Adam and Carroll aren't good enough for Liverpool.
Have we really spent our money well?
- Thread starter LadyRed
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Have to agree, but while we pay more for british, and you sell on for more too...
Henderson and carroll are still possible disasters, adam is solid enough but as a squaddy.
The others look solid, emrique, downing, suarez, -
Too many new players thpugh to be honest. The patchwork side of last season looks better cos they knew each other with flanno and robbo in there. This team clearly needs time to gel as they just don't know each other...
And yes no way mata aguero et al would come here as long as city and chelsea are in the cl and splashing the cash
Henderson and carroll are still possible disasters, adam is solid enough but as a squaddy.
The others look solid, emrique, downing, suarez, -
Too many new players thpugh to be honest. The patchwork side of last season looks better cos they knew each other with flanno and robbo in there. This team clearly needs time to gel as they just don't know each other...
And yes no way mata aguero et al would come here as long as city and chelsea are in the cl and splashing the cash
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1400950#msg1400950 date=1316357103]
We should have signed Llorente instead of Carroll and Martinez instead of Henderson.
[/quote]
But then we'd have no one for the right
We should have bought hoilett if we were properly talking about RW spot.
We should have signed Llorente instead of Carroll and Martinez instead of Henderson.
[/quote]
But then we'd have no one for the right
We should have bought hoilett if we were properly talking about RW spot.
I wasn't really impressed with any of our signings this summer, and I'm worried about Carroll.
I thought Adam was a bit of a plodder - who stood out in a relegated Blackpool side because of his set pieces and the odd brilliant pass. Looks like midtable Premiership is his level.
Henderson I knew next to nothing about but I'll give him time since he's clearly been signed with the future in mind. Is largely anonymous when he plays, though.
Carroll has performed for half a season at the top level. If he fulfils his promise could be a monster, but it's not looking likely.
Enrique looks a good buy, and the best option available for LB at the time.
Downing was a signing that worried me because I thought he was a bit meh. But he's done well, but you've got to wonder if there was better available for £20m.
Erm so to answer Anita, I think we could have spent the money better and haven't done too well with the signings.
I thought Adam was a bit of a plodder - who stood out in a relegated Blackpool side because of his set pieces and the odd brilliant pass. Looks like midtable Premiership is his level.
Henderson I knew next to nothing about but I'll give him time since he's clearly been signed with the future in mind. Is largely anonymous when he plays, though.
Carroll has performed for half a season at the top level. If he fulfils his promise could be a monster, but it's not looking likely.
Enrique looks a good buy, and the best option available for LB at the time.
Downing was a signing that worried me because I thought he was a bit meh. But he's done well, but you've got to wonder if there was better available for £20m.
Erm so to answer Anita, I think we could have spent the money better and haven't done too well with the signings.
my opinion is thus
adam
with a fit and healthy gerrard, adam is squad player
henderson
has just turned 21, he is one for the future, I've been impressed b his delivery from the right and his one touch passing but little else if I'm honest
downing
looks like an excellent signing
enrique
looks like he's been our left back for years
carroll
I think he can be brilliant for us but I don't think we're willing to change our set up to accomadate him and I don't think carroll has enough to his game to stay in the team if we aren't specifically playing to his strengths
bellemy
terrific signing and he should be starting rather than being an impact sub
adam
with a fit and healthy gerrard, adam is squad player
henderson
has just turned 21, he is one for the future, I've been impressed b his delivery from the right and his one touch passing but little else if I'm honest
downing
looks like an excellent signing
enrique
looks like he's been our left back for years
carroll
I think he can be brilliant for us but I don't think we're willing to change our set up to accomadate him and I don't think carroll has enough to his game to stay in the team if we aren't specifically playing to his strengths
bellemy
terrific signing and he should be starting rather than being an impact sub
I'm really not fussed on the Bellamy signing. Didn't particularly like him first time around.
We should have tried to get Adebayor on loan instead.
We should have tried to get Adebayor on loan instead.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=46910.msg1400814#msg1400814 date=1316354961]
Well?
[/quote]
It's hard to relate money directly to players worth. If you can afford it at the time, and they want to come, you buy who you want.
