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Konate

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The 'sell him now' crowd just haven't done their maths.

Quite aside from trying to find a CB of his quality, he was an integral part of the team last season.

Sell him now with just 1 year left on his contract would mean £30-40m (and that's even assuming we could find a buyer he would agree to move to). More likely the club he wants would just wait a year and get him on a free.

Buying a CB of his quality would cost us £60-70m. So we'd be out of pocket the £30m or so we'd get for selling now.

What is the point of that?! Unsettle the defence as well as LB / RB / CF and midfield?!
 
Frogfish said:
The 'sell him now' crowd just haven't done their maths.

Quite aside from trying to find a CB of his quality, he was an integral part of the team last season.

Sell him now with just 1 year left on his contract would mean £30-40m (and that's even assuming we could find a buyer he would agree to move to). More likely the club he wants would just wait a year and get him on a free.

Buying a CB of his quality would cost us £60-70m. So we'd be out of pocket the £30m or so we'd get for selling now.

What is the point of that?! Unsettle the defence as well as LB / RB / CF and midfield?!
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As I've mentioned, I wouldn't sell him but I absolutely would let him rot on the bench behind guehi.
 
Frogfish said:
The 'sell him now' crowd just haven't done their maths.

Quite aside from trying to find a CB of his quality, he was an integral part of the team last season.

Sell him now with just 1 year left on his contract would mean £30-40m (and that's even assuming we could find a buyer he would agree to move to). More likely the club he wants would just wait a year and get him on a free.

Buying a CB of his quality would cost us £60-70m. So we'd be out of pocket the £30m or so we'd get for selling now.

What is the point of that?! Unsettle the defence as well as LB / RB / CF and midfield?!
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Because we'd be out of pocket £60-70m next summer instead of £30-40m this summer (using your figures)? It's a big difference!
 
Tbh guehi could be of that quality. Hard to know until they get the minutes for us

Id like ibou to stay though.
 
binomial said:
If it's true what he's asking for is 180-200k, then that's well within reason. It'll be disappointing if we're haggling over 30-50k

How much change is too much? I think your answer is going into next season with Virg as your only winning defender in that back 4.
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Completely agree. That price range is reasonable.

Above 200k PW base pay and I think it's a tough case. Question then is whether to sell and risk discontinuity in the backline affecting our season or risk letting another valuable asset leave on a free. Truthfully I'd be inclined to the latter but it's a tough decision.
 
Tricky one for sure but I think I'd come down on the other side of that debate. We have to hold the line on player demands at a genuinely affordable level so, if the demand really does turn out to be above £200,000 a week, much as I rate Konate I'd sell now. We're going to risk some discontinuity anyway with the new signings we're bringing in.
 
peterhague said:
Because we'd be out of pocket £60-70m next summer instead of £30-40m this summer (using your figures)? It's a big difference!
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We've spent a fortune already this season and still have a CF & maybe a 4th/5th CB to find.

As to the price difference, this season we'd get creamed because everyone would know we now need two CBs. I'm not sure we'd make any saving at all selling now and put us in a desperate situation.

Pushing it back a year gives us not only time to see if Guehi can be the man for RCB (when he's primarily a LCB) but Green time to line up next Summer's transfers. And hopefully also a big windfall from the PL and CL again.
 
Judge Jules said:
Tricky one for sure but I think I'd come down on the other side of that debate. We have to hold the line on player demands at a genuinely affordable level so, if the demand really does turn out to be above £200,000 a week, much as I rate Konate I'd sell now. We're going to risk some discontinuity anyway with the new signings we're bringing in.
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On the lack of continuity (ignoring any other factor) I still wouldn't sell him. I believe we would be weakening the defence and giving up a Golden Opportunity to win back to back PLs and maybe even a PL+CL double.

It's fine when every purchase we've made so far improves the team (Wirtz, Kerkez and Frimpong), but swapping Konate for anyone else (inc. Guehi who is primarily a LCB) will be detrimental, as well as meaning every single (bar keeper) area of our team is undergoing a metamorphosis to some degree. I would like to keep the core of the defence (Ali+VvD+Ibou) solid and immutable from last season, it would help stability a lot.
 
Frogfish said:
We've spent a fortune already this season and still have a CF & maybe a 4th/5th CB to find.

As to the price difference, this season we'd get creamed because everyone would know we now need two CBs. I'm not sure we'd make any saving at all selling now and put us in a desperate situation.

Pushing it back a year gives us not only time to see if Guehi can be the man for RCB (when he's primarily a LCB) but Green time to line up next Summer's transfers. And hopefully also a big windfall from the PL and CL again.
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I wonder if anyone's ever done the work to see how true this actually is. Everyone just repeats it like it's a settled fact. And yet in the normal market how much you have to pay for an asset has basically zero relationship with how rich you are or how desperate your need is.

I know football's different because clubs don't usually have that many alternative options, but they always have SOME. I wonder how much difference it really makes.
 
The club let contracts run down rather than accept onerous terms. That's happened time and again. We don't do sell on clauses, massive basic salaries or long contracts for older players.

Konate will probably go on a free in a year and the club will be relaxed about it. He's very good but not at the level of VVD or Salah and even with them we didn't lie down.

Selling now is unlikely, too many changes so keep him for another season
 
peterhague said:
I wonder if anyone's ever done the work to see how true this actually is. Everyone just repeats it like it's a settled fact. And yet in the normal market how much you have to pay for an asset has basically zero relationship with how rich you are or how desperate your need is.

