Different Gravy
- Thread starter rurikbird
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I think we will know more during the summer with what type of purchases we get in MF
I'm guessing you're hinting at his drop off in the second half of the season. I've always thought he's a very talented player (even before this season), but I think the midfield definitely needs some consideration in the summer. He's got a lot of potential and maybe the inconsistency can simply be put down to getting accustomed to playing way more but I wouldn't bet the house on that first half of the season. We need another player that will provide a genuine option and allow us to rotate even if that player is "just" Bajcetic returning to the fold.
I wasn't even overly considering his form tbh. More the fact that we went from chasing a 60m zubimendi, worrying about the season, to no one mentioning DM as a problem area. I don't think bajcetic comes back as a viable bench option tbh. Just seems like there's been zero links to any DM, or any real midfield alternatives(maybe xabi Simons?). It's concerning
I'd like to see at least one Elliott, Chiesa or Endo sold and Bajectic brought back into the fold. If he gets back to his form under Klopp then I strongly believe the lad can excel under Arne. He's a perfect player to rotate with Grav in how Slot plays the six role and I'd find us a colossal waste of resources to block his progress when the opportunity is right there.
Bajcetic is also versatile - he started as a CB, made his debut for the 1st team as a CM (more of an #8 than a #6), covered for a few games at RB… There will be multiple opportunities for him to break through if he’s good enough.
Not sure you get multiple opportunities under Slot.
Quansah had 45 mins.
Chiesa who always looks at least the 2nd most threatening forward and scored within mins of coming on last time, hasn't started a league game i don't think...
Quansah had 45 mins.
Chiesa who always looks at least the 2nd most threatening forward and scored within mins of coming on last time, hasn't started a league game i don't think...
You have to be really careful overhauling a team too quickly with too many new players. You lose a lot of the benefits of a team that has been together a long time. Of course, don’t make those changes and you see a team struggle and morale and momentum drop.
We need a left back (not priority), a right back, a center half (of the Konate rumors are true).
We need another 6, to help Gravy as Endo is not trusted enough. I don’t think Sboz is good enough but that’s not a priority.
We need to replace Nunez, Djota, and either Gakpo or Diaz. But two out of four will do.
So priority signings…
Back up Right back, center back (if Konate gone)
#6 or utility midfielder
Two quality forwards
We need a left back (not priority), a right back, a center half (of the Konate rumors are true).
We need another 6, to help Gravy as Endo is not trusted enough. I don’t think Sboz is good enough but that’s not a priority.
We need to replace Nunez, Djota, and either Gakpo or Diaz. But two out of four will do.
So priority signings…
Back up Right back, center back (if Konate gone)
#6 or utility midfielder
Two quality forwards
I agree with you but unfortunately we lost that luxury by not being proactive. Also our signings have not quite worked out - Nunez, Jota to a certain degree.
We had to rebuild our midfield in one summer and we were able to do that thanks to Saudis paying us the money for Hendo and Fabinho. We got lucky. We may need to get lucky again - a decent sized bid for Nunez and Jota and Diaz to help with the new rebuild.
I think Gravy's comments about how things are more challenging now because other teams have adjusted is underemphasized. I think it has not only impacted Gravy, but also contributes to the malaise that everyone is experiencing lately. Right now, the results are good enough and we will win the league, but some re-invention will be necessary next year because teams have adapted to our style with some success.
#6 doesn't need in any way fixing.
We've seen how brilliant Gravy has been there this season. Teams have started targeting him which makes his job more difficult (and would be the same for anyone else coming in) but at the same time they can't do this without opening up other spaces for us so it's up to us (Slot) to best utilise that.
With Trent and Robbo we haven't been able to get the best out that extra space out wide (Trent because he isn't that driving/pacy player and Robbo because of age), though we've seen how it gives Macca more freedom with less pressure on him and how he has grown with it.
With Bradley/Frimpong on the right and maybe Kerkez on the left we should see an improvement and then doubt would creep into our opponents, if we are running riot down the wings, that in turn should free up more space for Gravy again. They can't keep that pressure on all over the pitch so something has to give.
Sorry don't agree with this at all.
The priority HAS to be LB - it's been a growing issue all season.
#6 not a priority in the slightest. I think Badger would be a great backup, better suited to our style than Endo.
In MF I wouldn't say no to a generational talent like Wirtz of course but otherwise I don't see any new starting players.
Frimpong is a done deal it seems, so RB (and Mo. backup for AFCON) is covered.
Konate will sign a new deal.
Nunez & Chiesa will go for sure, at least one replacement (David for example if we are spending most of our budget on Wirtz).
I'll add one proviso here : 4 CBs is not enough for a PL chasing team most seasons, we got lucky this one, and for a team fighting on all fronts it is a very dangerous situation to be in. 5 CBs are needed if we're to challenge on all fronts and in particular a dual PL+CL challenge.
You don't think we could get through another season without a LB change?
You think Arne will trust Badger?
Konate, yeah for sure. Agreed on Nunez. Is he gonna give Chiesa one pre season?
