Our 'implosion'...

[LeTallecWiz]

LTW you dont half talk some shite about Benitez, you just cant give a any type of credit can you?



You were writing Rafa and this season off as a stone cold failure a couple of months ago, it was a silly statement then and looks even sillier now, hes just won Napoli only their 2nd trophy in 25 years and got them in the CL, if Napoli win their last game of the season the will finish on exactly the same points as last year, i bet the Napoli fans are in despair at that failure of a season.



The Juventus excuse is weak stick to beat Benitez with as well, they are head and shoulders above anything in that league, 100 odd points tells you all you need to know about that, maybe Juve will be weakened next season with some of their players leaving and Benitez can make Napoli stronger and close the gap, just have to wait and see on that one.

I don't view this season as a success for Napoli - they spent 100 million, lost even more ground on Juve, and couldn't get it done in either European tournament (Rafa's bread and butter). I don't think he's improved them much - which is why I don't view the season as a success (Regardless of the cup win, and regardless of getting them into the CL - something the team did last year too).

Juventus - before Conte - finished 7th place twice in a row. He came in, and 3 years he's won serie A (kinda hurts Modo's ridiculous 'They're Bayern of Italy' argument, considering Bayern's track record, even when they're shite) ... Are they the best team in Italy? Sure, but I'd think if a team that finish 2nd place behind them spent 100 million, they'd get closer to them, not further away ...

As for your first sentence - I get it. Like Modo, you are a realistic poster ... and you think when people speak their mind about Benitez, it's either one way or another (I can see how you ignored the valid points made to Modo that even he backed off from) ... so I'll try and rehash as I tend to take the middle path: He's done nothing this year that wasn't expected ... He's not improved last year's Napoli team ... That DOES NOT mean he's not a very good manager, or still one of the best in the world in knock out competitions. He's done a 'safe' job at Napoli ... Not something I rate as highly as you do.

 

[Dreambeliever]

This thread should be renamed, would Rafa have been a safe/good choice after Kenny?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

There is no doubt about that league wise, its similar to Gerrards mistake in that it some try and whitewash it and point in other directions away from the obvious.

Never before or since have i expected Liverpool to lose games every week, even at Anfield to the relegation scrappers, it was beyond dreadful.

We weren't that bad ... You make it seem as if we finished 16th ... We finished 7th - and were shite more games than not - a mid-table team (just like we were in Rafa's last season, but hey - let's try and whitewash it, and point in other directions away from the obvious 🙂)

 

[peterhague]

We weren't that bad ... You make it seem as if we finished 16th ... We finished 7th - and were shite more games than not - a mid-table team (just like we were in Rafa's last season, but hey - let's try and whitewash it, and point in other directions away from the obvious 🙂)

We *were* that bad. 52 points, and no extenuating circumstances at all, and following perhaps the biggest investment in the squad since Houllier's early days.

It was a total disgrace. Worse even than Hodgson.

 

[mark1975]

We all know what Rafa is and isn't. A great cup manager who's more talented when given a squad than when he's asked to build. Ask him to build and he needs shit loads of money to get it right. And then moans when the purse strings are tightened. He went at the right time, we suffered at the hands of his own stubborn nature. While he did fight tooth and nail with G&H, there was as much an agenda about wanting more money to throw at the squad, to rectify his own costly fuck ups. The owners might have bled us dry, but Rafa was the one pissing money away.

People seem to forget that when he was at Liverpool, he didn't have City to contend with. The competition for Euope wasn't quite so wide spread either. He did great with Chelsea, but as said earlier, it was a ready made squad with £80m worth of talent on the bench alone.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

We *were* that bad. 52 points, and no extenuating circumstances at all, and following perhaps the biggest investment in the squad since Houllier's early days.

It was a total disgrace. Worse even than Hodgson.

It was a terrible season (our worst standing wise since 1994 - I looked it up!) - but being that bad is struggling in the bottom half of the table (which I guess we were form wise 2nd half) ... I know it was bad because of the investment - check that, embarrassing - but it was sadly a continuation of the path we were on.

How we've turned it around so quickly is a miracle (as I said, we got very lucky).