I think we've signed good players, but we haven't filled every role yet.
Well?
[/quote]
It's hard to relate money directly to players worth. If you can afford it at the time, and they want to come, you buy who you want.
I think we've signed good players, but we haven't filled every role yet.
Adam = decent player for 7 million, he can add something to a side.
Henderson = baffling amount for a bog standard player.
Downing = decent player but far too expensive.
Carroll = massive gamble that didn't pay off. Sell ASAP while we can still get good money for him.
Suarez = excellent.
Enrique = not convinced yet, even though he's played well so far.
Coates = good bit of business just have to hope it works out for him.
Henderson = baffling amount for a bog standard player.
Downing = decent player but far too expensive.
Carroll = massive gamble that didn't pay off. Sell ASAP while we can still get good money for him.
Suarez = excellent.
Enrique = not convinced yet, even though he's played well so far.
Coates = good bit of business just have to hope it works out for him.
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=46910.msg1401084#msg1401084 date=1316360667]
Carroll will be a Liverpool legend.
[/quote]
Sell him now!
Carroll will be a Liverpool legend.
[/quote]
Sell him now!
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=46910.msg1401097#msg1401097 date=1316360909]
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=46910.msg1401084#msg1401084 date=1316360667]
Carroll will be a Liverpool legend.
[/quote]
Sell him now!
[/quote]
Who the fuck is going to buy glock?
[quote author=The_Rule link=topic=46910.msg1401084#msg1401084 date=1316360667]
Carroll will be a Liverpool legend.
[/quote]
Sell him now!
[/quote]
Who the fuck is going to buy glock?
I honestly think Crouchie was better. I wouldn't go as far as Heskey. Not yet.
from what I've seen of carroll he can we excellent but you have to specifically play to he strengths,
* he isn't going to work the challenges
* he isn't going to drop deep and link play
the bottom line is can't you blame carroll if we aren't playing to his strengths, that would be like hoofing the ball up to suarez and then complaining you're getting no knocks downs/flick ons.
* he isn't going to work the challenges
* he isn't going to drop deep and link play
the bottom line is can't you blame carroll if we aren't playing to his strengths, that would be like hoofing the ball up to suarez and then complaining you're getting no knocks downs/flick ons.
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401156#msg1401156 date=1316362214]
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
I don't think we have a knee-jerk reaction here at all. There is something wrong and it comes down to dealing with opposition that is fast at moving the ball around and has pace. We just cannot deal with it, and as for wasting money I am not quite certain if we have wasted all our money yet as I think both Adam, and Henderson should be judged after a season and not 5 games. However, Carroll ... I don't even want to go there, for 35Million I expect proven talent and he was neither proven nor the right type of replacement for what we lost in Torres. The fact that we have bought all these players is ok with me (except Carroll of course - I actually believe he has had enough chances to impress us and has failed) given their age and what we wanted to get. But whats worrying from today is that there was no midfield impetus today, we don't have a young replacement for our Captain which I think we desperately need, or anyone who can do the type of job he can do for us.... meaning the driving forward when its needed. To blame the wingers etc.. is wrong when you have no-one driving from the middle of the park, if we were to buy one sort of player then that would be it. Also I know he has impressed quite a bit and is our best buy but I don't regard Suarez as first striker, he is ideal for that creative type behind the main striker, I know for sure Carroll don't fit the no 1. striker role.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401159#msg1401159 date=1316362268]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401156#msg1401156 date=1316362214]
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
[/quote]
well, not english players for a start: almost always overpriced.
winger: mata/hazard/jovetic etc
midfielder: witsel/m'vila/sissoko etc
striker: don't know. i'm not a scout. i do, however, suspect that there's someone out there in the rest of the world who might have proved a better and less expensive option than andy carroll.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401156#msg1401156 date=1316362214]
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
[/quote]
well, not english players for a start: almost always overpriced.
winger: mata/hazard/jovetic etc
midfielder: witsel/m'vila/sissoko etc
striker: don't know. i'm not a scout. i do, however, suspect that there's someone out there in the rest of the world who might have proved a better and less expensive option than andy carroll.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401183#msg1401183 date=1316362881]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401159#msg1401159 date=1316362268]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401156#msg1401156 date=1316362214]
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
[/quote]
well, not english players for a start: almost always overpriced.
winger: mata/hazard/jovetic etc
midfielder: witsel/m'vila/sissoko etc
striker: don't know. i'm not a scout. i do, however, suspect that there's someone out there in the rest of the world who might have proved a better and less expensive option than andy carroll.
