I think he was getting enough time, and would have got more, under Klopp.
The more alarming example for slot is Quansah, but he's not an attacking player so no one gives a shit.
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I think he was getting enough time, and would have got more, under Klopp.
The more alarming example for slot is Quansah, but he's not an attacking player so no one gives a shit.
I can't remember Harvey ever really going past someone with skill or pace, so that rules him out as a wide forward for me.
In MF he has a fantastic passing range, eye for a pass and keeps the ball moving intelligently but he also gets bullied and isn't a strong tackler / presser. That was what he was like when he broke into the team 3-4yrs ago. How has he improved since then?
Imo he reached his ceiling very young. Probably better suited to a less physical league as the PL is brutal but not sure he'll go anywhere if we put an unrealistic valuation on him.
In MF he has a fantastic passing range, eye for a pass and keeps the ball moving intelligently but he also gets bullied and isn't a strong tackler / presser. That was what he was like when he broke into the team 3-4yrs ago. How has he improved since then?
Imo he reached his ceiling very young. Probably better suited to a less physical league as the PL is brutal but not sure he'll go anywhere if we put an unrealistic valuation on him.
I'm not as used to looking at minutes played data as you are, but my assumption is that Elliott has played significantly fewer minutes than, say, Szoboszlai.
In the last two years, Elliott has had 9 goals and 14 assists. Szoboszlai has had 15 goals snd 12 assists.
If we are looking at stats and looking at minutes played then surely it's only right to also consider that and see that Elliott does clearly have something to offer and would possibly do better if he had more playing time.
I'm not saying he would suddenly become first choice, but as I said before, things do happen. Players do get injured, players have poor runs of form, players on the fringes do improve and develop.
Ultimately I get that if the manager doesn't rate him then we may as well cash in, and I get that he will probably, albeit reluctantly, want to move on to get games, but personally I think it's a bit of a shame.
I think he's been hard done to, but I can't argue too hard when Slot won us the league last year. I think he should have at least had more time off the bench, but he'd developed that Babel habit of being great off the bench and then bang average when he started the next game.
He needs to go somewhere where he will start week in, week out. He deserves that, but it's not going to happen here.
I agree Quansah was more hard done to than Elliot. He had one half when he was "OK" but not great and was then basically bombed out for the season and publicly reprimanded to boot. It was the first game of the season, far too early to judge, and we put all our eggs in the basket of a guy who, seemingly, wants to shaft us by joining Madrid on a free next summer.
Elliot is undisciplined positionally. You see it for england u-21 as well, but he's afforded that luxury because he's the best player. For Liverpool he's playing near Salah, and for Salah. That's why he's better off the bench when we are pushing, because he doesn't have to defend anywhere near as much, we are pushed high and being aggressive.
Szobo is worse technically but an unrelentingly athletic bastard of a runner. His defensive stats are miles and miles ahead of Elliots, and we need that because that's the glaring flaw with playing Salah.
That's modern football for you. Even in lesser teams there's a lot less time for a player like Elliot. I wish it weren't so but that's the reality at the moment.
But slot wanted someone better than szobo in that position, he just didn't want the downsides, and paid over a hundred million to get it.
As said before Elliott’s issue is the physical side to the game and his lack of presence so to speak. We look a much worse team in total when he’s starting and the midfield isn’t set up to cover his flaws.
He isn’t good enough or suited to be a winger for us given his lack of pace, and if he plays as a 10 you don’t get the pressing and running that Szobo and Wirtz offer.
Let’s not forget that the defensive contributions are a massive factor in our success and his defensive numbers are insanely bad.
Imho he hasn’t taken his chance when given various starts and given his lack of suitability to the team, he’ll get sold.
Cracking lad and very technical but that’s not enough. Makes no sense to have 45-50 mill sitting on the bench and he’s a young lad that deserves to further his career.
He hasn’t deserved to get more starts than he did either.
Regarding Quansah. He clearly regressed this season and lost his way mentally. Difficult to argue against Slots decisions and especially in the first league game, as we won.
Given that Konate stayed fit for the most part his minutes were lacking.
The rest of the season was riddled with mistakes and there might maybe be some off the field issues for all that we know.
