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Life without Carra and Gerrard

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HC

HC

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12 Months ago, the idea of starting a league game without either would depress the life out of me.

Now, Im not really too phased by it; Im almost resigned to both being part-time players now due to their ages and respective injury problems.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be gutted if (unfortunately when) Gerrard retires without a single league title after his name but it's not as 'woe as me' as it would've been 12-18 months ago.

Are either of them that influential on the pitch now?

If you had £40m to pick two natural successors, who would you go after ?
 
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.
 
I think thats the crux of it mate.

It's eased in the process of losing them, slowly but surely.
 
Having a favourite footballer is a bit like owning a dog. You think they're great and love to watch them play but at the end of the day the bastard dies or retires. With a dog you can expect a solid 12 years or so out of them, roughly as long as a professional footballers career.
 
It's more like having a cat. As they can fuck off somewhere else if the food is better, and generally don't give a shit about you.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47405.msg1421430#msg1421430 date=1320402893]
It's more like having a cat. As they can fuck off somewhere else if the food is better, and generally don't give a shit about you.
[/quote]
Good point.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47405.msg1421418#msg1421418 date=1320400785]
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.


[/quote]

someone needs a hug 🙂
 
obviously keni is in a bad mood. I'm a little indifferent to the losses of carra and gerrard and it has fuck all with being 'shit'. carra has been past his best for years and gerrard has been in and out of the side for years and when he wasn't in the side our results were actually better than when he was in the side (that's not an observation, that's a fact).
 
Life would be easier if we had some players that could lessen Suarez burden.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421433#msg1421433 date=1320403214]
obviously keni is in a bad mood. I'm a little indifferent to the losses of carra and gerrard and it has fuck all with being 'shit'. carra has been past his best for years and gerrard has been in and out of the side for years and when he wasn't in the side our results were actually better than when he was in the side (that's not an observation, that's a fact).
[/quote]

Carra hasn't been past his best for "years".

Gerrard hasn't been in and out of the side for "years" either. He's had injury problems over the last 12 months. How is that years?

As for the whole being shit thing, well, for me it's been a factor. Our side became a little bit unrecognizable for a while both in terms of the personnel and the results - when the familiar is taken away from you in such a fashion you obviously end up less concerned than you would have been with some of the details.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=47405.msg1421535#msg1421535 date=1320423448]
I must be watching a different team.

Plus, the lack of respect here is something I'm not into.


[/quote]

it's not a lack of respect, I just don't think we'll implode when gerrard and carra are no longer the first names on the team sheet.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47405.msg1421418#msg1421418 date=1320400785]
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.
[/quote]

You see I would like to think we are shit - but really its more a mid-table team expectation for me this season. But losing SG more so than Carra is hard to take - as I think in my lifetime - he is the most complete footballer I have ever watched - and I really mean that, he could play in multiple positions and I know its sounds terrible given the economic conditions but I am glad he is one of the highest paid footballers because its the least our club can do for a player who should have X number of league titles to show after his playing career. Its very difficult for me to accept that this guy has never one a league title - really difficult and if we could get just another two years out of him and somehow manage to challenge in the next couple of years and win a title - it would make me very happy. I know there are plenty of you out there who probably disagree with my comment on being glad that he is one of the best paid but really honestly the management of our club should have been quicker to address the issues the club was suffering from the mid 90's onwards - we were stuck in the past to a system that served us well but was not geared to the new Sky TV era and the money it would bring. If SG was to leave us like Torres did last winter - I could completely understand his reasoning - he has stuck by us and various promises were made by management and the managers alike but non could deliver the title. It f*cks me off no end that the guy has no title to his name - a player of his skill should have one and in many ways I would compare it to the likes of Brazil's Ronaldo never winning a CL title in his career while playing in Europe. If you all look back - there are times when the guy has single-handedly given us hope when really all around him he was playing with utter shite.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421538#msg1421538 date=1320423808]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=47405.msg1421535#msg1421535 date=1320423448]
I must be watching a different team.

Plus, the lack of respect here is something I'm not into.


