Rafa: 'Fine-Tuning needed, not an overhaul'
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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870872#msg870872 date=1242780717]
If he uses this excuse next season I'll abduct him and hang him by his ears myself.
Bloody hell. Maybe that's the way he operates, always preparing an escape route to save his ass in the event of failure but that pissed me off.
Rafa has made progress this season because the team has started playing to its potential. I'm not suggesting I was alone in saying it but I've said for a couple of seasons the team had far more attacking potency than it is being allowed to demonstrate. This season - with the exception of December / January - we started to show that potency and the result is we pushed the mancs all the way.
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
[/quote]
If he uses this excuse next season I'll abduct him and hang him by his ears myself.
Bloody hell. Maybe that's the way he operates, always preparing an escape route to save his ass in the event of failure but that pissed me off.
Rafa has made progress this season because the team has started playing to its potential. I'm not suggesting I was alone in saying it but I've said for a couple of seasons the team had far more attacking potency than it is being allowed to demonstrate. This season - with the exception of December / January - we started to show that potency and the result is we pushed the mancs all the way.
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
I really can't be arsed getting into the specifics of net spend Vs gross spend, cos it's boring as fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Ferdinand - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
That's 220M on 8 players, only 5 of whom are regular starters.
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane, one of which we got shut of.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Ferdinand - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
That's 220M on 8 players, only 5 of whom are regular starters.
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane, one of which we got shut of.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870888#msg870888 date=1242790825]
I really can't be arsed getting into the specifics of net spend Vs gross spend, cos it's boring as fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
[/quote]
I'm not going to get into the discussion on net vs gross either mate; its been done to death.
My point is illustrated by the examples you use. Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson (the juries out with Berbatov) are examples of Ferguson spending a lot on one player. None are regulars in the first team - many manc supporters think Nani and Hargreaves have been a waste. But, you guessed it, Ferguson has not gone out and spent another 40 to 50m on other players.
As you say Rafa has spent quite a bit but its him who has taken the decision to spend big money on a lot of players rather than big money on a few players. Yes he needed a squad but he needed quality to make the move IMO.
Either way I think, as you say, he needs to shut up on the excuses. He's done an excellent job this season in releasing the talent and focusing it. Not perfect but who is? He's now set the bench mark and if he can't exceed this level next season with 30 to 40m then he can trot out all the excuses he likes - I won't be buying them.
I really can't be arsed getting into the specifics of net spend Vs gross spend, cos it's boring as fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
[/quote]
I'm not going to get into the discussion on net vs gross either mate; its been done to death.
My point is illustrated by the examples you use. Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson (the juries out with Berbatov) are examples of Ferguson spending a lot on one player. None are regulars in the first team - many manc supporters think Nani and Hargreaves have been a waste. But, you guessed it, Ferguson has not gone out and spent another 40 to 50m on other players.
As you say Rafa has spent quite a bit but its him who has taken the decision to spend big money on a lot of players rather than big money on a few players. Yes he needed a squad but he needed quality to make the move IMO.
Either way I think, as you say, he needs to shut up on the excuses. He's done an excellent job this season in releasing the talent and focusing it. Not perfect but who is? He's now set the bench mark and if he can't exceed this level next season with 30 to 40m then he can trot out all the excuses he likes - I won't be buying them.
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
I actually thought I had included RioMERKED YA CUNT.
More fuel to the fire I suppose.
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
I actually thought I had included RioMERKED YA CUNT.
More fuel to the fire I suppose.
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
My Spanish is a bit rusty, but I'm hoping that 'fine-tuning' in Spanish translates to 'pacy, goal-scoring quality player who can play wide or up front'
Either that or 'binning Lucarse'
Either that or 'binning Lucarse'
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=33626.msg870939#msg870939 date=1242802708]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870922#msg870922 date=1242800832]
Actually, I forgot about Mascherano.
[/quote]
I think someone forgot about Cisse.
[/quote]
Cisse wasn't a Rafa signing - he was Ged's.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870922#msg870922 date=1242800832]
Actually, I forgot about Mascherano.
[/quote]
I think someone forgot about Cisse.
