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Bye bye Kenny (part 2)!!!!!

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Really thanks for that infomation...You are missing my point Kenny deserves time no manager bring instant success not even that prick at Madrid

And funnily enough most of that Chelsea team were bought by that prick and have been together for years.

We were close to going out of business are are taking the right steps to build a stable football club that will generate enough revenue to bring success on the pitch. Give me afew years of steady development that will ensure long term success instead of the Chelsea model, but that is just me I guess most of the Sky generation prefer instant success.

And I would never want players like Terry or Drogba near LFC cheating tossers who have helped ruin the game. The state of Drogba pretending to be injured today to waste time that isnt how I would want to see my team winning games

You seem to think there is no middle ground between instant success and a painful slide into mediocrity. Most people would happily accept a gradual improvement, or even a slight disimprovement if you can see that its for the best in the long run. Unfortunately we are in a situation where the manager doesnt seem to have any cohesive plan and the results have been dreadful for at least 6 months.

Its easy to dismiss the criticisms aimed at Kenny on the basis of fickle fans demanding "instant success" but in truth very few people expected that, what they did expect is that given the level of investment the team would improve, by any logical assessment that hasnt happened, in fact its been the opposite, people are entitled to question the manager now, if your not worried about the direction he is taking the club then your not paying attention.
 
You seem to think there is no middle ground between instant success and a painful slide into mediocrity. Most people would happily accept a gradual improvement, or even a slight disimprovement if you can see that its for the best in the long run. Unfortunately we are in a situation where the manager doesnt seem to have any cohesive plan and the results have been dreadful for at least 6 months.

Its easy to dismiss the criticisms aimed at Kenny on the basis of fickle fans demanding "instant success" but in truth very few people expected that, what they did expect is that given the level of investment the team would improve, by any logical assessment that hasnt happened, in fact its been the opposite, people are entitled to question the manager now, if your not worried about the direction he is taking the club then your not paying attention.
That's a well written post.

Except I disagree that the club has gone backwards or as you put it not improved. You see, painful as it sounds, the league is not the only gauge to how well the club is doing. Yes, this season has been woeful and if you look at the league alone then yes the club has gone backwards but the league is not the only barometer to a club going forward. The Carling Cup win and getting to the final of the FA Cup are signs that there is improvement. These are small factors but that is important. There are signs that the reserves and the academy has a good crop of youngsters coming through. This is also an improvement but, possibly, also a small one. But the major improvement is the structure of the club. We have owners that, although are new to the footballing world, are way better than what we have had before in that they have a plan. We have a very low debt and that is soooooo important bordering on vital. New sponsors starting next season (Warrior) and those already with us (Standard Charter) so we have the financials to execute that plan.
So it's a case of getting the right personnel to execute that plan. Yes, we can question Kenny's position but I think the small improvements (Carling Cup and FA Cup) and some of his transfers, his 2 year contract and his history with the club gives him next season to see if he can pull it of.

Overall, we've improved as club, not a huge step and certainly not visibly as in league position but imho there is improvement.
 
we have improved as a club, certainly, how much of that can be attributed to the manager im not sure

what the manager does control is the team, and I dont think we have improved as a team, not in terms of personnel or results
 
Have the team and tactics improved over the course of the season? Have we improved the first team with our signigs?
The answer to that is no, and yes with 1-2 of them.

Imho I cant decide if he should stay on, I love him to death but cant take on more season like this in the league.
 
Apparently Downing created 53 scoring chances, highest in the league.
Next highest was in the low 30's.
I'd give Kenny another season, hire some cunt for the summer who can spot players that can score goals.
 
I think we blew it big time this season, and will continue to believe so. Chelsea had played 10 more games than us this season before yesterdays final. For the first 60 mins it looked the opposite.

With the investment made in the team, no European football as a distraction and the othe top teams having serious issues, finishing 8th or lower is a disaster. Its a clusterfuck of proportions.

5 home wins. Lowest goal and point tally in 60 years. How do you excuse those facts, you just cant.

We've beaten Wolves, QPR, Everton, Bolton and Newcastle at home. 1 home win in 2012 and relegation form since Christmas.
Its so poor its beyond belief. Its a tragedy tbh.
 
we essentially put all our eggs in the 'cups basket'.

next season the key players in the team shouldn't be risked in cup competitions, frankly it's not worth it.
 
we have improved as a club, certainly, how much of that can be attributed to the manager im not sure

what the manager does control is the team, and I dont think we have improved as a team, not in terms of personnel or results

The improvement in the club as a whole is overwhelmingly down to Kenny's arrival to replace Hodgson. Kenny's made mistakes and next season we have to show a major improvement on the field, but it was Kenny who lifted the gloom and got us back on track in the first place.
 
Apparently Downing created 53 scoring chances, highest in the league.
Next highest was in the low 30's.
I'd give Kenny another season, hire some cunt for the summer who can spot players that can score goals.
He was also in the PL's all time top 10 list of most chances created. Ergo he was as creative as the likes of Ronaldo, Henry, Cantona, Bergkamp. Too bad he's played with shit finishers his entire career.
 
The improvement in the club as a whole is overwhelmingly down to Kenny's arrival to replace Hodgson.

How so?