[/quote]

it's not a lack of respect, I just don't think we'll implode when gerrard and carra are no longer the first names on the team sheet.
[/quote]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php
 
[quote author=moron link=topic=47405.msg1421542#msg1421542 date=1320424052]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47405.msg1421418#msg1421418 date=1320400785]
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.
[/quote]

You see I would like to think we are shit - but really its more a mid-table team expectation for me this season. But losing SG more so than Carra is hard to take - as I think in my lifetime - he is the most complete footballer I have ever watched - and I really mean that, he could play in multiple positions and I know its sounds terrible given the economic conditions but I am glad he is one of the highest paid footballers because its the least our club can do for a player who should have X number of league titles to show after his playing career. Its very difficult for me to accept that this guy has never one a league title - really difficult and if we could get just another two years out of him and somehow manage to challenge in the next couple of years and win a title - it would make me very happy. I know there are plenty of you out there who probably disagree with my comment on being glad that he is one of the best paid but really honestly the management of our club should have been quicker to address the issues the club was suffering from the mid 90's onwards - we were stuck in the past to a system that served us well but was not geared to the new Sky TV era and the money it would bring. If SG was to leave us like Torres did last winter - I could completely understand his reasoning - he has stuck by us and various promises were made by management and the managers alike but non could deliver the title. It f*cks me off no end that the guy has no title to his name - a player of his skill should have one and in many ways I would compare it to the likes of Brazil's Ronaldo never winning a CL title in his career while playing in Europe. If you all look back - there are times when the guy has single-handedly given us hope when really all around him he was playing with utter shite.


[/quote]

'oh, gerrard has no title, oh boo hoo!'

2 league cups
2 fac cups
1 uefa cup
1 CL cup

oh woe is gerrard...woe...woe...woe...
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47405.msg1421418#msg1421418 date=1320400785]
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.
[/quote]

Up there with the elite? We've had two poor seasons but before that we finished 2nd ONCE under the previous manager, we're hardly a million miles from where we were, the league has got better and we've faded a bit, the only major difference is we're not kicking ass in the Champions League, regards the league we're still flattering to deceive, which we did practically every season bar about three in the last 20 years anyway. Things aren't THAT different domestically.
 
Well, yeah. We were in the CL and had a very good reputation.

Domestically we were classed as one of the Big 4.

Now we're 2nd tier.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421564#msg1421564 date=1320427527]
[quote author=moron link=topic=47405.msg1421542#msg1421542 date=1320424052]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=47405.msg1421418#msg1421418 date=1320400785]
In a funny way being shit has made it easier to lose Gerrard and to a lesser extent Carra. They both performed to such high levels in the recent years whilst we were up there with the rest of the elite and felt like it would be awful when they were gone. Now we're almost used to everything being unrecognizable and shit, so it's made it easier to not see them around.
[/quote]

You see I would like to think we are shit - but really its more a mid-table team expectation for me this season. But losing SG more so than Carra is hard to take - as I think in my lifetime - he is the most complete footballer I have ever watched - and I really mean that, he could play in multiple positions and I know its sounds terrible given the economic conditions but I am glad he is one of the highest paid footballers because its the least our club can do for a player who should have X number of league titles to show after his playing career. Its very difficult for me to accept that this guy has never one a league title - really difficult and if we could get just another two years out of him and somehow manage to challenge in the next couple of years and win a title - it would make me very happy. I know there are plenty of you out there who probably disagree with my comment on being glad that he is one of the best paid but really honestly the management of our club should have been quicker to address the issues the club was suffering from the mid 90's onwards - we were stuck in the past to a system that served us well but was not geared to the new Sky TV era and the money it would bring. If SG was to leave us like Torres did last winter - I could completely understand his reasoning - he has stuck by us and various promises were made by management and the managers alike but non could deliver the title. It f*cks me off no end that the guy has no title to his name - a player of his skill should have one and in many ways I would compare it to the likes of Brazil's Ronaldo never winning a CL title in his career while playing in Europe. If you all look back - there are times when the guy has single-handedly given us hope when really all around him he was playing with utter shite.


[/quote]

'oh, gerrard has no title, oh boo hoo!'

2 league cups
2 fac cups
1 uefa cup
1 CL cup

oh woe is gerrard...woe...woe...woe...
[/quote]

I know it looks good - but if no league title then there is something not right, the league title represents something more different, and i some respects something more special than what he has already got. Of the above - I don't count how many FA cups, and league cups we have won in our history. I do count the number of CL cups and the other thing that stays with a clubs record is the number of league titles it has to its name - ask most people and thats what they count. Unfortunately our boy has NO league titles and for all his efforts and patience he has none.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=47405.msg1421572#msg1421572 date=1320428767]
Neil - are you on crack ?
[/quote]


Whatever.