[/quote]
Cisse wasn't a Rafa signing - he was Ged's.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
30 million plus sales is a lot of money - doseena, degen, lucas, babel, reserve keepers and voronin will raise another 15-20 million
with a budget of 50 million i reckon we'll see
silva 20 million
barry 10 million
johnston 10 million
it'll leave us an aguero short of being complete imo and we'll have 4 first team english players in the squad - far more than enough for any quota system if we throw in some of the reserves.
with a budget of 50 million i reckon we'll see
silva 20 million
barry 10 million
johnston 10 million
it'll leave us an aguero short of being complete imo and we'll have 4 first team english players in the squad - far more than enough for any quota system if we throw in some of the reserves.
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870945#msg870945 date=1242802948]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870947#msg870947 date=1242803122]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870945#msg870945 date=1242802948]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[/quote]
Johnson's is an overrated defender. I'd rather we get Micah Richards than him. Younger, better player. He'd cost a lot more but if we want quality we might spend some money. Barry won't improve our team. If we can't get Eto'o, get Defoe.
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870945#msg870945 date=1242802948]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[/quote]
Johnson's is an overrated defender. I'd rather we get Micah Richards than him. Younger, better player. He'd cost a lot more but if we want quality we might spend some money. Barry won't improve our team. If we can't get Eto'o, get Defoe.
If we only have £25m to buy player in the summer ( excluding cash raised from player sales) then where is the money from the sale of Keane? If that's at least £15m then that means are transfer kitty being provided is around £10m, which is shite and buys you fuck all.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=33626.msg870910#msg870910 date=1242797213]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870888#msg870888 date=1242790825]
I really can't be arsed getting into the specifics of net spend Vs gross spend, cos it's boring as fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
[/quote]
I'm not going to get into the discussion on net vs gross either mate; its been done to death.
My point is illustrated by the examples you use. Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson (the juries out with Berbatov) are examples of Ferguson spending a lot on one player. None are regulars in the first team - many manc supporters think Nani and Hargreaves have been a waste. But, you guessed it, Ferguson has not gone out and spent another 40 to 50m on other players.
As you say Rafa has spent quite a bit but its him who has taken the decision to spend big money on a lot of players rather than big money on a few players. Yes he needed a squad but he needed quality to make the move IMO.
Either way I think, as you say, he needs to shut up on the excuses. He's done an excellent job this season in releasing the talent and focusing it. Not perfect but who is? He's now set the bench mark and if he can't exceed this level next season with 30 to 40m then he can trot out all the excuses he likes - I won't be buying them.
[/quote]
I think there were occasions when he could have bought one player for £12m-£20m rather than buy two or three average stop gops for £4m-£7m. It's hard to argue against that when said stop gaps are then moved on a year or two later. I posted a while ago about our first team squad from 06/07, of the 20(ish) players on there, only 9 remained two years later, and only two of the departees weren't Rafa signings.
It's ironic that we've achieved more balance, cohesion and consistency this season while working largely with the same squad and first team (pretty much) as last year. That's what many of us were asking for for quite some time, a consistent lineup with tweeks here and there both in terms of signings and team selections.
Last Summer we spent around £40m on Cavielleri, Keane, Riera and Dossena (and Degen), none of whom have been a significant success. That was an occasion when he could have spent more wisely.
We had a dream partnership of Gerrard and Torres, only he knows why he chose to break that up, it's not like he bought Keane as an either/or, he tried to incorporate him into the first team, which ultimately effected our overall game and that of Gerrard and Torres, something you could say is the fulcrum of our attack.
If he'd bought a player with similar attributes to Torres, like pace and power, for around £10m (for example), someone who could be used sparingly and occasionally in the wide roles if required, then that would have freed money for that genuine quality wide player we've waited over 5 years for.
It's simple, and many will argue that we're not really in a position to question someone of such standing in the game, but I've always maintained Rafa's major flaw is his inability to see the wood for the trees at times, it's like he over-analyzes. Yeah there were issues over the priority of Keane, but ultimately Rafa singled him out as someone he wanted to strengthen the side, and you have to look at the tactical reasoning behind that, when put simply we were crying out for a top brass wide player and we already had a World Class attacking front two in place.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870888#msg870888 date=1242790825]
I really can't be arsed getting into the specifics of net spend Vs gross spend, cos it's boring as fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
But, a simple look at their squad shows that they have spent big on quite a few occassions, and that does give them an advantage.