 

[mark1975]

It was a terrible season (our worst standing wise since 1994 - I looked it up!) - but being that bad is struggling in the bottom half of the table (which I guess we were form wise 2nd half) ... I know it was bad because of the investment - check that, embarrassing - but it was sadly a continuation of the path we were on.

How we've turned it around so quickly is a miracle (as I said, we got very lucky).

I don't think we got lucky at all. I think full credit must go to the owners. They gave the fans their choice and then had the mental strength to change it and go with their own choice, who up to now has done exceptionally well. Taking Kenny out the equation could have alienated them, bigtime. You need owners who will make necessary gambles. The reason we've stagnated in the past, is because we've been too keen to uphold traditions and afford people too much time and to not move forward with the times.

In the past, the managerial candidates would be obvious and of a certain breed or link to the club, this was a breath of fresh air really.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I don't think we got lucky at all. I think full credit must go to the owners. They gave the fans their choice and then had the mental strength to change it and go with their own choice, who up to now has done exceptionally well. Taking Kenny out the equation could have alienated them, bigtime. You need owners who will make necessary gambles. The reason we've stagnated in the past, is because we've been too keen to uphold traditions and afford people too much time and to not move forward with the times.

In the past, the managerial candidates would be obvious and of a certain breed or link to the club, this was a breath of fresh air really.

I still think we got lucky - letting go of Kenny was the right move (and done the right way), but we hired a man who could have easily continued us on that path (and it seemed he may during his first few months). That he's turned out to be so good (so far) is maybe a testament - as you say - to the owners taking a 'necessary gamble' ... I put down to also good luck ... Which we've been lacking for a long time.

 

[mark1975]

I still think we got lucky - letting go of Kenny was the right move (and done the right way), but we hired a man who could have easily continued us on that path (and it seemed he may during his first few months). That he's turned out to be so good (so far) is maybe a testament - as you say - to the owners taking a 'necessary gamble' ... I put down to also good luck ... Which we've been lacking for a long time.

Managers can go either way. They identified enough promise in him, it's as difficult to go for a top tier manager who will guarantee success. How many are there really?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Managers can go either way. They identified enough promise in him, it's as difficult to go for a top tier manager who will guarantee success. How many are there really?

Pep, Mourinho, Van Gaal (I hope not, but his record is excellent), Hiddink, Capello (?) ...

 

[mark1975]

Pep, Mourinho, Van Gaal (I hope not, but his record is excellent), Hiddink, Capello (?) ...

I know, but then you look at someone like Capello and even then there are alarm bells. He doesn't have a great record against English sides, is even more pragmatic than Rafa, you have to look down the line and think about in 2-3 years when you haven't won the league for that reason, the fans are groaning at narrow results against minnows and you have to change it again. It's all *ifs* I know, but like I said, there are gambles either way and besides that, it's rare that the big names like those mentioned, ever want to come here, not when the alternatives are clubs with even bigger transfer budgets.

 

[Modo]

I don't view this season as a success for Napoli - they spent 100 million, lost even more ground on Juve, and couldn't get it done in either European tournament (Rafa's bread and butter). I don't think he's improved them much - which is why I don't view the season as a success (Regardless of the cup win, and regardless of getting them into the CL - something the team did last year too).

Juventus - before Conte - finished 7th place twice in a row. He came in, and 3 years he's won serie A (kinda hurts Modo's ridiculous 'They're Bayern of Italy' argument, considering Bayern's track record, even when they're shite) ... Are they the best team in Italy? Sure, but I'd think if a team that finish 2nd place behind them spent 100 million, they'd get closer to them, not further away ...

As for your first sentence - I get it. Like Modo, you are a realistic poster ... and you think when people speak their mind about Benitez, it's either one way or another (I can see how you ignored the valid points made to Modo that even he backed off from) ... so I'll try and rehash as I tend to take the middle path: He's done nothing this year that wasn't expected ... He's not improved last year's Napoli team ... That DOES NOT mean he's not a very good manager, or still one of the best in the world in knock out competitions. He's done a 'safe' job at Napoli ... Not something I rate as highly as you do.

