Sell Agger and replace him with Subotic or Hummels, then i won't complain...anything else will be a backwards move..
Dan Agger - A football thread
- Thread starter the_khl
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Likely to sign a new contract?
Just what I've heard today, could be bullshit, looks like the club are starting to make moves on all fronts now players are back from the Olympics etc. Hopefully we'll have more of an idea about what's going on over a couple ins and outs by the weekend. Suarez signed up, Bellamy more or less confirmed as gone, so things are starting to happen. Things are starting to get busy.
Cheers for the info
to be fair didnt they pay off our massive debt?
Ok - so you heard this but what does it all mean - are getting players in before we sell ? - Don't quite understand its just too confusing and slow. Let us know the full details Mark.
Yeah, but that was the purchase price for the club, which was, comparative to other clubs in the PL, bargain basement price.
Imagine if we sign a couple of players without selling anyone. Some on here will have a heartattack.
T
the_khl
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*joins in on Hanserns line of positive thinking*
Christian Eriksen didn't play the Super Cup in Holland last weekend you know, an event that obviously has influenced Suarez setting pen on a new contract and Agger looking so cheerful in training today. They know.
They've also not given any allowance for the fact he's Danish in those stats.
Madness.
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the_khl
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Criminal.
Was not demanding anything i never do.
Rodgers has said that he is under no obligation to sell agger but that every player has his price and you can never say never
Daniel Agger, more style than substance?
Daniel Agger is a fantastic football player. Daniel Agger is slick and stylish on the ball. Daniel Agger, some say, is a modern-day Alan Hansen. But Daniel Agger gets injured, and gets injured a lot. The speculation is, Man City might be willing to pay £20 million plus for him. So the question is; does it make sense, financially or football-wise, to keep a player who in the last four seasons has started on average 18.5 leagues games per year? Furthermore, and a more pertinent question, is Daniel Agger more style over substance?
As I said above Agger averaged 18.5 starts per year over the last 4 seasons, Skrtel 26.75 starts and Carragher 30.5 starts. When you break that down into percentages of games played, it looks even paltrier. Percentages of games started: Agger = 48.68% | Skrtel = 70.39% | Carragher = 80.26%.
Average Time On Pitch - Last 4 Seasons
Based on time played alone, there is a serious question mark over whether you should keep a 28 year old player who is averaging playing less than half your league games each season. That is before we even consider football ability. But what of that football ability, compared to Carragher and Skrtel how do Agger’s statistics match up over these last four seasons?
Daniel Agger is not what you might call a battling centre back. He is not the type of defender that will fly into tackles, throw himself around the pitch and bully an opposition centre forward into submission. He is a defender who likes to stay on his feet, jockey a player, trying to nick the ball from him, or stand back and read the game and make a well-timed interception. Having said that let us take a look at his “battling accuracies”.
Battling Percentages - Average Last 4 Seasons
Remember these are averaged out over the last four Premiership seasons. The cells in red are those statistics which come out top on a certain row, with yellow being the worst statistic. It’s quite evident that Martin Skrtel has been our best battling defender over the last four years. He tops every statistic bar ‘Ground Duel Win %’. But we’re more concerned about Agger in this piece. And although we all ready mentioned he’s not that type of defender, nevertheless, it’s surprising he doesn’t come out top in at least one metric, particularly the final two metrics. In fact, only 56.48% of his total clearances are accurate, which is a lower percentage than both Carragher and Skrtel. For a player who’s known for being stylish and cultured you’d expect him to be more accurate in those last two stats on the table.
Of course, there’s more to being stylish and cultured than getting your clearances accurate. Passing accuracy being one. And as a ‘passing defender’ you’d expect him to be influential in those areas. How many times have we seen Daniel Agger striding from the back with the ball at his feet, gliding into the opposition half and slaloming between opposing players. And how many times have we seen Daniel Agger spray the ball out wide with a 60 yard pass to a team-mate hugging the touchline. A lot you might think. It is the quintessential Daniel Agger image burned into your brain. Well it doesn’t happen as often as you may think.