Berbatov - 30M
Rooney - 30M
Tevez - there's another 30M if he signs
Carrick - 18M
Hargreaves - 18M
Nani & Anderson - 35M
We've had two of those; Torres & Keane.
Whilst Rafa has spent a considerable amount since he took over, he's had to spread it around, knowing that he couldn't afford to buy endless amounts of 30M rated quality cos the squad he inherited was nowhere near good enough to compete at various levels over the course of the season. Oh, and don't give me the "he won a champions league with that squad" shite, cos he also went to Crystal Palace in the league and got rolled with a team comrising John Welsh, Darren Potter, and a host of other abject cunts. We finished 37 points behind the league winners that year.
So yes, he's had to build a squad. That costs money.
That said, I agree with your point on him 'offering it up as an excuse should he fail'. I really wish he'd pipe downon occassions.
[/quote]
I'm not going to get into the discussion on net vs gross either mate; its been done to death.
My point is illustrated by the examples you use. Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson (the juries out with Berbatov) are examples of Ferguson spending a lot on one player. None are regulars in the first team - many manc supporters think Nani and Hargreaves have been a waste. But, you guessed it, Ferguson has not gone out and spent another 40 to 50m on other players.
As you say Rafa has spent quite a bit but its him who has taken the decision to spend big money on a lot of players rather than big money on a few players. Yes he needed a squad but he needed quality to make the move IMO.
Either way I think, as you say, he needs to shut up on the excuses. He's done an excellent job this season in releasing the talent and focusing it. Not perfect but who is? He's now set the bench mark and if he can't exceed this level next season with 30 to 40m then he can trot out all the excuses he likes - I won't be buying them.
[/quote]
I think there were occasions when he could have bought one player for £12m-£20m rather than buy two or three average stop gops for £4m-£7m. It's hard to argue against that when said stop gaps are then moved on a year or two later. I posted a while ago about our first team squad from 06/07, of the 20(ish) players on there, only 9 remained two years later, and only two of the departees weren't Rafa signings.
It's ironic that we've achieved more balance, cohesion and consistency this season while working largely with the same squad and first team (pretty much) as last year. That's what many of us were asking for for quite some time, a consistent lineup with tweeks here and there both in terms of signings and team selections.
Last Summer we spent around £40m on Cavielleri, Keane, Riera and Dossena (and Degen), none of whom have been a significant success. That was an occasion when he could have spent more wisely.
We had a dream partnership of Gerrard and Torres, only he knows why he chose to break that up, it's not like he bought Keane as an either/or, he tried to incorporate him into the first team, which ultimately effected our overall game and that of Gerrard and Torres, something you could say is the fulcrum of our attack.
If he'd bought a player with similar attributes to Torres, like pace and power, for around £10m (for example), someone who could be used sparingly and occasionally in the wide roles if required, then that would have freed money for that genuine quality wide player we've waited over 5 years for.
It's simple, and many will argue that we're not really in a position to question someone of such standing in the game, but I've always maintained Rafa's major flaw is his inability to see the wood for the trees at times, it's like he over-analyzes. Yeah there were issues over the priority of Keane, but ultimately Rafa singled him out as someone he wanted to strengthen the side, and you have to look at the tactical reasoning behind that, when put simply we were crying out for a top brass wide player and we already had a World Class attacking front two in place.
[quote author=rage link=topic=33626.msg870946#msg870946 date=1242803033]
30 million plus sales is a lot of money - doseena, degen, lucas, babel, reserve keepers and voronin will raise another 15-20 million
with a budget of 50 million i reckon we'll see
silva 20 million
barry 10 million
johnston 10 million
it'll leave us an aguero short of being complete imo and we'll have 4 first team english players in the squad - far more than enough for any quota system if we throw in some of the reserves.
[/quote]
I´d be very happy with that...and to see Doseena, Degen, Lucas, Babel, 100 reserve keepers and Voronin leave.
