Martin Kelly

[themn]

Come on themn, that's not what I'm saying at all, I've had concerns about him for a while, he's looked positionally suspect and let players in behind him a few times. I'm not writing him off, I'm not judging him one game, he can and needs to do better and offer more at both ends of the pitch, that's all.

It's not just you.

I haven't seen anyone defend Kelly this weekend, but at least 3 people have slagged him.

How has he suddenly become shit ?

And now Johnson is shit (again).

Oh, don't forget Enrique.

Agger is injury-prone and we should cash in.

Someone suggested playing Robinson.

Borini was gash appaz.

Gerrard doesn't give a fuck.

Suarez can't hit a thing that's really easy to hit with a big thing.

The whole team is shite !


WHAT THE FUCK DO PEOPLE WANT ?

 

[Red Mullet]

.......

Reliable to be called upon. When fit Fabio didn't start, but was a more than capable understudy


His injury record was so sad. He would have been the answer to our left back position for years

It was. His talent is unarguable and if the medics could have fixed him the he WAS the answer. But they didn't and he was injury prone so wasn't.

Reliable to be called upon was not the intent of the original post.

 

[themn]

Oh, I totally forgot about the "Pepe ain't all that" movement.

Sell everybody.

It's the only way.

 

[mark1975]

It's not just you.

I haven't seen anyone defend Kelly this weekend, but at least 3 people have slagged him.

How has he suddenly become shit ?

And now Johnson is shit (again).

Oh, don't forget Enrique.

Agger is injury-prone and we should cash in.

Someone suggested playing Robinson.

Borini was gash appaz.

Gerrard doesn't give a fuck.

Suarez can't hit a thing that's really easy to hit with a big thing.

The whole team is shite !


WHAT THE FUCK DO PEOPLE WANT ?

You're missing the point. No one is saying they're 'shit', they're just not of the standard of the players listed in the last couple of posts, it's not harsh criticism, it's just the way it is.

 

[Red Mullet]

The point still stands though, that's a separate issue, when he played he was a better performer than the current lot, by and large. We've had some good fullbacks over the last decade or so, Babbel, Riise, Finnan, Arbeloa, Heggem, Aurelio, Gerrard (when he played there).

No the point doesn't stand.

No manager could reliable call on him to play a full game. I'm not doubting his talents. He just wasn't reliable to play a simple game of football.

 

[themn]

You're missing the point. No one is saying they're 'shit', they're just not of the standard of the players listed in the last couple of posts, it's not harsh criticism, it's just the way it is.

The standard of what players ?

What have I missed ?

Don't stop me from giving up on the team now, Mark.

I'm just getting ready.

*gets ready to give up on the team*

 

[themn]

All of the players you listed (apart from Gerrard obv.) had shit thrown at them on a regular basis.

Sometimes I think people over-think shit.

Maybe this is why I think you're all fucking nuts and Football Manager-type games are ridiculous.

*continues getting ready to give up on the team*

 

[Glen C]

The point still stands though, that's a separate issue, when he played he was a better performer than the current lot, by and large. We've had some good fullbacks over the last decade or so, Babbel, Riise, Finnan, Arbeloa, Heggem, Aurelio, Gerrard (when he played there).

Out of the ones you listed only babbel, finnan and gerrard didn't get slated in that position.

Riise: Great going forward, but a liability at a back to the point that we moved him to left midfield. Then when he went back into defense he was even worse.
Arbeloa: Was getting slated at first because he was great defensively but didn't offer enough going forward hence why we went for johnson in the first place.
Heggem: Was the norweigan glen johnson. Amazing going forward but couldn't defend for toffee.
Aurelio: Same as Heggem. Yeah he had a run of good games defensively, but by and large he could get knocked off the ball at times and was suspect at the back.

I think time has made some of them seem better than they were to you. But Kelly is young and has plenty of time on his side to improve his game. He'll never be a johnson bombing forward but he'll still turn into a good player.

 

[Ossi]

Kelly is one of few player we don't need to worry about, he'll only get better with time and games.

 

[the count]

Out of the ones you listed only babbel, finnan and gerrard didn't get slated in that position.

You haven't been round these parts long enough mate, to have heard Finnan getting slated.
I know, ridiculous.

