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Post Match - Lille

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Ryan

The Prophet
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I thought the performance was a good one. I did. In the grand scheme of things we lost, but after Monday night's effort I was looking for signs of improvement, and a performance more befitting of a Top side. I don't think they threatened a lot. Sure we offered up space, and they kept the ball reasonably well but I can't think of too many clearcut chances on their part. The goal was a fucking fluke. Things like that happen. I don't even think it was a free-kick in the first place.

As predicted, the side Rafa put out was a strong one. no fucking about with maybe's, could-be's, and possibilities. Just stick your strongest available side out and get the set up right. Our structure was interesting, if predictable. I don't think I've ever seen a side more determined to keep their shape and remain solid than us tonight. Every single time they got the ball there was a clear determination to get 8/9 men behind the ball. So fuck if they're in possession, they've got to play through you. Mascherano never left our half. Lucas for the most part stood no more than 5 metres from Mascher, Kuyt tucked in really really tightly, and Glenjo barely ventured forward. Solid as fuck. If anything, we dropped a little bit too deep in midfield on occassion. i know this was to prevent their strikers dropping deep and receiving and running at us, but it meant Torres was a little isolated, and the gap to the strikers was a bit too large at some points.

I liked the plan to free-up Babel. Don't think Glenjo didn't get forward because he's not fit enough to do so yet. Don't think Kuyt's lack of adventure was down to lack of interest. There was a clear plan to attack qucikly through Babel, and to alleviate him of defensive responsibilites. Getthe ball to him, shuffle the midfield across, bring Kuyt inside, and keep Glenjo at right-back. I thought it worked well. If Babel had have scored that first half chance, it would have been a fucking masterplan. Anyway, that's how to play Babel. Give him the ball early, and cover his arse the other way. He played well, and he'll start games from now to the end of the season if he keeps that up. There's simply no way you can play him and Aquilani in the same team though. Mascherano can only do so much. It's one or the other I'm afraid.

Torres is fucking me off. I've had more than enough of him falling on his arse, sliding about on his knees at the slightest of touches, and then berating the referee for fuck all. Why is he so concerned with the referee? Why does he need to go to ground so often? Someone needs to have a word. If you're going to laud his goals and contribution when he's on song, then he's gotta accept criticism the other way too. Nobody can tell me that bullshit is benefitting the team in anyway.

Lille aren't bad. They keep the ball well, move quite effectively, and break from midfield with aplomb. Interesting how the strikers drop so deep to receive possession, which caused a bit of a problem for the first 20 minutes. I guess that's to be expected if you've been playing in the Champions League for the last 6 years. They don't really hurt you though. I didn't see much guile or real killer threat when going forward. They're beatabale, and if we play well next week we'll show that.

All in all, I was content with that peformance. With 8 minutes to go I felt we'd done all the right things, just cos a fucking joke of a goal goes in doesn't mean we played badly. If we'd buried one of the handful of good chances we'd had we'd be very happy right now.
 
I agree with pretty much all of that Ryan. The performance was a massive improvement, we actually looked like scoring this time even if we didn't.

One of these days, though, you're going to start a new thread on our latest defeat, have it all ready in your head and then just type "fuck it, they're all cunts."

And then, you'll be one of us, My Son.
 
I loved the way that fucking cunt Lucarse stayed so close to Masher and helped us keep our shape.

What's that? It was the *wrong* shape?

Oh dear!

*laughs*
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068076#msg1068076 date=1268349984]
Ha, yeah possibly.
[/quote]Dont for fuck sake. You're my constant. I need you to keep being you and keep being positive, or I'll kill everyone I know with an axe.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39256.msg1068079#msg1068079 date=1268350060]
I loved the way that fucking cunt Lucarse stayed so close to Masher and helped us keep our shape.

What's that? It was the *wrong* shape?

Oh dear!

*laughs*
[/quote]

Stop being a cock.
 
And the first thing I'm thinking is why does a team like liverpool, and gerrard, and torres, why do they have to be so solid, work hard and get men behind the ball to contain lille?
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=39256.msg1068097#msg1068097 date=1268350654]
And the first thing I'm thinking is why does a team like liverpool, and gerrard, and torres, why do they have to be so solid, work hard and get men behind the ball to contain lille?

[/quote]

Because:

That's how 90% of teams set up and play when they go away in Europe.
We're coming off the back of a shit result and performance, one that saw us get strung open.
The system was set-up to free-up Babel & Torres, which it did.
 
You're right on that today but you're being deceitful, because you surely know we're going to play the same cowardly way against portsmouth, and then in the return leg.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068135#msg1068135 date=1268352195]
Great news lads, the whole match is on lfctv again now.
[/quote]

Maybe I'm on my own but I didn't think it was a bad game. I didn't feel like I did when watching the Wigan game, and sta there trying to count the amount of fucking things we did wrong. Tonight was a decent performance and the way we played was admirable enough.