We weren't that bad ... You make it seem as if we finished 16th ... We finished 7th - and were shite more games than not - a mid-table team (just like we were in Rafa's last season, but hey - let's try and whitewash it, and point in other directions away from the obvious 🙂)

You write all this about Benitez, then you say that getting 52 points after spending over 100 million is not bad?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

You write all this about Benitez, then you say that getting 52 points after spending over 100 million is not bad?

I don't think it's worth trying to have a serious debate with you ... You won, well done.

 

[Oncy]

Fuck me you lot are dismal.
For all the fucking bleating about Palace it didnt and wouldnt have made a blind bit of difference.
We lost to Chelsea (who beat pretty much every top side home and away) and that cost us. There is no shame in losing to Chelsea, they are a top side who played better than us on the day. If we had beaten Palace 8 nil it wouldnt have mattered a fuck because we still would have finished second. So while the 3-3 was a shit thing to watch as a fan it has no bearing on the result of the league title at all.

So if you think losing ONE game since January against the second richest team in England, the team most tipped for the title is embarrassing and throwing it away then what can be said other than fair play. Each to his own I suppose.
I am broken hearted we didnt beat Chelsea, but im not going to call anyone a coward, this team went on an unbelievable run and came unstuck against one of the very best teams after winning 11 on the spin. Im proud of what they achieved and cant see capitulation in any of that. We beat Man Utd, Spurs, Everton and Man City on that run and losing to any of those and beating Chelsea would still have had the same result. We still would have finished second. Thats what it would have taken to win this league. Perfection from Jan 1.
We came fucking close to perfection.

 

[gkmacca]

I can sense a massive flounce in the making...

Try and hold it in, there's a dear.

 

[Jack D Rips]

If we had got a result against Chelsea I don't believe we would had conceded a 3 goal lead against Palace. There again maybe we wouldn't have had a 3 goal lead anyway. Who knows.

There are so many different scenarios that could have won it for us. A win at Hull, a win at home to Southampton, a draw away to City. But we also have to remember that City also dropped unlikely points.

The fact is that we needed 40 points out of the last 42 to win the league. We got 37. Implosion my arse!

 

[cloggypop]

This thread should be renamed, would Rafa have been a safe/good choice after Kenny?

This thread is perfectly named for the content

 

[StevieM]

So anyway.... I thought Michael Owen looked pretty sharp in the Hillsborough game.

I think he could still do a job for us and we should coax him out if retirement.

.... and the "D" is funnier if it's not silent.

 

[gkmacca]

'I am your father!'


Top work, Big Man!

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Wait, the D is silent? I always thought it was the J that was silent.

 

[nealmac]

Fuck me you lot are dismal.
For all the fucking bleating about Palace it didnt and wouldnt have made a blind bit of difference.
We lost to Chelsea (who beat pretty much every top side home and away) and that cost us. There is no shame in losing to Chelsea, they are a top side who played better than us on the day. If we had beaten Palace 8 nil it wouldnt have mattered a fuck because we still would have finished second. So while the 3-3 was a shit thing to watch as a fan it has no bearing on the result of the league title at all.

So if you think losing ONE game since January against the second richest team in England, the team most tipped for the title is embarrassing and throwing it away then what can be said other than fair play. Each to his own I suppose.
I am broken hearted we didnt beat Chelsea, but im not going to call anyone a coward, this team went on an unbelievable run and came unstuck against one of the very best teams after winning 11 on the spin. Im proud of what they achieved and cant see capitulation in any of that. We beat Man Utd, Spurs, Everton and Man City on that run and losing to any of those and beating Chelsea would still have had the same result. We still would have finished second. Thats what it would have taken to win this league. Perfection from Jan 1.
We came fucking close to perfection.

I only had to read about a 3rd of this post before I gave it a like.

 

[gkmacca]

 

[Ryan]

Just so you know Macca, I posted your PM to me in here for all to see but the Mods took it down.

Didn't want you to think I panicked - I was fucking happy for everyone to view your moany wailing.

 

[gkmacca]

Great post big man.