30 million plus sales is a lot of money - doseena, degen, lucas, babel, reserve keepers and voronin will raise another 15-20 million
with a budget of 50 million i reckon we'll see
silva 20 million
barry 10 million
johnston 10 million
it'll leave us an aguero short of being complete imo and we'll have 4 first team english players in the squad - far more than enough for any quota system if we throw in some of the reserves.
[/quote]
I´d be very happy with that...and to see Doseena, Degen, Lucas, Babel, 100 reserve keepers and Voronin leave.
fino afinando
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870970#msg870970 date=1242805226]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870947#msg870947 date=1242803122]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870945#msg870945 date=1242802948]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[/quote]
Johnson's is an overrated defender. I'd rather we get Micah Richards than him. Younger, better player. He'd cost a lot more but if we want quality we might spend some money. Barry won't improve our team. If we can't get Eto'o, get Defoe.
[/quote]
Surprisingly (because many people on here don't rate him) I would also like Micah Richards. A change and a new challenge could return him to the form he showed two seasons ago (he can't have just lost it). Last year was awful, this year a little better. Pace & Power - just needs channeling.
Barry will improve us - no doubt at all. Cover at DM, LW, CM & LB. He will play in most games.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870947#msg870947 date=1242803122]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870945#msg870945 date=1242802948]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870941#msg870941 date=1242802770]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33626.msg870925#msg870925 date=1242801075]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33626.msg870914#msg870914 date=1242798942]
Add rubberlips-ferdinand to list aswell Ryan.
Anyway, back to the point. Rafa's right, we don't need a major overhaul and we not far off spot on. I think we only need 1 quality wide player, a striker, and a right back this summer. That's it - 3 players. And including player sales, we should have anything upwards of 50mill to do it with.
[/quote]
Spot on. Fine tuning - YES. Major overhaul - NO. Sell Babel, Degen, Dossena and sign 4 players. A good left and right back, a striker and a left winger to replace Babel. Riera will not make it. He's a decent player but we need better. Eto'o, Miguel, Vargas and Silva.
[/quote]
FOUR non-English players ? Never gonna happen, have you forgotten UEFA.
[/quote]
Yeah then...sign Johnson, Lennon, Defoe and Bridge. Fucking hell.
[/quote]
How about Johnson, Barry, Silva and a back up Striker. Makes a lot more sense than either of your picks. *conveniently forgets Glock is not a Barry fan*
[/quote]
Johnson's is an overrated defender. I'd rather we get Micah Richards than him. Younger, better player. He'd cost a lot more but if we want quality we might spend some money. Barry won't improve our team. If we can't get Eto'o, get Defoe.
[/quote]
Surprisingly (because many people on here don't rate him) I would also like Micah Richards. A change and a new challenge could return him to the form he showed two seasons ago (he can't have just lost it). Last year was awful, this year a little better. Pace & Power - just needs channeling.
Barry will improve us - no doubt at all. Cover at DM, LW, CM & LB. He will play in most games.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=33626.msg870884#msg870884 date=1242790025]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870872#msg870872 date=1242780717]
If he uses this excuse next season I'll abduct him and hang him by his ears myself.
Bloody hell. Maybe that's the way he operates, always preparing an escape route to save his ass in the event of failure but that pissed me off.
Rafa has made progress this season because the team has started playing to its potential. I'm not suggesting I was alone in saying it but I've said for a couple of seasons the team had far more attacking potency than it is being allowed to demonstrate. This season - with the exception of December / January - we started to show that potency and the result is we pushed the mancs all the way.
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
[/quote]
The fact that they can is probably the point.
But no, you are right, we haven't won it for 19 years due to the fat spanish waiter.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33626.msg870872#msg870872 date=1242780717]
[/quote]
If he uses this excuse next season I'll abduct him and hang him by his ears myself.
Bloody hell. Maybe that's the way he operates, always preparing an escape route to save his ass in the event of failure but that pissed me off.
Rafa has made progress this season because the team has started playing to its potential. I'm not suggesting I was alone in saying it but I've said for a couple of seasons the team had far more attacking potency than it is being allowed to demonstrate. This season - with the exception of December / January - we started to show that potency and the result is we pushed the mancs all the way.