Of course we got beat which is fucking gay, but if we play like tonight, creating the chances we did from now on then we'll not have to much to complain about.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=39256.msg1068137#msg1068137 date=1268352259]
You're right on that today but you're being deceitful, because you surely know we're going to play the same cowardly way against portsmouth, and then in the return leg.
[/quote]

let me have a weekend without thinking we're going to fuck up just this once.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068018#msg1068018 date=1268348071]
There's simply no way you can play him and Aquilani in the same team though. Mascherano can only do so much. It's one or the other I'm afraid.
[/quote]

Two attack-minded players in the same midfield? Heaven forbid!

There really shouldn't need to be so much emphasis on 'defensive solidarity' with our centre midfield pairing. Just as important is the ability to pass the ball effectively. Of course, it helps having Masher there offering protection for when our attacks break down, but he shouldn't need Lucas to hold his hand the whole time. The need to play two defensive midfielders should really only arise a handful of times a season, and even then only when we're away to the top sides. The way you're talking it's as if we should be playing like an away team every game.

The fact of the matter is if we could retain the ball better and offer a bit more of an attacking threat then the opposition would be more wary of us and we wouldn't need two defensive midfielders as a safety net. Of course, I realise the need to babysit Insua isn't helping much either. Our whole game is stifled by caution when it should be other teams that are cautious of us. Seriously, how many teams are going to be intimidated by the sight of Masher and Lucas in the centre of the midfield? It's like an open invitation to push up the field and have a go at us.

Ultimately, we're set up to defend - our attack is little more than an afterthought at present. I for one would like to see a bit more emphasis on scoring goals. That is how you win games after all. If that means pushing the boat out and playing with just the one defensive midfielder instead of two then hey, call me Billy Big Bollocks but I think it's worth a try. Particularly when plan A has seen us lose 15 games this season anyway. And if it means our £20m Alonso replacement gets a few games under his belt then so much the better.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068141#msg1068141 date=1268352494]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068135#msg1068135 date=1268352195]
Great news lads, the whole match is on lfctv again now.
[/quote]

Maybe I'm on my own but I didn't think it was a bad game. I didn't feel like I did when watching the Wigan game, and sta there trying to count the amount of fucking things we did wrong. Tonight was a decent performance and the way we played was admirable enough.

Of course we got beat which is fucking gay, but if we play like tonight, creating the chances we did from now on then we'll not have to much to complain about.
[/quote]

I thought the first half was very poor all round. It was like a pre season friendly at times. We seemed to lack hunger and interet.

I agree about Torres and his poor attitude. It is stinking at times. I wish he would just concentrate on shutting up the defenders by making them look like cunts instead of moaning and gesticulating at the ref.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39256.msg1068150#msg1068150 date=1268352752]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068018#msg1068018 date=1268348071]
There's simply no way you can play him and Aquilani in the same team though. Mascherano can only do so much. It's one or the other I'm afraid.
[/quote]

Two attack-minded players in the same midfield? Heaven forbid!

There really shouldn't need to be so much emphasis on 'defensive solidarity' with our centre midfield pairing. Just as important is the ability to pass the ball effectively. Of course, it helps having Masher there offering protection for when our attacks break down, but he shouldn't need Lucas to hold his hand the whole time. The need to play two defensive midfielders should really only arise a handful of times a season, and even then only when we're away to the top sides. The way you're talking it's as if we should be playing like an away team every game.

The fact of the matter is if we could retain the ball better and offer a bit more of an attacking threat then the opposition would be more wary of us and we wouldn't need two defensive midfielders as a safety net. Of course, I realise the need to babysit Insua isn't helping much either. Our whole game is stifled by caution when it should be other teams that are cautious of us. Seriously, how many teams are going to be intimidated by the sight of Masher and Lucas in the centre of the midfield? It's like an open invitation to push up the field and have a go at us.

Ultimately, we're set up to defend - our attack is little more than an afterthought at present. I for one would like to see a bit more emphasis on scoring goals. That is how you win games after all. If that means pushing the boat out and playing with just the one defensive midfielder instead of two then hey, call me Billy Big Bollocks but I think it's worth a try. Particularly when plan A has seen us lose 15 games this season anyway. And if it means our £20m Alonso replacement gets a few games under his belt then so much the better.
[/quote]

And what sides are scared of attacking intent when they look at Song and denilson in centre midfield? Or Palacios and Huddlestone? Or Petrov and Reo-Coker? Or even Fletcher & Carrick?

