Can he fix it?

[Frogfish]

Rodgers on Can:

"He is a multi-functional player that can play in any of those three midfield positions. And he played at centre-half at Bayer Leverkusen and played in the Champions League at left-back, so he's a footballer who will do very well for us."

So BR loves the fact EC can play multiple positions - he most definitely signed him because of his flexibility - but didn't sign him as an out and out CB. Keni said it above, you can't play Can as a CB when you have actual CBs fit and able to play, it would destroy team unity, never mind massive loss of confidence, which is the one thing this team needs more than anything else at present.

BR was almost certainly only mentioning EC can play at CB/LB as a last resort, in the event of an emergency (as in multiple CBs/LBs injured or in actual play when all our subs are used up but Can is on the pitch when a CB has to leave the field due to a Red Card or injury) !

 

[Delinquent]

As far as I can see he was only mentioning it to highlight Can's versatility. I don't think he ever had any intention of playing him there.

 

[leftpeg]

So having initially denied Rodgers ever said it (and being proved wrong) you're now choosing your own interpretation of his words. Let's gloss over that and return to the more substantive point...

You said it...in the event of an emergency. If our defending in recent weeks hasn't been a fucking train wreck with bodies and wreckage strewn everywhere then I don't know the meaning of the word emergency.

 

[leftpeg]

As far as I can see he was only mentioning it to highlight Can's versatility. I don't think he ever had any intention of playing him there.

I'll say it again...I don't think he bought him to play at CB. Nor do I think he spent all of those millions on Lovren to see him play like this and then drop him after a dozen or so games. My point is Lovren is having a nightmare time and we either put up with it and have our season wrecked before Christmas with Christ only knows the impact on lovren's own confidence...or we take the lad out for a while and try something different with a guy who has experience in the position and on whom the expectations/pressure will be lower.

 

[Frogfish]

So having initially denied Rodgers ever said it (and being proved wrong) you're now choosing your own interpretation of his words. Let's gloss over that and return to the more substantive point...

You said it...in the event of an emergency. If our defending in recent weeks hasn't been a fucking train wreck with bodies and wreckage strewn everywhere then I don't know the meaning of the word emergency.

I said "I doubt" .. since when is that a denial ?!

I gave you two good examples of an emergency, our current form does not constitute an emergency of that magnitude .... and you'd stick Can in at CB and destroy whatever confidence / team spirit remains ? Managerial quality right there 😉

 

[Frogfish]

I'll say it again...I don't think he bought him to play at CB. Nor do I think he spent all of those millions on Lovren to see him play like this and then drop him after a dozen or so games. My point is Lovren is having a nightmare time and we either put up with it and have our season wrecked before Christmas with Christ only knows the impact on lovren's own confidence...or we take the lad out for a while and try something different with a guy who has experience in the position and on whom the expectations/pressure will be lower.

Sakho.

 

[Delinquent]

I'll say it again...I don't think he bought him to play at CB. Nor do I think he spent all of those millions on Lovren to see him play like this and then drop him after a dozen or so games. My point is Lovren is having a nightmare time and we either put up with it and have our season wrecked before Christmas with Christ only knows the impact on lovren's own confidence...or we take the lad out for a while and try something different with a guy who has experience in the position and on whom the expectations/pressure will be lower.

I can see why you're suggesting it - I just don't think your reasoning holds for reasons already cited by keni and co. What's more, whilst I agree that that expectations would be lower on Can at centre half (although I don't agree about the pressure), the main reason for that is that he's a 20-year-old midfield player who has only played a handful of games there in his career. I think this kind of twisted logic is symptomatic of a team in disarray - we begin to over-complicate things and come up with increasingly 'creative' solutions. For me, the answer is to return to the basics. Put your best eleven out there and tell them to keep things simple and not concede. Temporarily rain in some of the adventure (which isn't bearing fruit anyway) and build some confidence in the defensive unit.

Funnily enough, I feel like Rodgers has been trying to do this in the last couple of league games - we just got undone by Moreno's mistake on Saturday.

 

[Mors]

I'm not sure why he gets a start next to skrtel for a start. Skrtel has been just as shite as the rest of them for me, they're all bad.
But no, I've seen nothing of can to prove that he should be playing at cb. The way he likes to get forward he might turn into another Agger/luiz

 

[Wizardry]

Have a look at our back four. Lovren last season was a great CB and anyone would have thought he was a good pick-up. Moreno, Johnson - even a young Manquillo - none would look out of place in a top European team. Skrtel, he's got critics but he's been, overall, a good player for us. Either they've all fallen apart simultaneously or the problem lies elsewhere. The problems in our defense lie at opposite ends of the pitch IMO.

We get the front five working closer to the level of last season and sort out our problem between the sticks and I think our defense will improve massively.

I think they're under more sustained attack and pressure than at any stage last season.

 

[leftpeg]

Put your best eleven out there and tell them to keep things simple and not concede.

You're right...I don't know why nobody has thought of that before.

 

[leftpeg]

Sakho.

If Sakho is the answer, we're fucked by the question.

 

[Delinquent]

You're right...I don't know why nobody has thought of that before.

It's very easy to take sentences out of their context and make them look silly.

The point I was making (which I'm sure didn't escape you), is that we need to change the attacking emphasis, at least while we stabilise the defence. I'm not suggesting that Brendan just tells them to defend better (which funnily enough appears to have been the extent of his approach thus far!) - I'm saying he needs to set the team up to defend first and foremost. It's not the personnel, it's the philosophy.

 

[Glock21]

I still see you children haven't change eh?

This isn't FM and secondly Can is just an average midfielder to begin with. Why the fcuk do you want an average midfielder to play at CB?