The only thing it's changed is "attitude towards the manager". If anything the fans were more united under Roy because no one wanted him to stay
 
The improvement in the club as a whole is overwhelmingly down to Kenny's arrival to replace Hodgson. Kenny's made mistakes and next season we have to show a major improvement on the field, but it was Kenny who lifted the gloom and got us back on track in the first place.
JJ, I generally have a lot of time for your opinion, but that's absolute outlandish. The off-field problems at the club were taken care of by the arrival of the new owners, and the strides the club has taken in improving its position commercially, is down Ayre and co. There has often been of a suggestion that the club was in turmoil on the football pitch for years during the Hicks era, and that Kenny has done a tremendous job in fixing that, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Barring an aberration of 6 months of having the worst manager in our history managing us, and making us look like a joke, there was hardly any sort of crisis at the club footballing-wise. It is obviously to Kenny's credit that he lifted the mood once Hodgson left, but to be honest, I could've been appointed as Liverpool's manager and generated optimism amongst the fans just because it meant getting shut of Hodgson. Also, the kind of optimism that Kenny's appointment brought about would never have been there had it not coincided with new owners taking over and wiping away the crippling debt burden at the club.

Footballing wise, the quality in the squad was stronger 2 years ago. While the effort in clearing the deadwood last summer was tremendous, the idea of adding quality and reducing the wage-bill has woefully backfired as we've loaded the side with a bunch of expensive mid-table talent. We've just gone sideways since the days of Rafa, and it's pitiful given the fact that the new owners gave us a clean slate financially to work with.
 
I'll slate the post when he's explained it if the reasoning is bad

I cannot see where he's coming from at all
 
The improvement in the club as a whole is overwhelmingly down to Kenny's arrival to replace Hodgson. Kenny's made mistakes and next season we have to show a major improvement on the field, but it was Kenny who lifted the gloom and got us back on track in the first place.

I would say its more due to John Henry than Kenny Dalglish
 
We don't have a clean slate to work with financially

it's exactly the same as it ever was
 
Procured the accounts yet? If there's no long-term debt on the books, it's a significant improvement, surely.

No I haven't.

but there still is long term debt on the club, and when it was a larger figure it didn't interfere with the day to day running of the club because of the 150m that the two goons lent the club (which will never be repaid - hence the "epic swindle"). The interest on the debt was something like 115m, which came out of that 150m and the remainder subsidised the ordinary losses of the club.
 
JJ, I generally have a lot of time for your opinion, but that's absolute outlandish. The off-field problems at the club were taken care of by the arrival of the new owners, and the strides the club has taken in improving its position commercially, is down Ayre and co. There has often been of a suggestion that the club was in turmoil on the football pitch for years during the Hicks era, and that Kenny has done a tremendous job in fixing that, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Barring an aberration of 6 months of having the worst manager in our history managing us, and making us look like a joke, there was hardly any sort of crisis at the club footballing-wise. It is obviously to Kenny's credit that he lifted the mood once Hodgson left, but to be honest, I could've been appointed as Liverpool's manager and generated optimism amongst the fans just because it meant getting shut of Hodgson. Also, the kind of optimism that Kenny's appointment brought about would never have been there had it not coincided with new owners taking over and wiping away the crippling debt burden at the club.

Footballing wise, the quality in the squad was stronger 2 years ago. While the effort in clearing the deadwood last summer was tremendous, the idea of adding quality and reducing the wage-bill has woefully backfired as we've loaded the side with a bunch of expensive mid-table talent. We've just gone sideways since the days of Rafa, and it's pitiful given the fact that the new owners gave us a clean slate financially to work with.

I likewise have a lot of time for your opinion and that of the other posters who've taken issue with me on this, but the whole lot of you have missed the point. Of course the change of ownership helped (I was one of many who followed the court case on here all through the day) but as long as Hodgson was in place we were going to stay stuck in mediocrity on the pitch, and in those circumstances NOTHING that happened off the pitch would have been enough to blow away the clouds over the club and get it moving again. It took Kenny not only to do that but to do it in double-quick time.

As for the mistakes in the market last summer, (a) I acknowledged in my own post that they'd been made, but in any case (b) Carroll's performance yesterday should have reminded everyone that there's a real danger of writing some of those players off too soon. I myself have been guilty of it where he's concerned.
 
We pay 3 mill a year interest now, compared to 18 mill before Henry and co. Thats an improvement. The 25 % increase in commercial revenue also puts us in a better position.
 
I would say its more due to John Henry than Kenny Dalglish

Henry had no effect on team morale. No doubt he made the accountants happy. Maybe they should build a statue, put that slogan on the front and put it next to the one of Shanks.
 
I have just had an image spring to mind of a statue of the Lizard King, arms aloft, with "He made the accountants happy" beneath.😱
 
just out of curiosity, regardless of what people want, do you think the owners will want to keep kenny? they seem pretty ruthless, was them sacking commolli a sign of saying theyll stick with kenny or a warning?
 
This is just ridiculous. Virtually all the improvements in the state of the club since H&G left have had nothing to do Kenny. The only thing I can think of is that the players look a bit happier, but then that would've happened with most of the credible managers we could've appointed.
 
This is just ridiculous. Virtually all the improvements in the state of the club since H&G left have had nothing to do Kenny. The only thing I can think of is that the players look a bit happier, but then that would've happened with most of the credible managers we could've appointed.

You should try asking people who actually work at the club. They'd soon disabuse you of that opinion. Seriously.
 
The owners do seem wedded to the DOF model, and they got rid of Comolli because he didn't strike them as having enough about him to play a leading role, so they probably will want a stronger figure as his successor. However, if they were going to dispense with Kenny's services at this stage they'd surely have done it at the same time as letting Comolli go. I do think though that they'll tell him it's one of the CL league places or bust, and fair enough too.
 
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