Halfway point review and ratings

[rurikbird]

Tried to go over every player so far and be as objective as possible. Feel free to post your own ratings.

====================

Alisson 8.5 (18 starts, 13 goals conceded, 7 clean sheets) - continues to be the best in the world, making big saves look routine. A couple of unexpected wobbly games against Brighton and Man City probably cost us points, that’s why he is not 10/10.

Kelleher 5.5 (10 starts, 13 goals conceded, 2 clean sheets) - possibly a harsh rating given that we’ve progressed in all cups with Kelleher in goal and won both league games he started, but there is no denying that he soured his reputation by letting in several easy goals. There is now major doubt about him ever being good enough to be Alli’s successor.


Alexander-Arnold 7.5 (23 games, 8 assists, 2 goals) - the biggest tactical conundrum of 2023 Liverpool, playing in an ever-evolving hybrid RB/CM position and gradually transitioning into a midfielder. For all the legitimate conversations about the pros and cons of his tactical role, on an individual level he is undoubtedly having a good season, showing greater defensive responsibility, growing as a leader after getting the vice captaincy and producing a couple of match-winning displays. The only reason his rating is not higher is that it still doesn’t feel like his talent has been fully realized yet.

Robertson 6.5 (8 games, 0 assists, 1 goal) - started the season with more energy and authority than last year and managed to convince that it’s possible to complement Trent’s hybrid role defensively and also remain to be a factor in attack. Single-handedly won us a difficult game vs Wolves, where he also was a captain for the first time. The shoulder injury on Scotland duty robbed him of most of the season until now. Lack of assists is one possible area of concern.

Tsimikas 6.5 (17 games, 3 assists, 0 goals) - took a while to get going after stepping in for Robbo, but found his form in that 2nd half against Brentford and has been good since. Freak injury means he will miss most of the rest of the season, leaving us short at left-back.

Konate 6.0 (19 games, 1 assists, 0 goals) - showed glimpses of his high class, but in truth so far it’s been an indifferent season for Ibu. Lost his place to Matip in the early part of the season and continues to be rotated with Quansah in order to limit his workload.

Van Dijk 9 (19 games, 1 goal, 2 assists) - back to his imperious best as a defender and seems to be thriving as captain. Opposition players are starting to avoid him again; the fear factor is back. The only slight criticism is that he should be scoring more from set pieces given his physical dominance.

Matip 7 (14 games, 0 goals or assists). Legend, we’ll miss you this season.

Quansah 7.5 (15 games, 2 assists, 1 goal) - what a story and what an unexpected gift for the team! The lad takes everything in his stride, his calmness reminds people of both Matip and Van Dijk, he is technically gifted, which allowed him to meaningfully contribute in attack and physically he so far hasn’t been found wanting. The speed of his progress is beyond anyone’s wildest expectations and he is now legitimately not far behind Konate as 3rd choice CB.

Gomez 7 (15 games at RB, 4 at LB, 3 at CB, 2 assists) - another pleasant surprise! Started playing at full-back as a rotation player and gradually grew in confidence so much so that it’s hard to drop him now. Let’s hope Mr. Southgate forgot about his existence - no more international duty injuries please.

[Macca moved to Part 2]

=================
I’ll finish part 2 tomorrow.

 

[Dreambeliever]

You need to post your scale 1-10. Looks like a 6 is average?

 

[Modo]

I can nitpick but most of your ratings are spot on

 

[StevieM]

You need to post your scale 1-10. Looks like a 6 is average?

The scale will reveal itself when the rest of the scores are released.

So far - I think they’re fair with minor quibbles.

I’m a Mac A fan but I wouldn’t give him 7.5. I wouldn’t give Quansah 10 - he’s been good, not that good.

Robbo….. hmmmmm - it sure he’s worth a 6.5 and Konate a 6 - I’d swap them two around.

Minor Quibbles though - pretty fair other than Matip who’s getting a sympathy vote.

 

[binomial]

Ali - 9 / Kelleher - 6
Trent - 7 / Gomez 7.5
Matip - 8 / Konate 6.5
Virgil - 9 / Quansah 8
Robbo - 5 / Kostas 7
Mac - 6 / Endo 7.5
Szobo 7.5 / Harvey 7.5
Grav 7 / Jones 6
Salah 8.5
Nunez 7 / Gakpo 5
Diaz 5 / Jota 6.5

 

[moron]

Ali - 10 / Kelleher - 5
Trent - 8 / Gomez 8.5
Matip - 8 / Konate 8
Virgil - 9 / Quansah 8
Robbo - 7 / Kostas 7
Mac - 6.5 / Endo 7.5
Szobo 8.0 / Harvey 7.5
Grav 4 / Jones 10.5
Salah 8.0
Nunez 7 / Gakpo 5
Diaz 4.5 / Jota 7.5

Totally Unbiased review.