 

[Ryan]

Great post big man.

Friends forever.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Finally - enjoy the make up sex lads! 🙂

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

I don't view this season as a success for Napoli - they spent 100 million, lost even more ground on Juve, and couldn't get it done in either European tournament (Rafa's bread and butter). I don't think he's improved them much - which is why I don't view the season as a success (Regardless of the cup win, and regardless of getting them into the CL - something the team did last year too).

Juventus - before Conte - finished 7th place twice in a row. He came in, and 3 years he's won serie A (kinda hurts Modo's ridiculous 'They're Bayern of Italy' argument, considering Bayern's track record, even when they're shite) ... Are they the best team in Italy? Sure, but I'd think if a team that finish 2nd place behind them spent 100 million, they'd get closer to them, not further away ...

As for your first sentence - I get it. Like Modo, you are a realistic poster ... and you think when people speak their mind about Benitez, it's either one way or another (I can see how you ignored the valid points made to Modo that even he backed off from) ... so I'll try and rehash as I tend to take the middle path: He's done nothing this year that wasn't expected ... He's not improved last year's Napoli team ... That DOES NOT mean he's not a very good manager, or still one of the best in the world in knock out competitions. He's done a 'safe' job at Napoli ... Not something I rate as highly as you do.

You do make some fair and vaild points for sure but its hard to understand the overall point of Napoli's season not being a success, i think the Cup on top of 3rd makes it a success, if after Rodgers spends 60/70 mill this summer we finish 3rd on a similar point tally and win the FA Cup next season that will be a success wont it?, even if we do poor in Europe i would be happy with that for a season, tbh ild take that now in an instant.

Always had a bit of a gripe when people do down Rafas achievements, especially our own fans, hes certainly not perfect by any means and has made mistakes for sure but near on every manager out there would kill for his CV, maybe you expect too much?

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

We weren't that bad ... You make it seem as if we finished 16th ... We finished 7th - and were shite more games than not - a mid-table team (just like we were in Rafa's last season, but hey - let's try and whitewash it, and point in other directions away from the obvious 🙂)

We were that bad, really not just making that up about expecting to lose every week after Xmas, honestly it was like supporting a different club.

Correct me if wrong but our record in the last half of the season was something like 5-3-11, 18 points from 19 games, thank fuck that wasn't the start of the season and we managed 34 points in the first 19 games, that was after spending 120 odd million on players as well, just absolutely shocking and thats an understatement, i dont know how anyone can deny it was anything but abysmal, it was 8th we finished as well just edging out Fulham on goal difference from 9th.

You have me wrong LTW, im not that petty tit for tatter, as mentioned in the post above Rafa made mistakes with us for sure, thats easy to admit because he actually did, no whitewashes at all, but lets be honest about it Rafa mistakes were nowhere near the absolute shambolic mess Kenny (and DC) made.

This ain't a Kenny bashing thing either, its just being honest about what happened.

 

[Rosco]

If this doesn't get back on topic soon it'll be closed.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

You do make some fair and vaild points for sure but its hard to understand the overall point of Napoli's season not being a success, i think the Cup on top of 3rd makes it a success, if after Rodgers spends 60/70 mill this summer we finish 3rd on a similar point tally and win the FA Cup next season that will be a success wont it?, even if we do poor in Europe i would be happy with that for a season, tbh ild take that now in an instant.



Always had a bit of a gripe when people do down Rafas achievements, especially our own fans, hes certainly not perfect by any means and has made mistakes for sure but near on every manager out there would kill for his CV, maybe you expect too much?

I would bite your hand off for 3rd and any cup because it's absolutely essential for our club's future to stay in the CL. I'd consider 3rd a step backward to a degree, but based on what I said before, would be happy with it overall.

I don't have a problem with Rafa's achievement ... for turning Carra into what he became, for 25.5.2005, for the run to Athens, for Torres, for the youth academy ... He did a lot of good but I often find people ignore the issues he created ...and I think that rubs many people off wrong. I'm not in the RCDNW or RCDNR camp - I think I'm in the middle.

His resume is well above that of many managers, no arguments there.