We obviously see things differently Del. But for me, if you've got a team with Gerrard, Babel, Aquilani, Torres, Johnson, Kuyt, etc etc in it - then relying on one holding midfielder to cover all of that is suicidial. We set up with Lucas and Mascherano because it gives others the opportunity to go forward freely and without fear they're going to be burned on the counter attack.

If you play Masher and Aquilani for example tonight, then you get less out of Babel going forward. That's how it works.
 
Huddlestone can pass the ball forward effectively. Ditto Petrov. Ditto Carrick. Neither one of them is that great at tackling though, interestingly.

And of course the other glaring difference between us and the teams you've mentioned is that they all attack at pace and with real purpose. They commit bodies forward, which is obviously a necessary requirement of the system you're endorsing. We don't do any of the above, hence the reason Torres looks so isolated and frustrated all of the time.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39256.msg1068170#msg1068170 date=1268354761]
Huddlestone can pass the ball forward effectively. Ditto Petrov. Ditto Carrick. Neither one of them is that great at tackling though, interestingly.

And of course the other glaring difference between us and the teams you've mentioned is that they all attack at pace and with real purpose. They commit bodies forward, which is obviously a necessary requirement of the system you're endorsing. We don't do any of the above, hence the reason Torres looks so isolated and frustrated all of the time.
[/quote]

Well they move the ball quicker than us, yes. Especially when they're attacking.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068158#msg1068158 date=1268353432]

We obviously see things differently Del. But for me, if you've got a team with Gerrard, Babel, Aquilani, Torres, Johnson, Kuyt, etc etc in it

[/quote]

I'd love to know when you've seen all of those players on the field at the same time.
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39256.msg1068189#msg1068189 date=1268357237]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068158#msg1068158 date=1268353432]

We obviously see things differently Del. But for me, if you've got a team with Gerrard, Babel, Aquilani, Torres, Johnson, Kuyt, etc etc in it

[/quote]

I'd love to know when you've seen all of those players on the field at the same time.
[/quote]

Aston Villa away, we had all of them bar Babel.

All bar one of them was playing tonight.

Plus it's the players that people advocate in their pre-game team selections every single week.
 
Hey, I'm all for them being out there at the same time (well except Dirk, he needs benching for a while), but even if they were then the way we're shaping up at the mo it's not a brilliant attacking line up. IMO Gerrard should be in midfield until he regains some form/stops sulking, he can defend and attack as opposed to Lucas who can't really do either.
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39256.msg1068201#msg1068201 date=1268360272]
Hey, I'm all for them being out there at the same time (well except Dirk, he needs benching for a while), but even if they were then the way we're shaping up at the mo it's not a brilliant attacking line up. IMO Gerrard should be in midfield until he regains some form/stops sulking, he can defend and attack as opposed to Lucas who can't really do either.
[/quote]

Look at it this way mate:

On Monday night we went with a more attacking midfield than tonight and did not create one single chance or shot on target. We played with one holding midfielder, and not once in the entire 90 minutes were we able to get through wigan.

Tonight, against a better side, we went with two holding midfielders (three actually cos Kuyt never went forward) to purposely free-up Babel, Gerrard and Torres. And we could have scored 3. We opened up Lille tonight a few times, and but for better finishing in front of goal we'd have won.
 
I get why you are of that opinion, but if you watch Lucas for a lot of the game (and I did tonight) then it's scary just how little he offers. I'm not saying don't have two players in a holding role, but there's got to be a better combination in our squad that Masch-Lucas. That's why I said about Gerrard playing in that role, because he offers a bit of something (usually, before this season anyway) in both an attacking and defending capacity.
 
Mate, I'd fucking love an Alonso in there, or a Scholes, or a Fletcher, or an Essien, but we've got what we've got.

For tonight, the team that went out there was the right one, the system was the right one as it allowed our better, more attacking players the opportunity to go forward without restriction, and for the most part - the rest of the season will see 90% of that team going out every week - cos it's our best team.

If we're looking to strengthen this summer, then I'd be all over adding attacking quality to that team, and someone who can pass the fucking ball and dictate the tempo. I'm not 100% sure if Aquilani can or will be that player to be honest, and I don't think Rafa is either.
 
I have my doubts about Alberto too, though I really do think he's being played out of position. He isn't the same type of player as Alonso, for me he needs to be playing just in front of the 2 in midfield rather than in it.
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=39256.msg1068212#msg1068212 date=1268364513]
I have my doubts about Alberto too, though I really do think he's being played out of position. He isn't the same type of player as Alonso, for me he needs to be playing just in front of the 2 in midfield rather than in it.
[/quote]

He needs to be playing in Gerrard's position, but that's never gonna happen for a myriad reasons.

I wonder why he was bought sometimes.
 
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