Gerrard has been good for Liverpool but Liverpool has also been good for gerrard. The club gave him his break, paid him ridiculous wages, bought some of the best players in the world for him to play beside. I'm a little tired of reading he had to ply his trade with dross when he has lined up alongside the likes of alonso, pepe, babbel, sami, torres. Gerrard doesn't have a league title and that's unfortunate but it pisses me off when people talk about about a one man team and how we were carried completely pissing on the chips of loyal servants who contributed blood, sweat and tears to keep Liverpool among the elite.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421606#msg1421606 date=1320433586]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47405.msg1421572#msg1421572 date=1320428767]
Neil - are you on crack ?
[/quote]


Whatever.

Gerrard has been good for Liverpool but Liverpool has also been good for gerrard. The club gave him his break, paid him ridiculous wages, bought some of the best players in the world for him to play beside. I'm a little tired of reading he had to ply his trade with dross when he has lined up alongside the likes of alonso, pepe, babbel, sami, Torres. Gerrard doesn't have a league title and that's unfortunate but it pisses me off when people talk about about a one man team and how we were carried completely pissing on the chips of loyal servants who contributed blood, sweat and tears to keep Liverpool among the elite.
[/quote]

So, I take it that you're going to stop pissing and moaning at our lack of competitive edge, recently ?

We've already got LOADS of trophies you can be grateful for.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421606#msg1421606 date=1320433586]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47405.msg1421572#msg1421572 date=1320428767]
Neil - are you on crack ?
[/quote]


Whatever.

Gerrard has been good for Liverpool but Liverpool has also been good for gerrard. The club gave him his break, paid him ridiculous wages, bought some of the best players in the world for him to play beside. I'm a little tired of reading he had to ply his trade with dross when he has lined up alongside the likes of alonso, pepe, babbel, sami, Torres. Gerrard doesn't have a league title and that's unfortunate but it pisses me off when people talk about about a one man team and how we were carried completely pissing on the chips of loyal servants who contributed blood, sweat and tears to keep Liverpool among the elite.
[/quote]

What? Loyal servants like Torres and Alonso ? Where the fuck are these loyal servants you talk about? Gerrard has been fucking brilliant for us Neil, brilliant and nobody has contributed more blood sweat and tears for this club in modern times than Jamie Carragher. You're talking utter fucking shite on this one.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47405.msg1421642#msg1421642 date=1320439325]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421606#msg1421606 date=1320433586]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47405.msg1421572#msg1421572 date=1320428767]
Neil - are you on crack ?
[/quote]


Whatever.

Gerrard has been good for Liverpool but Liverpool has also been good for gerrard. The club gave him his break, paid him ridiculous wages, bought some of the best players in the world for him to play beside. I'm a little tired of reading he had to ply his trade with dross when he has lined up alongside the likes of alonso, pepe, babbel, sami, Torres. Gerrard doesn't have a league title and that's unfortunate but it pisses me off when people talk about about a one man team and how we were carried completely pissing on the chips of loyal servants who contributed blood, sweat and tears to keep Liverpool among the elite.
[/quote]

What? Loyal servants like Torres and Alonso ? Where the fuck are these loyal servants you talk about? Gerrard has been fucking brilliant for us Neil, brilliant and nobody has contributed more blood sweat and tears for this club in modern times than Jamie Carragher. You're talking utter fucking shite on this one.
[/quote]

I have read your post, Neil. And re-read it. And re-re-read it.

I have had to walk away from my keyboard.

1.
2.
3.
..........
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47405.msg1421642#msg1421642 date=1320439325]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47405.msg1421606#msg1421606 date=1320433586]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47405.msg1421572#msg1421572 date=1320428767]
Neil - are you on crack ?
[/quote]


Whatever.