Passing - Average Over Last 4 Seasons
Agger is not the most accurate passer of our centre halves in focus, that crown goes to Skrtel with an 83.25% passing accuracy over the last four seasons. Neither is Agger our centre half who is most accurate with his long balls, again that is Skrtel with a 68% accuracy. And what about Agger striding from the back into the opposition half and setting up lightning attacks? Well Jaime Carragher has passed more often in the attacking half than Agger over the last four years. Attempting an attacking half pass every 4.88 minutes compared to Agger’s 5.31 minutes. So far, from both tables, and out of nine metrics analysed Agger only comes out (joint) top on one of them. In a strange statistical quirk, all three centre backs have an identical minute per pass attempt rate. I ask again; Daniel Agger; is he more style over substance?
From our ‘battling’ table above we know Agger is not the most accurate with his tackles, ground duels and clearances etc. But what of his influence in this area? How often, per time spent on the pitch does he attempt one of these battling statistics? For a player more known for his passing ability than getting down and dirty with opponents you’d expect not very often. Well again, you’d be surprised.
Minutes Per Battling Metrics - Average Last 4 Seasons
Jaime Carragher certainly might be showing his age here, taking longer to be involved in 7 out of the 8 metrics anaylsed on the table. However, Daniel Agger has plenty of red in his column. You’d expect him to attempt an interception more often than his colleagues, as he does read the game from the back very well. Last year Agger recorded an interception every 36.29 minutes, of all central defenders to start 19 games or more last season only Roger Johnson (33.66), Antolin Alcaraz (33.45), Sylvain Distin (33.09), James Morrison (32.80) and Laurent Koscielny (31.58) made interceptions more often. But perhaps you wouldn’t expect Agger to be involved in ground duels, aerial duels and challenges more often than both Skrtel and Carragher, but he is. A little more substance than style from Daniel Agger here.
Along with passing statistics, what else would you expect Agger to thrive on, given the type of player he is. Possession; how often does Agger lose possession and win possession?
Minutes Per Possession Won/Lost
Agger won possession back last season in the defensive third every 30.15 minutes. Both Carragher and Skrtel won possession back in this area more often given the amount of time each spent on the pitch. Taking into account that Agger’s win percentages in ground duels and tackles etc (a big part of how you may win possession back as a defender) weren’t quite high maybe this is not so surprising. Agger comes out tops in the final metric, only losing possession every 9.82 minutes last season, compared to Jaime Carragher who lost possession every 8.33 minutes. An ability which could come in very useful in a Brendan Rodgers possession-based first eleven.
Out of 18 metrics analysed in the above tables, Daniel Agger came out a clear winner in 5 of that 18. Four of those five metrics were what you might call ‘battling statistics’, and referred to how often he was involved in them compared to his colleagues, the other metric was possession related. Skrtel was a clear winner in 10 of those stats measured, and Jaime Carragher coming out top in two, the other statistic (pass attempt per minute) was jointly won by all three.
None of Agger’s ‘accuracies’ were anything to get excited about, passing, long ball, ground duels, tackles, aerial duels, clearances etc were all mediocre to say the least. However, he did excel in minutes per ground duels, aerial duels, interceptions and challenges.
Taking all that into account, if you never seen Daniel Agger play, and you looked at those statistics, you’d determine he was more a battling centre half than a ball-playing centre half. So, is there a myth around this notion? And is Daniel Agger more style than substance? Or rather, more substance than style, based on these findings? And is it worth turning down £20 million plus for a player who had averaged starting 18.5 games per season over the last four seasons? You decide.
Daniel Agger is a fantastic football player. Daniel Agger is slick and stylish on the ball. Daniel Agger, some say, is a modern-day Alan Hansen. But Daniel Agger gets injured, and gets injured a lot. The speculation is, Man City might be willing to pay £20 million plus for him. So the question is; does it make sense, financially or football-wise, to keep a player who in the last four seasons has started on average 18.5 leagues games per year? Furthermore, and a more pertinent question, is Daniel Agger more style over substance?
As I said above Agger averaged 18.5 starts per year over the last 4 seasons, Skrtel 26.75 starts and Carragher 30.5 starts. When you break that down into percentages of games played, it looks even paltrier. Percentages of games started: Agger = 48.68% | Skrtel = 70.39% | Carragher = 80.26%.
Average Time On Pitch - Last 4 Seasons
Based on time played alone, there is a serious question mark over whether you should keep a 28 year old player who is averaging playing less than half your league games each season. That is before we even consider football ability. But what of that football ability, compared to Carragher and Skrtel how do Agger’s statistics match up over these last four seasons?
