Selliott
- Thread starter SummerOnions
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
I get that, but Wirtz plays his only real role I reckon.
Lovely lad. Has talent. Just not quite enough for what the manager wants so it’s a wasted asset if we keep him.
Because of his lack of pace, dribbling and tackling ability, for me there are really only two positions he can play ; RM and 10. The lad gives his all but he doesn't truly excel anywhere. I believe he's best at #10 but he's never getting that chance here with many ahead of him.
Slot has already shown he doesn't rate him and he's already said he wants game time. He's off I'm afraid.
Given what froggy just wrote here ☝️,
why even bother stating that you'd keep him?
For what? As a mascot?
Are the lads going to rub his head for good luck before every game?
Keep Harvey in the squad in a Spearing role, so he just trains with the team?
The manager CLEARLY doesn't rate him and doesn't play him, even bought a like for like replacement, making him like 5th choice.
So the logical thing is to keep him?
Wtf?!
If Elliott had even the slightest chance of flourishing under Slot we wouldn't have just signed Wirtz for £116m.
It was all set up for him with Slot playing a 10. Unfortunately Slot also preferred Szoboszlai and Jones there, so I'm not really sure what point there is keeping him around.
It’s the “on the bench” that’s the problem.
This is our conundrum with good young players - there aren’t many 21/22 year olds good enough to hold down a regular starting position in a top tier club, but a player in that age bracket only gets better by playing games.
So do you compromise the team to play someone not there yet in terms of ability?
A loan doesn’t necessarily work because there’s no “reward” for a decent team to develop that player if they’re not going to be able to cash in.
Elliot, Wirtz & Cherki are all a similar age… Elliot’s the oldest, but arguably achieved the least in terms of results on the pitch - not as in being part of a winning team - the other two are regular starters and full internationals - Elliot has played about 50 league games less (granted that leg injury played a part and effectively Slot not playing him last season is likely the difference).
Still - the point is he needs to be starting 30 league games a season and developing his game - that’s not happening at Liverpool and sitting on the bench helps no-one.
Elliot's only problems as a player are things he cannot control - physical attributes (speed, physicality etc).
Everything else he has imo.
It's clear Slot doesn't rate him ahead of various others players.
I wish he would have succeeded because he's a fan but it seems that's now how this story will be written (unless he stays another year and proves the detractors within the club wrong).
In the right set up, he can be an excellent player.
Everything else he has imo.
It's clear Slot doesn't rate him ahead of various others players.
I wish he would have succeeded because he's a fan but it seems that's now how this story will be written (unless he stays another year and proves the detractors within the club wrong).
In the right set up, he can be an excellent player.
Harvey is great but he's not going to get the playing time to kick on and we have other options available. We can only afford to do things like let Trent go on a free to help us win a title (and perhaps do the same thing with Konate this year) if we cash in on saleable assets like Harv while their value is still high.
I'd love for him to succeed here but for his own sake, as well as ours, his future likely lies elsewhere. And I will wish him every bit of success (pending his transfer destination.)
I'd love for him to succeed here but for his own sake, as well as ours, his future likely lies elsewhere. And I will wish him every bit of success (pending his transfer destination.)
I think the fact that we seemingly haven’t got even a small number of top clubs enquiring after him - instead he’s linked with West Ham - is a clue to how much of a barrier his physical deficits (chronic lack of pace / lack of strength / hobbit size) are to fitting him into a top side in either midfield or as a winger.
He’s had some really good moments but equally has been dominated physically at times too.
He’s had some really good moments but equally has been dominated physically at times too.
I dont think the manager will only want 11 players.
Agree with whoever said if he wants to go we should sell him but if he doesnt we should keep. We will play 72 games next season to win all 4 competitions.
A player like Elliott is vital to be able to rotate. Im also very concerned about CB for this same reason. The Guehi rumours seem to have died.
Konate and Gomez cant stay fit and arent even very good when they are fit so we have one dependable CB for a 72 game season.
Players like Elliott, Jones, Robbo, Endo etc are vital to keep imo
Agree with whoever said if he wants to go we should sell him but if he doesnt we should keep. We will play 72 games next season to win all 4 competitions.
A player like Elliott is vital to be able to rotate. Im also very concerned about CB for this same reason. The Guehi rumours seem to have died.
Konate and Gomez cant stay fit and arent even very good when they are fit so we have one dependable CB for a 72 game season.
Players like Elliott, Jones, Robbo, Endo etc are vital to keep imo
Elliott scored 1 goal when we needed it, and coming off the bench, against PSG.
Other than that he scored in games that didn’t matter to much against Brighton in the 3-2 loss and Lille/PSV in the CL, Soton in the league cup. 3 of which he started.
5 goals in total.
Not really much of a big problem for Slot nor contribution from Elliott.
Personally I think we would regret selling Elliott.
Obviously he had a bad season, and is understandable if he wants more games, but situations change and systems change.
At the start of last season it was clear that the manager didn't rate Endo either. That changed. I suspect he didn't massively rate Jones either. That changed too.
Also worth remembering that Elliott had injuries last year too. If that hadn't been the case he may also have forced his way in.
Obviously he had a bad season, and is understandable if he wants more games, but situations change and systems change.