Gerrard has been good for Liverpool but Liverpool has also been good for gerrard. The club gave him his break, paid him ridiculous wages, bought some of the best players in the world for him to play beside. I'm a little tired of reading he had to ply his trade with dross when he has lined up alongside the likes of alonso, pepe, babbel, sami, Torres. Gerrard doesn't have a league title and that's unfortunate but it pisses me off when people talk about about a one man team and how we were carried completely pissing on the chips of loyal servants who contributed blood, sweat and tears to keep Liverpool among the elite.
[/quote]

What? Loyal servants like Torres and Alonso ? Where the fuck are these loyal servants you talk about? Gerrard has been fucking brilliant for us Neil, brilliant and nobody has contributed more blood sweat and tears for this club in modern times than Jamie Carragher. You're talking utter fucking shite on this one.
[/quote]

when I mentioned alonso and Torres I was talking about ability, when I was talking about 'loyal servants' I was more talking about the likes of sami. I should have made that more clear in my post. also, I haven't said that carra and gerrard haven't been brilliant (well, have I?) but their brilliance shouldn't detract from the contribution made by others while those two won trophies over the past decade.

the bottom line for me is playing for liverpool is a privilege (or at least it used to be) both carra and gerrard have been rewarded for their service with silverware, ridiculous wages and the adulation of thousands so the lack of a league title is a small cross to bear and the assumption we'll be fucked when they eventually hang up their boots is just wrong. liverpool is bigger than any one individual and brilliant as those two have been the trophies they won was made possible with the contribution of others.
 
I think the point is that yes, Liverpool gave Gerrard his break but he has surely more than repaid that. Others that have been mentioned of course made major contributions but they've gone, and he has stayed. He could quite easily have walked away and he'd have a few league titles at least by now but instead he chose to stay, and although I don't really believe in one-man teams its bloody well seemed like it at times hasn't it?
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47405.msg1421734#msg1421734 date=1320445241]
I think the point is that yes, Liverpool gave Gerrard his break but he has surely more than repaid that. Others that have been mentioned of course made major contributions but they've gone, and he has stayed. He could quite easily have walked away and he'd have a few league titles at least by now but instead he chose to stay, and although I don't really believe in one-man teams its bloody well seemed like it at times hasn't it?


[/quote]

gerrard is argubly 'the' best player ever to grace the red of liverpool and at times he has seemed superhuman but the term 'one man team' frankly makes my blood boil.
an example; the olymp game in the final group game of the CL, I saw it like this; gerrard had utterly lost the plot for the first half and was VERY lucky to still be on the pitch. on comes sinema completely grabs the game by the scruff of the scruff of the neck, scores one goal creates another goal. gerrard then becomes interested in the game again and scores possible one of the best ever european liverpool goals, he rightly takes all the plaudits 'gerrard saves liverpool, again' but without the contribution of pongolle and mellor we would have gone out no question about it. no contribution from 'dross', no CL cup.

I mean no disrespect to gerrard or carra and their contribution has been huge but others have contributed to our trophies and league position as well and will continue to contribute after they have gone.
 
Well that is why I said I didn't agree with the term one man team!

Yes of course other players have contributed to Liverpool over the last 10 years but surely everyone would concede that generally Gerrard has been head and shoulders above most of them, especially in terms of consistency, and when he has been out we've known about it!! We've had hardly any others you can say that about have we? So the term one man team, lazy as it is, is bound to come up.

As you've said, we've had relative success, but think what might have happened if we'd have had better players? That's why people feel sorry for Gerrard not having a league title. That and the fact that we KNOW he could have walked into a more successful side but chose not to
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47405.msg1421740#msg1421740 date=1320447585]
Well that is why I said I didn't agree with the term one man team!

Yes of course other players have contributed to Liverpool over the last 10 years but surely everyone would concede that generally Gerrard has been head and shoulders above most of them, especially in terms of consistency, and when he has been out we've known about it!! We've had hardly any others you can say that about have we? So the term one man team, lazy as it is, is bound to come up.

As you've said, we've had relative success, but think what might have happened if we'd have had better players? That's why people feel sorry for Gerrard not having a league title. That and the fact that we KNOW he could have walked into a more successful side but chose not to
[/quote]

I guess so. my first love is to liverpool and so I will always think a player is lucky to have liverpool rather than the other way round regardless of how talented. maybe gerrard is looking at his trophy haul and thinking he'd have more if he moved when he was younger, instead I'd hope he'd feel pride for being the captain of his local club and was able to win 'some' silverware, look at shearer and le tiss.
 
Every now and then it's fair to feel blessed to have been able to have watched a player, regardless.of how well he's been treated. People like him deserve the premiums because of the joy he has almost singlehandedly given fans. Watch that goal against Boro again, if we were ever lucky to have a player, it's him, because at his best he's magical & sheer inspirational.
 
There is an article in the Telegraph today that we want to give Gerrard a new contract.
 
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