Daniel Agger is not what you might call a battling centre back. He is not the type of defender that will fly into tackles, throw himself around the pitch and bully an opposition centre forward into submission. He is a defender who likes to stay on his feet, jockey a player, trying to nick the ball from him, or stand back and read the game and make a well-timed interception. Having said that let us take a look at his “battling accuracies”.
Battling Percentages - Average Last 4 Seasons
Remember these are averaged out over the last four Premiership seasons. The cells in red are those statistics which come out top on a certain row, with yellow being the worst statistic. It’s quite evident that Martin Skrtel has been our best battling defender over the last four years. He tops every statistic bar ‘Ground Duel Win %’. But we’re more concerned about Agger in this piece. And although we all ready mentioned he’s not that type of defender, nevertheless, it’s surprising he doesn’t come out top in at least one metric, particularly the final two metrics. In fact, only 56.48% of his total clearances are accurate, which is a lower percentage than both Carragher and Skrtel. For a player who’s known for being stylish and cultured you’d expect him to be more accurate in those last two stats on the table.
Of course, there’s more to being stylish and cultured than getting your clearances accurate. Passing accuracy being one. And as a ‘passing defender’ you’d expect him to be influential in those areas. How many times have we seen Daniel Agger striding from the back with the ball at his feet, gliding into the opposition half and slaloming between opposing players. And how many times have we seen Daniel Agger spray the ball out wide with a 60 yard pass to a team-mate hugging the touchline. A lot you might think. It is the quintessential Daniel Agger image burned into your brain. Well it doesn’t happen as often as you may think.
Passing - Average Over Last 4 Seasons
Agger is not the most accurate passer of our centre halves in focus, that crown goes to Skrtel with an 83.25% passing accuracy over the last four seasons. Neither is Agger our centre half who is most accurate with his long balls, again that is Skrtel with a 68% accuracy. And what about Agger striding from the back into the opposition half and setting up lightning attacks? Well Jaime Carragher has passed more often in the attacking half than Agger over the last four years. Attempting an attacking half pass every 4.88 minutes compared to Agger’s 5.31 minutes. So far, from both tables, and out of nine metrics analysed Agger only comes out (joint) top on one of them. In a strange statistical quirk, all three centre backs have an identical minute per pass attempt rate. I ask again; Daniel Agger; is he more style over substance?
From our ‘battling’ table above we know Agger is not the most accurate with his tackles, ground duels and clearances etc. But what of his influence in this area? How often, per time spent on the pitch does he attempt one of these battling statistics? For a player more known for his passing ability than getting down and dirty with opponents you’d expect not very often. Well again, you’d be surprised.
Minutes Per Battling Metrics - Average Last 4 Seasons
Jaime Carragher certainly might be showing his age here, taking longer to be involved in 7 out of the 8 metrics anaylsed on the table. However, Daniel Agger has plenty of red in his column. You’d expect him to attempt an interception more often than his colleagues, as he does read the game from the back very well. Last year Agger recorded an interception every 36.29 minutes, of all central defenders to start 19 games or more last season only Roger Johnson (33.66), Antolin Alcaraz (33.45), Sylvain Distin (33.09), James Morrison (32.80) and Laurent Koscielny (31.58) made interceptions more often. But perhaps you wouldn’t expect Agger to be involved in ground duels, aerial duels and challenges more often than both Skrtel and Carragher, but he is. A little more substance than style from Daniel Agger here.
Along with passing statistics, what else would you expect Agger to thrive on, given the type of player he is. Possession; how often does Agger lose possession and win possession?
Minutes Per Possession Won/Lost
Agger won possession back last season in the defensive third every 30.15 minutes. Both Carragher and Skrtel won possession back in this area more often given the amount of time each spent on the pitch. Taking into account that Agger’s win percentages in ground duels and tackles etc (a big part of how you may win possession back as a defender) weren’t quite high maybe this is not so surprising. Agger comes out tops in the final metric, only losing possession every 9.82 minutes last season, compared to Jaime Carragher who lost possession every 8.33 minutes. An ability which could come in very useful in a Brendan Rodgers possession-based first eleven.