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
[/quote]
The fact that they can is probably the point.
But no, you are right, we haven't won it for 19 years due to the fat spanish waiter.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=33626.msg870884#msg870884 date=1242790025]
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
[/quote]
That's an irrelevant point - when Rafa first arrived Ferguson had a much better squad to start with and thus, if anything, it needed less investment.
Ferguson has not outspend us in gross or net terms since Rafa arrived so for him to start pulling this up now really grates. They haven't been spending "40m or 50m on other players" for a long time and trying to prolong that myth is a joke. He's formed a very good team which could really take them on next season and this kind of muck just detracts from what he's done so far.
Friendly note to Rafa: "Suck it in princess."
[/quote]
That's an irrelevant point - when Rafa first arrived Ferguson had a much better squad to start with and thus, if anything, it needed less investment.
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg870988#msg870988 date=1242807077]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg871038#msg871038 date=1242809006]
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg870988#msg870988 date=1242807077]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[/quote]
http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=120864&highlight=liverpool%20modern&page=5
Take a look at the figures in this post. He's hardly been skint to the point that he can use lack of funds as an excuse.
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg870988#msg870988 date=1242807077]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[/quote]
http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=120864&highlight=liverpool%20modern&page=5
Take a look at the figures in this post. He's hardly been skint to the point that he can use lack of funds as an excuse.
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg871052#msg871052 date=1242809587]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg871038#msg871038 date=1242809006]
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg870988#msg870988 date=1242807077]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[/quote]
Take a look at the figures in this post. He's hardly been skint to the point that he can use lack of funds as an excuse.
[/quote]
Look at the value of the squads - tells you all you need to know. It's not that he's been skint but he's had to do an awful lot more with what he's had than United who already had far more than the spine of their team.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg871038#msg871038 date=1242809006]
[quote author=foureyes link=topic=33626.msg870988#msg870988 date=1242807077]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=33626.msg870920#msg870920 date=1242800688]
I've just posted this on another forum in reply to some Manc twat but yes, agree with Wizard's & Ryan's sentiments.
Liverpool - To challenge United, Arsenal and Chelsea Rafa had to build the team incrementaly, so yes, buy 5 players and 2 years later sell 3 of them and buy 2 better ones etc. To get to the stage we are at now ... sell one buy a better one.
Everyone makes mistakes in the transfer market, United are not immune - Veron at 30M ???
Tompkins article I had forgotten but yes, valid points :
Current Value of their squads (fees paid not player valuations)
Chelsea £207m
Manchester United £206m*
Spurs £188m
Manchester City £140m
Liverpool £127m
(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99% of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)
If you want to see the spending power each team has then just examine the players in the squad that *cost* over e.g. 15M (I'm using this number because if I chose 20M then Liverpool don't have any players since Torres was 18M + add ons !) :
Man United : Hargreaves (17M), Ferdinand (30M), Nani (15M+), Anderson (15M+), Rooney (28M), Berbatov (31M), Tevez (see above), Carrick (18.6M)
Liverpool : Masherano (18M), Torres (20M) .... the next most expensive player was Babel at 11M.
Is it clicking yet ?
[/quote]
Rafa has had plenty to spend. Net or gross, whichever way you look at it, he's spent about the same as Fergie. Froggy, all those figures show is that Fergie has bought more expensive players but less of them, whilst Rafa has done the opposite.
This whole money issue has been done to death. Rafa has been backed to the point that he really should not be using money as an excuse.
[/quote]
You're wrong mate. All those quotes on Rafa's spends concentrate on comparisons with his time at Liverpool ... and not what United had already spent before he arrived. It seems that is all water under the bridge and not worthy of consideration. Which is absurd. You can't look at those figures and tell me we have spent the same - because we clearly haven't even if Rafa had bought 50 other players !
[/quote]
Take a look at the figures in this post. He's hardly been skint to the point that he can use lack of funds as an excuse.
[/quote]
Look at the value of the squads - tells you all you need to know. It's not that he's been skint but he's had to do an awful lot more with what he's had than United who already had far more than the spine of their team.
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