[/quote]
probably
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46910.msg1401159#msg1401159 date=1316362268]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401156#msg1401156 date=1316362214]
i wouldn't have signed adam, henderson, carroll, or downing. that's £77m.
i wouldn't have sold meireles, so that's £12m, leaving £65m to allocate:
a quality, pacey, Torres replacement - £20-25m
an exciting young winger (say, mata) - £20-25m
an all-action essien-style midfielder (to partner gerrard when fit, or lucas otherwise) - £15-20m
so no, i don't think we spent well, and i never did, either.
[/quote]
but WHOOOOOOOOOO
[/quote]
well, not english players for a start: almost always overpriced.
winger: mata/hazard/jovetic etc
midfielder: witsel/m'vila/sissoko etc
striker: don't know. i'm not a scout. i do, however, suspect that there's someone out there in the rest of the world who might have proved a better and less expensive option than andy carroll.
[/quote]
probably
Money well spent?
not on todays evidence.
not on todays evidence.
Jovetic was brilliant against us. How's he doing these days?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46910.msg1401189#msg1401189 date=1316363007]
Adebayor ?
[/quote]
yeah, for the 3 games he behaves himself. i'd much, much, much rather have him for free than carroll for £35m, though.
Adebayor ?
[/quote]
yeah, for the 3 games he behaves himself. i'd much, much, much rather have him for free than carroll for £35m, though.
i said in the summer that we had about 7 centre mids but they were all squadies -- even gerrard was a worry at that point. we used to do well with all kinds of dross in our team cos we had geerard and alonso who could dominate any midfield out there regularly. we have to raise the standards for that position dramatically as it's the most important by far imo.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46910.msg1401203#msg1401203 date=1316363317]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46910.msg1401189#msg1401189 date=1316363007]
Adebayor ?
[/quote]
yeah, for the 3 games he behaves himself. i'd much, much, much rather have him for free than carroll for £35m, though.
[/quote]
i always wanted adebayor
Quality player
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46910.msg1401189#msg1401189 date=1316363007]
Adebayor ?
[/quote]
yeah, for the 3 games he behaves himself. i'd much, much, much rather have him for free than carroll for £35m, though.
[/quote]
i always wanted adebayor
Quality player
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=46910.msg1401315#msg1401315 date=1316367310]
The question is irrelevant. Getting £50m for Torres skewed everything. Look at it this way, £7m for Suarez and Carroll was good business.
[/quote]
that makes no fucking sense.
The question is irrelevant. Getting £50m for Torres skewed everything. Look at it this way, £7m for Suarez and Carroll was good business.
[/quote]
that makes no fucking sense.
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46910.msg1401204#msg1401204 date=1316363345]
i said in the summer that we had about 7 centre mids but they were all squadies -- even gerrard was a worry at that point. we used to do well with all kinds of dross in our team cos we had geerard and alonso who could dominate any midfield out there regularly. we have to raise the standards for that position dramatically as it's the most important by far imo.
[/quote]
This. It's absolutely critical. I've banged on before about our lack of a spine, and the absolute criticality of building one to be a competitive side. The keeper, the two CBs, and the two CMs and your AM i.e. the centre of the pitch - has to be absolute top quality (and play and start together consistently) if you want a title challenging side.
Every top team I can think of since when I can remember has had one.