Out of 18 metrics analysed in the above tables, Daniel Agger came out a clear winner in 5 of that 18. Four of those five metrics were what you might call ‘battling statistics’, and referred to how often he was involved in them compared to his colleagues, the other metric was possession related. Skrtel was a clear winner in 10 of those stats measured, and Jaime Carragher coming out top in two, the other statistic (pass attempt per minute) was jointly won by all three.
None of Agger’s ‘accuracies’ were anything to get excited about, passing, long ball, ground duels, tackles, aerial duels, clearances etc were all mediocre to say the least. However, he did excel in minutes per ground duels, aerial duels, interceptions and challenges.
Taking all that into account, if you never seen Daniel Agger play, and you looked at those statistics, you’d determine he was more a battling centre half than a ball-playing centre half. So, is there a myth around this notion? And is Daniel Agger more style than substance? Or rather, more substance than style, based on these findings? And is it worth turning down £20 million plus for a player who had averaged starting 18.5 games per season over the last four seasons? You decide.
T
the_khl
Guest
How do I put this eloquently....
What a load of agenda ridden crap.
No offence Mark of course, and as I reckon you are not the author I hope none is taken.
What a load of agenda ridden crap.
No offence Mark of course, and as I reckon you are not the author I hope none is taken.
i don't want to sell him. I know he has been out too often, but I have hopes that he will stay fit.
The reason I don't want to see him go to City is that he will strengthen them even more. Make them more impossible to catch up with. He is to me what a Liverpool player should be. He is a world class player, leading his country and having other clubs envy us for having him. He plays with pride and dignity and he stays cool. A good role model for the club. What is that worth in cash? I don't know. I thought Torres was the same, and I stil lthink he would be more worth to us than the cash we received. We sold a part of our soul that day, and we seem destined to keep chopping it up and sell it.
And there is this internal fear that selling Agger will give Carra a LOT of playing time this season, and based on last seaon I don't want that.... Sorry if it offends people, but he is becomming a weak point at the back.
The reason I don't want to see him go to City is that he will strengthen them even more. Make them more impossible to catch up with. He is to me what a Liverpool player should be. He is a world class player, leading his country and having other clubs envy us for having him. He plays with pride and dignity and he stays cool. A good role model for the club. What is that worth in cash? I don't know. I thought Torres was the same, and I stil lthink he would be more worth to us than the cash we received. We sold a part of our soul that day, and we seem destined to keep chopping it up and sell it.
And there is this internal fear that selling Agger will give Carra a LOT of playing time this season, and based on last seaon I don't want that.... Sorry if it offends people, but he is becomming a weak point at the back.
It was from ESPN mate, the stats are from Opta, I don't put too too much emphasis or importance in stats to be fair, I can see how good he is with my own eyes. It seems like a justification for letting him go, I think it's fair that he is not quite as Hollywood-esque as is sometimes made out and I think his injuries and subsequent lack of football have only given more weight to some of the exaggerations that surround him, but he's quality when fit and has a good partnership with Skrtel. We should keep our backbone at (almost) all costs.
So anyone who points out facts about Agger which you find uncomfortable is "agenda-driven"? Sorry, Kristian, but look who's talking.
I'd rather see us keep him though, whatever the fee, I'd like to see us keep our backbone. I understand that it would potentially benefit us in the shape of purchasing two or three players, but it's a big risk given our fantastic ability in the transfer market, and the price of players anyway. And if teams know you've just taken £25m off someone else, they know you've got the money to pay. It's a massive, massive risk.
Another reason it's all so frustrating is that we've got two or three really promising young CBs at the club who'd be ready to compete for a place by the time Agger's about 31-32, but are nowhere near ready now. We shouldn't bring in a young CB to block their progress, but I bet we don't go for an experienced one because if he's any good he'll cost about as much as we'll get for Agger, which kinda defeats the purpose.
T
the_khl
Guest
Agger got so much more to his game than a 66.2% successrate when it comes to upfield throw-ins in the 2/3's of the last quarter of the pitch you know.
Mark nailed it I guess, it looks like a bit of stats and numbers to easen to blow if we should sell. I get the injury-point, I really do, the rest of that article is just crap imo. It doesn't tell you anyhting about the players imo as there are so many outside factors to consider when it comes to football. It is not and will never be a sport where stats will have an important say imo. If you disagree fair does that's just how I see it though.
Stats can be applied and (ab)used just as subjectively as any other footballing argument.
He'll fill a gap.
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