 

[themn]

You haven't been round these parts long enough mate, to have heard Finnan getting slated.
I know, ridiculous.

Yep !

 

[Ryan]

He's looked good enough in the past. I guess now it's a new regime it must be his fault.

And again.

He's looked average at best in the past. He's not a right-back, and this is not a new observation.

 

[juniormember]

If a young player hasn't had a run of games in their supposed preferred position for years, the likelihood of them ending up there eventually is probably fairly low.

Maybe Carra's the exception to the rule, but he played as a forward in youth level, then midfielder in reserves and first team level, then played right back, then left back, then right back again, before Henchoz's injury brought him to centre back before Houllier left. Rafa proceeded to keep him there at centre back ever since (there's this myth that Rafa made him a centre back, which is not true).
Kelly's limited technically but has very decent pace, good height, likes to get stuck in and is the first player to properly make it from our youth setup in years.
He needs to be given a chance over the next few years to become even better, and I don't like the criticism he's getting (not from you btw) right now.

Carra was seriously limited but turned into one of our best two centre backs in 2 decades.
Let's wait to see how he develops under Rodgers before we start making judgements. He's not even first choice for god sake.

 

[Delinquent]

You're missing the point. No one is saying they're 'shit', they're just not of the standard of the players listed in the last couple of posts, it's not harsh criticism, it's just the way it is.

I think themn's point is that it's taken just one game for people to get the knives out, despite the (deservedly) high praise the players in question received for their performances last season. Maybe best to give them all a chance to adjust to the new system before we start making cast iron judgements on them as football players (except for Downing who is obviously shit)?

 

[mark1975]

I think themn's point is that it's taken just one game for people to get the knives out, despite the (deservedly) high praise the players in question received for their performances last season. Maybe best to give them all a chance to adjust to the new system before we start making cast iron judgements on them as football players (except for Downing who is obviously shit)?

Agreed, but it wasn't a cast iron judgement based on one game, but more an expression of concern overall. Course he deserves a chance and shouldn't be written off, i just don't see anything particularly brilliant, but he's got time on his side.

 

[Mystic]

And again.

He's looked average at best in the past. He's not a right-back, and this is not a new observation.

I agree with this, I never understood the fools who thought he should be playing instead of Johnson a few years back, it's embarrassing. If he wasn't from Liverpool people wouldn't rate him nearly as high.

 

[Delinquent]

I agree with this, I never understood the fools who thought he should be playing instead of Johnson a few years back, it's embarrassing. If he wasn't from Liverpool people wouldn't rate him nearly as high.

Yes, I remember you saying at the time. Oh, hang on. No I don't.

 

[Woland]

He's dead good.

 

[Mystic]

Yes, I remember you saying at the time. Oh, hang on. No I don't.

I don't really care what you remember.

 

[Delinquent]

Did you hear that whistling sound? That was the point sailing over your head.

 

[Insignificance]

Kelly is limited as a RB. I have no clue if he is a good CB, but I just can't imagine that he is. A back up player that can fill the role when GlenJo isn't palying, but we should defo not relying on him carry the right side at any point.

 

[Mystic]

Did you hear that whistling sound? That was the point sailing over your head.

Do you hear that silence? That's the sound of your attempted humour failing miserably.

No, the point is your faulty memory doesn't change the facts, I've stuck up for Johnson as our right back for a very long time, back when in every match thread people would slate him without any reason as he'd become a scapegoat. Go and search if you want, I'll be fucked if I'm digging back through years of posts.

 

[mark1975]

Glenjo has had alot of deserved criticism though, he's docile at times, he's also got off fairly lightly for closing down Gera's shot like a big fucking girl.

 

[Mystic]

Glenjo has had alot of deserved criticism though, he's docile at times, he's also got off fairly lightly for closing down Gera's shot like a big fucking girl.

Johnson was the only one who even tried to get there and nearly did, we should have had someone on the edge of the area.

 

[mark1975]

Johnson was the only one who even tried to get there and nearly did, we should have had someone on the edge of the area.

There's no point moving to close down the shot but then turning your back before you even get there though.. It was shit marking all round really. The defense was pants all game.

 

[Mystic]

There's no point moving to close down the shot but then turning your back before you even get there though.. It was shit marking all round really. The defense was pants all game.