 

[Stevesquash]

Ali - 10 / Kelleher - 5
Trent - 8 / Gomez 8.5
Matip - 8 / Konate 8
Virgil - 9 / Quansah 8
Robbo - 7 / Kostas 7
Mac - 6.5 / Endo 7.5
Szobo 8.0 / Harvey 7.5
Grav 4 / Jones 10.5
Salah 8.0
Nunez 7 / Gakpo 5
Diaz 4.5 / Jota 7.5

Totally Unbiased review.

I feel these are the most accurate but would give grav 6, endo 8.5 and you've put the decimal place in the wrong place for jones, and 1.5 is too harsh - I'd go for 7.5

 

[KopRed]

I'll give Konate a higher score, just for his wholesome laughters.

 

[Squiggles]

Generally agree, but I'd put Gomez up to an eight. He couldn't have done much more than he has and he's put in decent performances across all positions of the back.

Kelleher has been muck. 4

 

[jan]

Great: Ali, Virgil, Salah, Matip (RIP)
Very good: Trent, Jones, Quansah, Gomez, Jota, Szob
Decent: Endo, Elliott, Tsimikas, Macca, Konate
Hit & miss: Nunez, Gakpo, Gravenberch, Robbo
Not good enough: Diaz, Kelleher

 

[rurikbird]

You need to post your scale 1-10. Looks like a 6 is average?

Yes, 1-10 with 6 as average. Standard stuff.

 

[bluebell]

How many points are we going to need to win the title?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yes, 1-10 with 6 as average. Standard stuff.

Lots too high in that case.
Have Robertson really been more than average for his ability?
Simi? No chance.
Virgil has been a lot better but 9.5? Can’t prescribe to that at all. He’s been 8.5 at most.
Quansah 10/10

 

[tombrown]

I really think we would benefit from a rigorous definition for each score in the 1-10 range. Can we add that to the list as next highest priority definition after "world class", but ahead of "generational"?

 

[rurikbird]

I really think we would benefit from a rigorous definition for each score in the 1-10 range. Can we add that to the list as next highest priority definition after "world class", but ahead of "generational"?

No.

 

[keniget]

He's almost guaranteed to get injured now that we're praising him but Gomez has been one of the surprises of the season so far. There were a couple moments at LB were I saw a player dribbling out of a tight spot only to realize it was Gomez and think damn, the guy is actually reasonably skillful when confidence is high.

 

[rurikbird]

I added some more stats for midfielders and moved Macca here. Games, goals and assists are listed for all comps; passing % etc is for EPL games only. Here is part 2 out of 3 - midfielders:

==================

MacAllister 7 (18 games, 2 assists, 1 golazo; passing 88.1%, key passes/90 0.6, tackles/90 2.2 - most in the team)
Most fans want to see him further forward and that creates a curious situation where he is simultaneously underrated for what he brings in a deeper midfield position and overrated for what he hypothetically brings as an attacking midfielder. I predicted his #6 role back in June and I think it is currently his most useful role in this team, although of course he can potentially play anywhere in midfield. We can debate his best tactical fit, but what’s clear is that he quickly became one of the leaders on and off the pitch. His versatility and tenacity were key in us getting through those games with 10 men, which set the tone for the season.

Endo 7 (23 games, 16 starts, 7 of them in the EPL, 2 goals, 1 assist; passing 85.7%, key passes/90 0.2, tackles/90 1.1)
Wataru-san is rapidly becoming one of my favourite players in the team; he is a great story and apparently also a great person as well as football player. It would be giving in too much to recency bias to give him more than 7 for the first half of the season overall, given that he started to be trusted in the most important games only in the last couple of weeks and understandably took some time to get used to the league.

Szoboszlai 8 (25 games, 4 goals, 3 assists; passing 87.6%, key passes/90 1.7 - just behind Trent and Salah, tackles/90 1.4). If you asked any fan to grade Szobo 2 months ago, he would almost certainly get 10/10 - his impact was being compared to Van Dijk and Salah in terms of drastically lifting the quality of the team and bringing winning mentality. In the last 2 months he’s been closer to 6/10 - still working hard, but creating far fewer chances and not dominating as before. 8/10 for the entire half-season seems fair; you only need to look at his stats to see how far ahead he is of the rest of our midfielders in many categories, despite his recent drop-off.

Jones 6.5 (18 games, 11 starts, 6 of them in the EPL, 2 goals, 3 assists; passing 91.8%(!), key passes/90 0.2, tackles/90 1.0) Started the season with a lot of promise, but the unfortunate red card vs Spurs and subsequent injury damaged his momentum. He only started 2 Premier League games since that fateful evening at Tottenham stadium at the end of September - although those were key games against City and Arsenal. Perhaps Klopp considers him a “safe” player well suitable for games against tougher opponents, but prefers others in games where we need to press home an advantage.