I know football's different because clubs don't usually have that many alternative options, but they always have SOME. I wonder how much difference it really makes.
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Well I guess this comes down to demand. Surely there is a direct correlation (though this is likely impossible to prove either way) as we see in any other market for other assets / commodities.

Maybe Caicedo is actually a decent indicator - two teams fighting for his signature pushed it far higher than he was likely to have been sold for otherwise ... and I'd suggest that, even when there is only one buying club, the selling club, knowing the buying club is desperate for their asset, will initially quote a higher figure and are far more likely to hold their ground.

Of course that is difficult to prove unless you are on the board of the selling club. For us (me) it's pure conjecture even if it seems to be logical.
 
peterhague said:
I wonder if anyone's ever done the work to see how true this actually is. Everyone just repeats it like it's a settled fact. And yet in the normal market how much you have to pay for an asset has basically zero relationship with how rich you are or how desperate your need is.

I know football's different because clubs don't usually have that many alternative options, but they always have SOME. I wonder how much difference it really makes.
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question but ultimately comes down to each clubs BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement, for those not familiar). If you've got alternatives, the other side doesn't have leverage. But if you don't have good alternatives, it's easy to be twisted into a position you don't want. Ultimately, what's the cost of walking away?

When we wanted Virgil, we had to cough up a world record fee. Same for Wirtz now (albeit club, not world record). If there were two or three players we valued as highly, we likely could have negotiated down. But it was Virgil/Wirtz or not getting the player our decision makers felt we needed and therefore we didn't have much negotiation room.

The funny example is the "United tax", whereby they've paid over the odds for several players in recent years. But it's hard to argue that they didn't have other alternatives given how utterly shit the players they overpaid for were.
 
darkstarexodus said:
The funny example is the "United tax", whereby they've paid over the odds for several players in recent years. But it's hard to argue that they didn't have other alternatives given how utterly shit the players they overpaid for were.
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It's because they've been idiots and haven't said no to anyone. They go after Antony, a at best £30 mill player, Ajax tell them to fuck off by setting a fuck off price tag and Man U go "damn, he must be good then, here's £85 mill".
It's been that way for years.
I mean how else do you fucking wind up with Onana?
 
Modo said:
It's because they've been idiots and haven't said no to anyone. They go after Antony, a at best £30 mill player, Ajax tell them to fuck off by setting a fuck off price tag and Man U go "damn, he must be good then, here's £85 mill".
It's been that way for years.
I mean how else do you fucking wind up with Onana?
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Mason Mount. Casemiro. So many past-it or mediocre players.

Tbf, Antony definitely would have gone for well over 30m based on his play at Ajax. Just not 85m or whatever they paid for him.
 
Modo said:
It's because they've been idiots and haven't said no to anyone. They go after Antony, a at best £30 mill player, Ajax tell them to fuck off by setting a fuck off price tag and Man U go "damn, he must be good then, here's £85 mill".
It's been that way for years.
I mean how else do you fucking wind up with Onana?
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This genius muppet!
dc897e4d-d8da-43b3-a442-00d4144c10a7.jpg
 
Fabio said:
As I've mentioned, I wouldn't sell him but I absolutely would let him rot on the bench behind guehi.
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Id just be happy if Konate had proper competition and had to consistently deliver the levels we know he's capable of. Gomez out since Xmas, Quansah young and not fancied, he could coast second half of last season. Except Slot rewatches every training session!

Anyway, it feels like he's going to PSG next year (Real have Huysen, Ascensio, Rudiger better than him). Sod him if he's running down his contract, it's more about our succession planning now, which we've been really smart about recently. Would be a big miss but Guehi would work for me.
 
Al_Gatto said:
Id just be happy if Konate had proper competition and had to consistently deliver the levels we know he's capable of. Gomez out since Xmas, Quansah young and not fancied, he could coast second half of last season. Except Slot rewatches every training session!

Anyway, it feels like he's going to PSG next year (Real have Huysen, Ascensio, Rudiger better than him). Sod him if he's running down his contract, it's more about our succession planning now, which we've been really smart about recently. Would be a big miss but Guehi would work for me.
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I'd dispute that either Ascensio or Huijsen are better than Konate. The former definitely isn't and the latter might become so but needs more than a season of being a starter to prove it.
 
darkstarexodus said:
I'd dispute that either Ascensio or Huijsen are better than Konate. The former definitely isn't and the latter might become so but needs more than a season of being a starter to prove it.
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Yeah its debatable but Ascensio looks really good. Hujsen looks the part and even younger. I nearly said Konate is still young but at 26 he must be nearing his peak. Especially with his injury record.

I love the guy but the contract thing is really losing him all love. Sure he's free to sign or not but loyalty and buy-in are key. Ultimately he's from Paris and can understand why he wants to go there. Like Real though, bags of money, but won't just buy the player. I'm not sure we'd sell tbf.
 
Glen C said:
If we are getting guehi then its because we are looking to get rid of konate. No way would guehi coming in to be 3rd choice.
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Not if it were guaranteed that that's how it would turn out, but it's not. We're going to have to play a shedload of games and Guehi will back himself to get a good number of those as one of the top three CBs at the club.
 
localny said:
I always liked Klopp's approach. If someone wants away, let them go. Feck off.
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Eh...wants to go right now. Players are saying I don't want go, maybe next year, and Klopp of all people was fine with that. I've never seen so many senior players leave for free like under Klopp.
 
Judge Jules said:
Not if it were guaranteed that that's how it would turn out, but it's not. We're going to have to play a shedload of games and Guehi will back himself to get a good number of those as one of the top three CBs at the club.
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Why would he risk it in world cup year when he can play every game and leave for free next summer and a get a HUGE payoff.
 
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