Chelsea - Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Makelele, Essien, Lampard
Arsenal - Lehmann, Campbell, Toure, Gilberto, Vieira, Pires
Scum - VDS/Schmeichel, Vidic/Stam, Ferdinand/Bruce/Pallister, Keane, Scholes
Barca - Valdez, Puyol, Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta
Madrid - Casillas, Hierro, Makelele, Helguera/Redondo, Zidane
Milan - Dida, Nesta, Costacurta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaka
Bayern - Kahn, Kuffour, Linke, Jeremies, Effenberg, Scholl
Valencia - Canizares, Ayala, Pellegrino, Baraja, Albelda, Aimar
Inter - Cesar, Lucio, Samuel, Cambiasso, Zanetti, Sneijder
Our best season in 19 years was with a spine of Pepe, Carra, Hyypia/Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard.
What is our spine today?
Reina, an ageing Carra, injury prone Agger/error prone Skrtel, Lucas, Adam, Henderson?
Pales in comparison to any of the lists above. Until we get a quality spine, we can forget about, forget winning (as that requires, in addition, at least 2-3 legitimate matchwinners as well), but even challenging for the title.
Basically, hope that:
1. Coates turns out to be a world class CB. Identify a long term partner for him asap - Carra's eventual replacement. I don't know who this will be, but I doubt it's going to be Agger or Skrtel. Wisdom or Kelly perhaps. Or maybe we need to spend again.
2. We buy a top quality DM - Lucas has improved tremendously. But we really someone of the quality of Hamann or Mascherano. M'vila perhaps?
3. We buy a quality quality CM - Adam isn't good enough - We need a thoroughbred midfielder who can sit in the middle of the park and run the game - like an Alonso, Xavi, Pirlo or Effenberg. Alternatively, an enforcer like Vieira, Keane or Essien (though they seem to be a dying breed these days).
4. Gerrard gets back to his best, and Henderson becomes, at the very least, an effective understudy
i said in the summer that we had about 7 centre mids but they were all squadies -- even gerrard was a worry at that point. we used to do well with all kinds of dross in our team cos we had geerard and alonso who could dominate any midfield out there regularly. we have to raise the standards for that position dramatically as it's the most important by far imo.
[/quote]
This. It's absolutely critical. I've banged on before about our lack of a spine, and the absolute criticality of building one to be a competitive side. The keeper, the two CBs, and the two CMs and your AM i.e. the centre of the pitch - has to be absolute top quality (and play and start together consistently) if you want a title challenging side.
Every top team I can think of since when I can remember has had one.
Chelsea - Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Makelele, Essien, Lampard
Arsenal - Lehmann, Campbell, Toure, Gilberto, Vieira, Pires
Scum - VDS/Schmeichel, Vidic/Stam, Ferdinand/Bruce/Pallister, Keane, Scholes
Barca - Valdez, Puyol, Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta
Madrid - Casillas, Hierro, Makelele, Helguera/Redondo, Zidane
Milan - Dida, Nesta, Costacurta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaka
Bayern - Kahn, Kuffour, Linke, Jeremies, Effenberg, Scholl
Valencia - Canizares, Ayala, Pellegrino, Baraja, Albelda, Aimar
Inter - Cesar, Lucio, Samuel, Cambiasso, Zanetti, Sneijder
Our best season in 19 years was with a spine of Pepe, Carra, Hyypia/Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard.
What is our spine today?
Reina, an ageing Carra, injury prone Agger/error prone Skrtel, Lucas, Adam, Henderson?
Pales in comparison to any of the lists above. Until we get a quality spine, we can forget about, forget winning (as that requires, in addition, at least 2-3 legitimate matchwinners as well), but even challenging for the title.
Basically, hope that:
1. Coates turns out to be a world class CB. Identify a long term partner for him asap - Carra's eventual replacement. I don't know who this will be, but I doubt it's going to be Agger or Skrtel. Wisdom or Kelly perhaps. Or maybe we need to spend again.
2. We buy a top quality DM - Lucas has improved tremendously. But we really someone of the quality of Hamann or Mascherano. M'vila perhaps?
3. We buy a quality quality CM - Adam isn't good enough - We need a thoroughbred midfielder who can sit in the middle of the park and run the game - like an Alonso, Xavi, Pirlo or Effenberg. Alternatively, an enforcer like Vieira, Keane or Essien (though they seem to be a dying breed these days).
4. Gerrard gets back to his best, and Henderson becomes, at the very least, an effective understudy
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