I was under the impression they turned there back to avoid handballing the shot, I thought thats how they were trained? Still we can both agree on the last part, clearly the defence hadn't left preseason.

 

[Delinquent]

Do you hear that silence? That's the sound of your attempted humour failing miserably.

No, the point is your faulty memory doesn't change the facts, I've stuck up for Johnson as our right back for a very long time, back when in every match thread people would slate him without any reason as he'd become a scapegoat. Go and search if you want, I'll be fucked if I'm digging back through years of posts.

I'm not talking about sticking up for Johnson.

I just find it interesting that your (cut and dried) opinion of Martin Kelly should emerge after a bad performance in our first game of the season, under a new manager, when the entire back line were all over the place. I would have expected someone who felt so strongly about his lack of quality to have been more vociferous in their opposition when he was being heralded for his performances last season.

It's almost as if you're jumping on board the bandwagon of doom, claiming you knew where it was going all along. My bad though. Clearly I've got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Insignificance]

I'm not talking about sticking up for Johnson.

I just find it interesting that your (cut and dried) opinion of Martin Kelly should emerge after a bad performance in our first game of the season, under a new manager, when the entire back line were all over the place. I would have expected someone who felt so strongly about his lack of quality to have been more vociferous in their opposition when he was being heralded for his performances last season.

It's almost as if you're jumping on board the bandwagon of doom, claiming you knew where it was going all along. My bad though. Clearly I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Do you think he has the potential to put in much better performances? He is a bit to easy to read when going forward, but he puts in forward runs. he is nothing special tracking back. he is probably a nice lad, and he can cover. But I seriously doubt he got it in him to take it to the next level.

 

[Mystic]

I'm not talking about sticking up for Johnson.

I just find it interesting that your (cut and dried) opinion of Martin Kelly should emerge after a bad performance in our first game of the season, under a new manager, when the entire back line were all over the place. I would have expected someone who felt so strongly about his lack of quality to have been more vociferous in their opposition when he was being heralded for his performances last season.

It's almost as if you're jumping on board the bandwagon of doom, claiming you knew where it was going all along. My bad though. Clearly I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Well, my original point was about how Johnson should play ahead of him, and you decided to challenge how long term my stance on that was, so actually yes you were talking about that, maybe you should try thinking before posting.

I'm gonna bite on this rubbish your posting, seems as clearly you have a running timeline on everyone's opinion of players on this forum, I've held the opinion that Kelly is overrated because he's from Liverpool for a very long time, I don't think he's rubbish, I just don't think he's ready to start ahead of Johnson like a lot of people have implied in the past (less so last year) and I wouldn't want him as first choice right back, I'm sure one of the more "credible" posters could back that up.

I notice how you wait for my post half way down page two to make this accusation despite numerous people posting the same opinion before hand, is it only me who capable of jumping onto bandwagons then or just the fact that you're too scared to question the opinion of the big boys?

 

[Delinquent]

My first post in this thread was a general one, which was critical of

Well, my original point was about how Johnson should play ahead of him, and you decided to challenge how long term my stance on that was, so actually yes you were talking about that, maybe you should try thinking before posting.

No, that was your incorrect interpretation of my initial post, which I have since clarified for you.

I'm gonna bite on this rubbish your posting, seems as clearly you have a running timeline on everyone's opinion of players on this forum, I've held the opinion that Kelly is overrated because he's from Liverpool for a very long time, I don't think he's rubbish, I just don't think he's ready to start ahead of Johnson like a lot of people have implied in the past (less so last year) and I wouldn't want him as first choice right back, I'm sure one of the more "credible" posters could back that up.

On the one hand you seem quite bold and scathing, but on the other you seem concerned about how valid I think your opinion is. It's true that I think you're wrong a lot, but I don't take that into consideration when replying to individual posts. If it makes you feel better, the slate will be wiped clean once more after this little episode, and you'll have yet another opportunity to impress. Every cloud, eh?

I notice how you wait for my post half way down page two to make this accusation despite numerous people posting the same opinion before hand, is it only me who capable of jumping onto bandwagons then or just the fact that you're too scared to question the opinion of the big boys?

My first post in this thread was one questioning the general reaction, and being rather obviously critical of it. It was in response to mark's post. Is he one of the big boys? I think your inferiority complex is getting the better of you.