At the start of last season it was clear that the manager didn't rate Endo either. That changed. I suspect he didn't massively rate Jones either. That changed too.
Also worth remembering that Elliott had injuries last year too. If that hadn't been the case he may also have forced his way in.
Its the right time to sell him imho, but with a buy back clause.
He won’t be able to force his way into the team and his physical attributes just aren’t good enough for a top side. If he develops into a top player we can potentially buy him back, but I think that is unlikely.
Forest and West Ham are interested and that’s his level at the moment.
Get the 45-50 mill and reinvest in the squad.
Elliott is a great character and a massive red, but that’s not enough to stay in the squad.
He won’t be able to force his way into the team and his physical attributes just aren’t good enough for a top side. If he develops into a top player we can potentially buy him back, but I think that is unlikely.
Forest and West Ham are interested and that’s his level at the moment.
Get the 45-50 mill and reinvest in the squad.
Elliott is a great character and a massive red, but that’s not enough to stay in the squad.
Yeah, he didn't come off the bench much because Slot mustn't rate him - but when he did he was ace. He came off the bench a bit more the season before and I seem to recall him being ace then too. He's just won player of the tournament in the international under 21s, and he scored loads of goals. I mean he's literally the best at that level and if some random foreign kid had just done what he's just done we'd be thinking about a fifty million quid bid.
But... As said above, if he wants to leave then he'll go. Most players that leave I think they might struggle somewhere else. I don't think that about him. He's dead good at footy and I think it's a shame that there isn't space for him.
I think Elliot has to go for his career, and because we need the money. He just doesn't fit our system.
CB is very very important.
CB is very very important.
100% agree. But I think he'll go. For the sake of his own career and the fact that we need to recoup some money now. We have multiple options in his position that Slot obvs prefers.
I'd totally get it if he was 28 but he's just turned 22. Like I say, a massive shame if someone best in class at that age needs to move, and it reflects badly on the club. What 16 year old is gonna want to move here? He couldn't have done much better with his time here and he's better than 99% of players, but that's apparently not good enough. City used the same logic to sell Palmer and not one of their fans is happy about it now.
It's worth taking a quick look at how many mins he's played, in total. 3,676 mins. Some players manage that in one season.
Even under Klopp he has 1,335 and 1611 mins and in 94 'games' has scored 5 goals and had 13 assists. In 2023/4 he only played the full 90 mins 4 times (PL). Last season he only played the full 90 mins once and only had 4 games over 22 mins. He only missed 8 games with his broken foot.
He's not suddenly going to become a starter for us. So that leaves him competing with the likes of Jones, Szobo and Nyoni for minutes.
I thought this last year, but then you could argue also that Szobo doesn't fit our system either. He was very good at pressing but inconsistent at other stuff, and there was a strong argument at points to say Elliott should get a run of games in his place. That number 10 role in the 4231 would have been very difficult last season - Slot likes his wide players really wide, and we didn't really have dynamic full backs to create space either unless the Tayto Terrier was playing. I was interested to see that Szoboszlai was used as a RB in the game against Stoke to essentially join the attack as a double 10 with Wirtz; I think Harvey could easily do this role and do it well. If he wanted to stay I'd keep him and back him to get more games this season than he did last. But that might not be enough for him anymore.
I don't see him getting more games this season, because wirtz and now even frimpong when Salah is out, may now be ahead of him. Szobo was already ahead of him and is far far more physical. The things they offer he can't compete with. He's definitely very good, just a casualty of a managerial change.
It definitely is a worry that slot isn't developing younger talent so far, was definitely one of the biggest joys under klopp, sending some random 17 year old out with a good pep talk and watching them really believe they are a world beater.
I've made this point many times in the past, about how we don't sign players with high potential but wait for them to develop at lesser teams and then end up paying a premium for the finished article. People are always frustrated that we pay top money for those guys but the counter-argument is that they wouldn't get that development time with us, and wouldn't become the players they are capable of being.
That's where Harvey is. He's the proof of that argument, the guy with massive potential and ability, who isn't afforded the game time to develop. The rare exception of a player who we've actually signed and kept around the edges of our first XI. But to get that time in our team, you have to be exceptional (e.g. Trent - don't be blind-sided by the last few years, he was off the scale as a kid), and Harvey's not exceptional. He's very good, and he could perhaps become exceptional, but right now he's not there.
I'll be gutted to see him go and will wish him all the best, but it's more in his best interests than ours that he moves on and grabs the opportunity to become the player he can be. If he stays here too much longer he might never reach his potential. Some mid-table team is going to get a cracking player, and I hope he'll do well with them, but I hate to see a fan having to move on.
That's where Harvey is. He's the proof of that argument, the guy with massive potential and ability, who isn't afforded the game time to develop. The rare exception of a player who we've actually signed and kept around the edges of our first XI. But to get that time in our team, you have to be exceptional (e.g. Trent - don't be blind-sided by the last few years, he was off the scale as a kid), and Harvey's not exceptional. He's very good, and he could perhaps become exceptional, but right now he's not there.
I'll be gutted to see him go and will wish him all the best, but it's more in his best interests than ours that he moves on and grabs the opportunity to become the player he can be. If he stays here too much longer he might never reach his potential. Some mid-table team is going to get a cracking player, and I hope he'll do well with them, but I hate to see a fan having to move on.