5 CBs would be interesting. Gomez included in that?
Don't usually disagree with you, me aul' mucker, but LB is absolutely our priority this summer. Robbo is as dead as that squirrel, and Costas just isn't a regular starter for a championship team... We've been vulnerable down that left channel for too long to let it go another season.
I think a championship team would be lucky to have Costas 😉
But yes. I'm all for change in that position. I don't think we will be better than young Robbo and Trent but I'm just looking forward to different. A rb that dribbles and overlaps, a left back that can shoot a ball. There are great great things about our fullbacks when they were at their best, but there are other great things in the world of football that they didn't do.
I was hoping to see a new team in terms of attacking fulcrum. We won't see that, but we can see all sorts of other changes elsewhere, and we need it, but apart from that, I'm just ready for it. We need new, and why not different.
Actually no I don't think we should start another season with either of Robbo / Tsimi as starter. We know age has robbed Robbo of his best assets and he is often a liability ( Tsimi is just not good enough to be our starting (LB).
We can not afford to have such an obvious weakness in the team - and it will only get worse without being rectified.
Badger : I don't know. He looks the part but we know what Slot is like if he doesn't fancy a player.
Chiesa is fit. If Slot's not playing him now then a preseason means nothing.
Yes I include Gomez in the five CBs.
Fair comment, you and Froggy have convinced me!
Have we ever had 5 CBs? Seems like it's usually 4 with one of those being a bit of a deadbeat.
I think the biggest issue at the back is Gomez never being fit. If we replaced him with someone fit I think we'd be fine.
I think the biggest issue at the back is Gomez never being fit. If we replaced him with someone fit I think we'd be fine.
Yes. Up to SEVEN. In fact every season under Klopp bar two. Deadbeats or not it means we can use them in early rounds of the cups and as emergency cover.
2023/4 (6) : VvD, Matip, Gomez, Konate, Quansah and Rhys Williams.
2022/3 (6) : VvD, Matip, Gomez, Konate, Philips and Rhys Williams.
2021/22 (5) : VvD, Matip, Gomez, Konate and Rhys Williams.
2020/21 (7) : VvD, Matip, Gomez, Kabak, Davies, Philips and Rhys Williams.
2017/18 (5) : VvD, Lovren, Matip, Gomez & Klavan.
2016/17 (7) : Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Gomez, Sakho, Iilori, Caulker.
Most top squads will have at least 5 CBs. We have been short this season and it wears on players - and we've been so lucky not to have multiple injuries to CBs that often.
That's highly selective.
You can't count dross like Rhys Williams.
I'm sure we could pull a name or two from the academy who'd be as useful as him. Endo is as useful as him.
Quansah wouldn't have been considered a senior player at the start of last season. Him being a useful 5th choice was just a timing thing really, as he came through and Matip went out.
20/21 we only had so many because 3 of the senior guys had season-ending injuries!!
4 senior and reasonably reliable CBs is fine. If one of the 4 is Gomez, then yeah I'd agree that's an issue and yes we did get a bit lucky this season effectively just relying on Konate and VVD.
Well YOU may not count dross like RW but Klopp did and played him (19 apps) so who's being selective? And he is a CB and only a CB - I could also count Fabinho and Henderson but that would be ... selective and it's why I don't count Endo.
And Quansah has 57 x 1st team appearances for us? So tell me again who's being 'selective? That's not pulling names from the academy because RW and co. WERE actual squad members.
Just because you don't like the names doesn't change the fact they were in the squad as CBs, played in cup matches and did a job in giving our regular CBs time off. So yes, up to 7 CBs in the squad and none were in the academy.
Agreed, we need to have at least 5 CB's.
4 senior CB's and a decent reserve/youth player would suffice.
The problem we're currently facing is that we don't really have any decent CB's in the reserves.
It's highly likely that Gomez will leave this summer, so we need to add another senior CB too.
I honestly think we need to find an English CB. Someone more long term. I'm not sure who though. Branthwait is the obvious choice but he's going to be tricky to get. I wish we'd take a punt on a young CB from the Championship.
Yeah Williams played in 2021 when we had all the injuries. Apart from that he was an irrelevance.
That evidence basically boils down to having some clogger like Nat Phillips or Klavan as 5th choice, instead of the next best from the academy. Do we need that extra man? It's an argument, but generally Phillips has made next to no appearances since he's had that role. If a player isn't getting any games I tend to think he's redundant.
I'm guessing we only had 4 in 2019 and 2020 btw, which would be why you've omitted them from your list. Basically we've always had 4 proper CB options and whichever useless reserves we happened to have hanging around for one reason or another, getting zero game time or being loaned out.
In saying all that, you really don’t want to rotate your CB’s much and try to stay with the same pairing as much as possible, particularly in the league - with the backups playing the domestic cup games, and some European ties.
4 senior CBs is enough - our problem has been we’ve had horrible injury records with the likes of Konate, Matip & Gomez.
Correct - and I literally told you that in the first sentence.
True we haven't been lucky with injuries.
Van Dijk is getting older and Konate is still around. We can afford to rotate our CB's more often if we had 4 decent ones. Klopp used to do it.