Laughable! Behave!

 

[Glock21]

If Sakho is the answer, we're fucked by the question.

Sakho is better than Lovren. You don't know shit do you? Sit down.

 

[mark1975]

Can should be given a run in the DM role, we kapt our only recent clean sheet with him there. He's young, dynamic and a big athletic lad. Countering the original point with "play Lucas" is selective reasoning, given we've continued to get ove ran in midfield while still pissing goals when he has played.

 

[cloggypop]

We don't play with a DM role.

 

[mark1975]

pedant!

He is a more natural defender, is good in the air, quick and strong. I'd rather see him dropping in between the centre halves than anyone else.

 

[Glock21]

Can should be given a run in the DM role, we kapt our only recent clean sheet with him there. He's young, dynamic and a big athletic lad. Countering the original point with "play Lucas" is selective reasoning, given we've continued to get ove ran in midfield while still pissing goals when he has played.

He's too slow. Will be ready next season. Let him get used to the pace in reserves.

 

[Buddha]

Just when I thought this season couldn't get any worse, gCock is back posting.

Great.

 

[Jerry Laser]

We need a coach who knows how to defend that would be a start

I for one don't know why we didn't try to get Hansen or Carra in as defensive coach.

 

[Wizardry]

It's very easy to take sentences out of their context and make them look silly.

The point I was making (which I'm sure didn't escape you), is that we need to change the attacking emphasis, at least while we stabilise the defence. I'm not suggesting that Brendan just tells them to defend better (which funnily enough appears to have been the extent of his approach thus far!) - I'm saying he needs to set the team up to defend first and foremost. It's not the personnel, it's the philosophy.

So I'm going to disagree with that a little, Del - the part in bold.

The strengths of the squad are movement and attack; we didn't support that enough during the last transfer window but that's the future the clubs aiming for and the way they train. The defense will improve if our attack improves. Trying to set us up to defend now would, IMO, simply counteract all the work that the coaching staff have been putting in for the last two years. I also don't believe that's the way forward if we want to be truly successful. It's the way to stay in the premier league (ala Stoke and Palace last season) but not the way to win it.

We look miles away from our philosophy right now. Sturridge is not going to fix it but he will help it and I think be enough to change the mind set of the players which is too negative at the moment. To be honest I think the more we try to set ourselves up to defend the worse the results will become.

 

[Glock21]

I for one don't know why we didn't try to get Hansen or Carra in as defensive coach.

Wouldn't change anything either. Lovren has been fucking ridiculous since he joined and and Skrtle back to his old self, perhaps because of having Lovren as partner.

 

[jexykrodic]

I think we should probably calm down and let the management team work with the players in a methodical way to get a better understanding.

Chopping and changing each game should be avoided unless injury intervenes. I can't believe how jumpy people get, we're seventh in the league and have one defeat in the last five games.

Confidence will return when we start scoring more and Studge's return will help that.

 

[leftpeg]

I think this option has its merits and I've enjoyed the debate even though I've been in a majority of one. However if I'd known this was going to bring Glock out of the woodwork I would never have posted it. Apologies to you all.

 

[Glock21]

I think we should probably calm down and let the management team work with the players in a methodical way to get a better understanding.

Chopping and changing each game should be avoided unless injury intervenes. I can't believe how jumpy people get, we're seventh in the league and have one defeat in the last five games.

Confidence will return when we start scoring more and Studge's return will help that.

So 10 games the management couldn't get the best out of the team and how long more should we wait? Until 20 more games when we are near the relegation zone?

 

[jexykrodic]

So 10 games the management couldn't get the best out of the team and how long more should we wait? Until 20 more games when we are near the relegation zone?

Well, personally I've been waiting for 24 years for a manager and his staff to get the best out of the team sufficient to win the league, so 20 more games seems like a drop in the ocean.

By the way, it may have escaped your notice, but we're 7th and not near the relegation zone and are ahead of United, Spurs and Everton who form most of our rivals. We're also 3 points off a CL spot at present.

 

[Delinquent]

So I'm going to disagree with that a little, Del - the part in bold.

The strengths of the squad are movement and attack; we didn't support that enough during the last transfer window but that's the future the clubs aiming for and the way they train. The defense will improve if our attack improves. Trying to set us up to defend now would, IMO, simply counteract all the work that the coaching staff have been putting in for the last two years. I also don't believe that's the way forward if we want to be truly successful. It's the way to stay in the premier league (ala Stoke and Palace last season) but not the way to win it.

We look miles away from our philosophy right now. Sturridge is not going to fix it but he will help it and I think be enough to change the mind set of the players which is too negative at the moment. To be honest I think the more we try to set ourselves up to defend the worse the results will become.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't want to see the team become defensively oriented in the long term. I just think in the short term it wouldn't hurt to secure a few clean sheets and build some confidence in the defensive unit. We need to be able to trust the defence to have a springboard to attack from. We can't simply rely on outgunning teams, particularly now that we don't have the firepower. I think most would agree (despite our achievements last season) that we haven't quite got the balance right yet.

I certainly agree that we look miles from our philosophy currently. We're not doing any of the things that made us successful last season. There is no intensity and the team looks crippled by fear, which is the polar opposite of how Brendan describes his philosophy, and precisely why I think we need to go back to the basics. Closing down the man in possession; covering our full backs when they're up the field; attacking the ball from set plays. We are forever leaving ourselves exposed with easily avoidable errors. I'm not suggesting Rodgers morphs himself into Rafa, heaven forbid. Nor am I suggesting that he abandons his philosophy completely. He just needs to temper it with some defensive solidity.