Didn’t think he’d be sold but it’s a good fee, decent buy back and clearly Slot feels he needs another type of CB.
He isn’t good enough or suited to be a winger for us given his lack of pace, and if he plays as a 10 you don’t get the pressing and running that Szobo and Wirtz offer.
Let’s not forget that the defensive contributions are a massive factor in our success and his defensive numbers are insanely bad.
Imho he hasn’t taken his chance when given various starts and given his lack of suitability to the team, he’ll get sold.
Cracking lad and very technical but that’s not enough. Makes no sense to have 45-50 mill sitting on the bench and he’s a young lad that deserves to further his career.
He hasn’t deserved to get more starts than he did either.
Regarding Quansah. He clearly regressed this season and lost his way mentally. Difficult to argue against Slots decisions and especially in the first league game, as we won.
Given that Konate stayed fit for the most part his minutes were lacking.
The rest of the season was riddled with mistakes and there might maybe be some off the field issues for all that we know.
Didn’t think he’d be sold but it’s a good fee, decent buy back and clearly Slot feels he needs another type of CB.
If we were still at the stage of challenging for top 4 places every season, I think Elliott would've been afforded more time. However, our title winning seasons apart, challenging City for the title in the past few years has been difficult enough even with full-fledged talented senior players. As Beamrider has said -- unless the young man is exceptional like Trent and Sterling, it's going to be hard for us to simultaneously mount a serious challenge for the title or CL while still giving the young men sufficient meaningful minutes.
For Elliott, see Solanke and Harry Wilson -- young talented lads who went on and established themselves and play heavy minutes for the next level of clubs in the league. Jury is still out on Carvalho. These lads did not -- and Elliott is unlikely to -- make us regret selling too early. Even if we did, it'd be for squad depth reasons rather than wistfully thinking we could've held on to a star.
For the record, I like Elliott, prefer him to stay for squad depth, and might be in the minority here in preferring him to Curtis Jones. I also don't think us cutting him early is going to scare off potential talents in the future from joining us. The exceptional ones know that the track record of the club shows that we do tell gold from silver, and the exceptional ones always think they're gold. 🙂
For Elliott, see Solanke and Harry Wilson -- young talented lads who went on and established themselves and play heavy minutes for the next level of clubs in the league. Jury is still out on Carvalho. These lads did not -- and Elliott is unlikely to -- make us regret selling too early. Even if we did, it'd be for squad depth reasons rather than wistfully thinking we could've held on to a star.
For the record, I like Elliott, prefer him to stay for squad depth, and might be in the minority here in preferring him to Curtis Jones. I also don't think us cutting him early is going to scare off potential talents in the future from joining us. The exceptional ones know that the track record of the club shows that we do tell gold from silver, and the exceptional ones always think they're gold. 🙂
Hmm I deliberately left out cups such as the EFL, FAC and CL group stages and concentrated only on the PL. In that regard Szobo scored 6 goals last season - more than Elliot has scored in all his time at LFC ... and in 1,000 less minutes.
However as I mentioned above he's not (IMO) going to get more minutes when we haven't sold any midfielders and have indeed added one of the best in the world. For #10 he's 3rd or 4th, for RW he's 3rd at best and if we get Rodygo then he'll never see RW, so that leaves only RM and again he's 3rd or 4th in line and it's not his best position. Where are his opportunities? EFL and FAC barring an injury crisis.
He's a lovely lad and a Red so that blurs perspective. However in the real world he can't tackle, isn't a great dribbler and lacks pace and stamina, he also isn't the world's best presser (gets dribbled passed / bypassed too easily). He's not an elite player and I doubt he ever will be due to that lack of pace, dribbling and stamina.
Creatively and technically he adds a lot and chips in with 'enough' goals and assists - but it's nowhere near good enough for a LFC starting slot and I don't think it's enough for a place in this squad either.
If Wirtz doesn't play then I suspect Szobo is in at 10 with Grav and Mac behind, or Mac further forward. Elliotts come and lived the dream for a few years but it's time to put his career first and establish himself in the PL. That looked unlikely to happen last year and now it's near impossible. He's plenty good enough to go the likes of Fulham/West Ham/Brentford and do well for himself.