Gravenberch 6 (21 games, 12 starts, 7 of them in the EPL, 2 goals, 2 assists; passing 82.3%, key passes/90 0.6, tackles/90 0.8) Perhaps somewhat fortunate to be getting so much consistent game time in a top team, given how raw he is - he does have some specific qualities Klopp finds useful at LCM, but mostly this is an investment of trust in his future potential.

Elliott 6.5 (25 games, 11 starts, 2 of them in the EPL; 1 goal, 2 assists; passing 88.9%, key passes/90 0.6, tackles/90 0.5) Consistently good as a sub, but so far not trusted as a starter. Will surely get more game time while Salah is away and overall his development is ticking along nicely.

Thiago 0 (0 games, 0 goals, 0 assists; passing 00.0%, key passes/90 0.0, tackles/90 0.0). No contribution on the pitch yet, but otherwise a top lad.

 

[bluebell]

Ali - 10 / Kelleher - 6
Trent - 7.5 / Gomez 7.5
Matip - 6.5 / Konate 7.0
Virgil - 9 / Quansah 9
Robbo - 4 / Kostas 7
Mac - 6 / Endo 7.0
Szobo 7.5 / Harvey 7.3
Grav 7 / Jones 7.5
Salah 9.5
Nunez 8.3 / Gakpo 6
Diaz 4 / Jota 6.5

 

[Woland]

I don't get how Mac scores higher than Endo so far. Because he did well when we had ten men? When he'd been sent off? I don't know what the stats are but endo seems better than him at winning the ball and retaining possession. Harsh on Tsimikas, Jones and Elliot too, who've all been better than average. I was dead worried when Robbo got injured because I don't rate the Greek, but here we are, top of the league. He did a great job there.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Ya Endo a 7 is a farce! He’s easily an 8.5 if not a 9. He’s been outstanding all things considered.

 

[RedStar]

There appears to be some sort of relative scale here grading players against preseason expectations rather than actual performances. How else can you explain Konate at 6 while Quansah is 10. A 10 is basically Virgil 2018-2020, the only player remotely close to that level of performance in Alison.

 

[keniget]

There appears to be some sort of relative scale here grading players against preseason expectations rather than actual performances. How else can you explain Konate at 6 while Quansah is 10. A 10 is basically Virgil 2018-2020, the only player remotely close to that level of performance in Alison.

Funny you should make that point, I was just about to post ratings but from the angle of who has exceeded / met / fell short of expectations.

But it's all very relative to how you view that player. For me:

Exceeded expectations - VVD, Gomez, Quansah, Endo, Matip

Met expectations - Alisson, TAA, Salah, Jota, Nunez, Jones, Elliot, Szobo, Grav, Gakpo, Robertson, Tsimikas

Below expectations - Macallister, Kelleher, Konate, Diaz

That's not to say Quansah or Endo have been better than Alisson, just that the expectations were far lower. Similarily, I expected a mixed bag from Nunez and that's pretty much what we've gotten.

On the bottom end of things, I had pretty high expectations of Macallister and he hasn't quite found his place / rythym in this team yet.

 

[bluebell]

There appears to be some sort of relative scale here grading players against preseason expectations rather than actual performances. How else can you explain Konate at 6 while Quansah is 10. A 10 is basically Virgil 2018-2020, the only player remotely close to that level of performance in Alison.

Konate got injured, may not ne his fault but it hinders us

 

[Tinto]

Funny you should make that point, I was just about to post ratings but from the angle of who has exceeded / met / fell short of expectations.

But it's all very relative to how you view that player. For me:

Exceeded expectations - VVD, Gomez, Quansah, Endo, Matip

Met expectations - Alisson, TAA, Salah, Jota, Nunez, Jones, Elliot, Szobo, Grav, Gakpo, Robertson, Tsimikas

Below expectations - Macallister, Kelleher, Konate, Diaz

That's not to say Quansah or Endo have been better than Alisson, just that the expectations were far lower. Similarily, I expected a mixed bag from Nunez and that's pretty much what we've gotten.

On the bottom end of things, I had pretty high expectations of Macallister and he hasn't quite found his place / rythym in this team yet.

I would even put Nunez as exceeding expectations as I didn’t see a place for him in the side after the end of last season.

Sure, he’s not scored enough and still gets offside way too much but he’s picked up the nuances of our pressing which seemed way beyond him last season

 

[rurikbird]

I don't get how Mac scores higher than Endo so far. Because he did well when we had ten men? When he'd been sent off? I don't know what the stats are but endo seems better than him at winning the ball and retaining possession. Harsh on Tsimikas, Jones and Elliot too, who've all been better than average. I was dead worried when Robbo got injured because I don't rate the Greek, but here we are, top of the league. He did a great job there.