The same principle is true of Chiesa and probably Tsimikas really. Jones is a wait and see stage, but I think he has enough to compete across a few positions and rotate when we need to without a big drop off.
The same principle is true of Chiesa and probably Tsimikas really. Jones is a wait and see stage, but I think he has enough to compete across a few positions and rotate when we need to without a big drop off.
No surprise its the same old suspects calling everyone mad for wanting to keep him. Same old, and it has nothing to do with Wirtz, we could have just signed Aquilani and you bellends would be saying the same, one's English and one comes from the continent. I hope the lad succeeds whatever he decides and makes a few people look like anti-Anglo agenda riddled cunts.
fwiw, I love Harvey but still think it's best for all if he's sold. And I also am very curious how Szoboslazi will be used with Wirtz on board and whether Szobo has a long term future here. Impact to Curtis as well.
The prevalent opinion seems to be a pretty mild "unfortunately it doesn't seem to make sense for either party for him to stay."
I'm not seeing much of an agenda.
There is if you look between the lines, read it how you want.
Elliott won 0.17 aerial duels per 90 mins placing him in the 8th percentile.
Szobo won 0.63 aerial duels per 90 placing him in the 65th percentile.
Elliott’s defensive game is insanely bad.
That’s just a fact sadly. Technically he is one of the better players we have.
For the record I only think Elliott should be sold because he’s English, nothing else.
I want a team of Scandos only.
Shut up Modo.
Hey! No Swedes! Just Norwegians and Danish players.
Szobo can play as an 8 as well. His long passing is a trait we’ll be able to use now that Trent is gone. Like Brighton away.
He’ll play more than enough minutes.
Is it okay to support a player if he’s Hungarian and not English? Asking for a friend.
Doesn't match the stats i saw from fbref
Nor does it match the eye test.
Either way, ones not good enough but was a pittance and ones not good enough and cost 70m
These stats are from Fbref:
Dominik Szoboszlai Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com
Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Hungary men's national team, Liverpool FC and RB Leipzig playing for Dominik Szoboszlai in the Champions League, Austrian Bundesliga and Bundesliga
fbref.com
Harvey Elliott Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com
Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Liverpool FC, Fulham FC and Liverpool FC U23 playing for Harvey Elliott in the Premier League, Champions League and FIFA Club World Cup
fbref.com
Elliott winning in the air is certainly not an eye test I’ve seen.
Nor is it an eye test I've seen from szob. I've seen szob do his best kuyt impression, just without the tackles goals and assists.These stats are from Fbref:
Dominik Szoboszlai Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com
Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Hungary men's national team, Liverpool FC and RB Leipzig playing for Dominik Szoboszlai in the Champions League, Austrian Bundesliga and Bundesliga
Harvey Elliott Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com
Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Liverpool FC, Fulham FC and Liverpool FC U23 playing for Harvey Elliott in the Premier League, Champions League and FIFA Club World Cup
Elliott winning in the air is certainly not an eye test I’ve seen.
Ultimately Elliott might not be good enough for how slot wants us to play, hence us selling him. I'm not having szob bigged up though when the very first signing of this summer was designed to oust him from the first 11
He’s not best in class. The very best players in the world at that age don’t play u21 football, they play senior football. It’s like saying he’s the best of the championship.
Still a great little player but if the likes of Yamal etc played that tournament it would be Harvey who?
Are Finns Scandos?
It’s like saying Irish people are British.
Chelsea let De Bruyne go, and Salah, and Guehi for that matter. It rarely makes sense to offload young players who are CLEARLY dead good at footie. This isnt Jordan Ibe or Thomas Ince, as you say if he came through Dortmund or Sporting academy at this age we would be made up if we signed him.
Except if he had he’d be a central first team starter for those teams. He’s not for us and there is limited chances he will be here at least under Slot. I love Harvey and hope he can settle for a bit part role but totally understand the rationale of selling him or him wanting to go.
Do not really disagree, although what fees did Chelsea get for those three. As much as I like Harvey, £40-50M is pretty tempting. At his best, I do think he the potential of David Silva, who also was not fast or physical or beat lots of players on the dribble. I just doubt he has a place in the team right now and best for him if he goes for his career and for us for the money he could generate for other priorities.