Easy - we’ve rebuilt our midfield and Mac has been the glue holding it together until his injury. His individual performances rarely looked spectacular, but I genuinely think he is a big reason the midfield rebuild went so smoothly that we’re currently finding ourselves in first place. I love Endo, but he’s become a key player only literally in the last 2-3 weeks; before that he was on the periphery.

Also if you compare MacAllister’s stats to Endo, there is a visible difference.

Not sure how I’m harsh on Tsimikas - it’s the same score as Robbo whom he replaced and of course Robbo played well until his injury, a clear improvement compared to last season. Tsimikas took about a month to start matching that performance level, but eventually played well too - 6.5 seems fair to me.

 

[Woland]

Looks pretty close to me stat wise, though Opta score endo quite a bit higher. God knows what an Opta index is though.

https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=-t5N3EaecrHPIm4zoXoCJ

 

[StevieM]

Better put this in here where I meant to put it.

My Ratings so far, and I’m basing this on the League - for Dreamies sake, let’s call 6 the average.

Alisson : 8 - There is no other keeper I’d rather have.
Kelleher : 6 - He’s a decent backup that’s hard to really rate unless he gets a significant run of games.
Trent : 7.5 - not quite hitting top form, but still such an important player for us.
Robbo : 6 - wasn’t firing before his injury - hopefully the rest is good for him.
Tsimikas : 6.5 - unfortunate injury, was just starting to get into form.
Matip : 7 - was looking back to his best.
Konate : 6.5 - not consistent, big Ibou’s better than Matip when he’s on it, but a potential disaster when he’s not.
Gomez : 7 - important squad player.
Quansah : 7 - great prospect
Virgil : 8 - getting close to being back to his imperious best.
Endo : 7 - getting up to speed - does the simple stuff well & will be important to us in the second half of the season.
Mac A : 6.5 - I think he’s adapted well, but he’s not being deployed in his best position.
Slobbers : 7.5 - he’s really fucking good, but his performances of late have dipped a little - I should give him an 8 - but he’s just lacking a very little bit of late.
Harvey : 7 - done well, not quite bailed a starting role, but playing well when introduced.
Curtis : 6.5 - Hasn’t hit form or consistency yet, but hasn’t been awful.
Gravvy : 6.5 - Same boat as Curtis & Mac A - been ok, but not owning it just yet.
Salah : 7.5 - Might seem harsh for his output, but he’s absolutely not been at his best, despite all the goals & assists.
Nunez : 6 - playing ok, working hard, but not delivering the goals we need him to.
Jota : 7 - fitness is his big issue - aside from that, he’s finding the net regularly which is what you want.
Gakpo 6 - has been deployed in different roles and hasn’t achieved either form or consistency - needs to influence games more.
Diaz : 5.5 - Started the season well, has chipped in with a few goals, but seems to be lacking of late -he’s another one that needs to find a bit of form.

 

[moron]

Easy - we’ve rebuilt our midfield and Mac has been the glue holding it together until his injury. His individual performances rarely looked spectacular, but I genuinely think he is a big reason the midfield rebuild went so smoothly that we’re currently finding ourselves in first place. I love Endo, but he’s become a key player only literally in the last 2-3 weeks; before that he was on the periphery.

Also if you compare MacAllister’s stats to Endo, there is a visible difference.

Not sure how I’m harsh on Tsimikas - it’s the same score as Robbo whom he replaced and of course Robbo played well until his injury, a clear improvement compared to last season. Tsimikas took about a month to start matching that performance level, but eventually played well too - 6.5 seems fair to me.

Please be more clear on what that visible difference is, are we better ? are we more shit ?

 

[dee]

Better put this in here where I meant to put it.

My Ratings so far, and I’m basing this on the League - for Dreamies sake, let’s call 6 the average.

.. the ratings ...

I know I'm obsessive about his but again someone (no offence intended to the poster) has given themselves the potential to use 21 levels in the range 0->10 using 1/2 point increments and then restricts themselves to 6 actual ranks.. Drive me batty!

 

[dee]

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[/xtable]

1. We are top of the league by a two goal margin
2. This is a transition season that's just gone better than expected .... so far
3. Our goal difference is the best in the league, mainly due to our solid defence
4. Our solid defence includes Trent
5. We've lost just one game in the league ... in the last minute of six added ... when down to 9 men
6. Our summer signings have probably exceeded the management expectation!
7. Our four midfield signings have been solid, only Gravenberch has yet to fully 'step up' but has shown promise
8. We've in the EFL Cup semis and qualified direct into the Europa League KO stages
9. Klopp
10. As far as I'm concerned it is currently us vs City with Arsenal keeping us both honest

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT !!!

:-D