Set Them Up

[robinhood]

The way I see it:

Reina - GK obviously

Johnson - RB obviously

Carragher - CB - obviously

Agger and Skrtel - play Skrtel CB and Agger LB - Agger is left footed, a better defender than Aurelio and Insua, and he's actually better going forward too.

Mascherano is a DM. Let him play deep.

Gerrard is a box to box midfielder. Allow him to play there. Ultimately it's the best for Gerrard to play him in his chosen position and dropping him back a bit will help us defensively.

Aquilani is an attacking midfielder. Let him play an AM role, either central, or if there's no room, let him play sort of on the left. I'm think he's played there before, and there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to.

Benyoun is better than Kuyt. Play Yossi on the right.

Torres is obviously Liverpool's No.9

Depending on the formation, either play Kuyt or Riera (until we can do better) in the remaining space (Riera if on the left, Kuyt if up top).

 

[robinhood]

Semi-realistically, though, I'd probably go for something like this:

---------------Torres Kuyt
Aquilani Gerrard Mascherano Benyoun
--Aurelio Agger Carragher Johnson
------------------Reina

 

[ibromurph]

Short term, i'd go 4-4-2.. long term 4-3-3

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio*

Mascher

Gerrard
Aquilani

Kuyt*
Babel*
Torres


Kuyt and Babel are used to playing the system with the Dutch. I think the system gets the best out of our midfield 3 too.

* - ideally will be replaced whenever funds became available.

At least in this system there's a clear vision of what we want, not overcomplicated by tactics. Also, our transfer vision would be a lot more clearer. Instead of buying players who can do "a bit of this and that" (scattergun-style), we'd get players who suit the system (i'd hope).

 

[robinhood]

Surely Yossi deserves to play?

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=38091.msg1020198#msg1020198 date=1261582571]
Surely Yossi deserves to play?
[/quote]

I know, he does, but he doesn't really suit a 4-3-3 system. Neither should Kuyt really (slow and shite touch) but as he's played there for the Dutch and looked semi-decent, so as much as I prefer footballers to workers, I'd initially give him the nod and say "Dirk, you're shite.. prove me wrong". If he doesn't then Yossi would be straight in there. Only, unlike Rafa, I wouldn't drop him if he played well.

 

[Squiggles]

-------------------------Reina------------------
---Johnson--Carragher---Agger-------Aurelio
---Yossi------Gerrard------Mascherano--Riera--
---------------Kuyt--------Torres-------------------

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38091.msg1020200#msg1020200 date=1261583212]
-------------------------Reina------------------
---Johnson--Carragher---Agger-------Aurelio
---Yossi------Gerrard------Mascherano--Riera--
---------------Kuyt--------Torres-------------------
[/quote]

I think that's a good starting point. Kuyt and Yossi would be interchangeable in that formation and either one could be removed to make way for Aquilani as and when he's ready. Plus it has pretty much all of our best players playing in familiar positions.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38091.msg1020202#msg1020202 date=1261583805]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38091.msg1020200#msg1020200 date=1261583212]
-------------------------Reina------------------
---Johnson--Carragher---Agger-------Aurelio
---Yossi------Gerrard------Mascherano--Riera--
---------------Kuyt--------Torres-------------------
[/quote]

I think that's a good starting point. Kuyt and Yossi would be interchangeable in that formation and either one could be removed to make way for Aquilani as and when he's ready. Plus it has pretty much all of our best players playing in familiar positions.
[/quote]

Alas the concept Rafa doesn't seem to grasp

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38091.msg1020303#msg1020303 date=1261607207]
Alas the concept Rafa doesn't seem to grasp
[/quote]

Who does he play out of position on a regular basis these days?

Ideally, I'd go for a 4-3-3. I don't think it really matters who is out wide as none of them are particularly brilliant, however as long as we can go back to controlling games from the middle, we'll be okay.

The other option is a 4-4-2 with Gerrard in midfield. He's not been quite right since he came back from injury and and his work rate hasn't been fantastic either - is that just my [mistaken] impression or has anyone else thought that as well? - so I'm not expecting miracles but it's certainly worth a shot. Johnson wide right, Riera on the left and Kuyt / Yossi partnering Torres.

 

[MaBigTip]

Carra (occasionally), Dossena, Babel(but then again Rafa is convinced he is a LAM), Aurelio, Kuyt, Benayoun and Gerrard (it has been quite clear that we needed to play him in midfield this year.)

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Reina

Johnson
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Yossi
Gerrard
Mascherano
Riera

Aquilani

Torres


I'd even contemplate playing Degen at right back (if he is fit) with Johnson at right wing.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38091.msg1020314#msg1020314 date=1261608260]
Carra (occasionally), Dossena, Babel(but then again Rafa is convinced he is a LAM), Aurelio, Kuyt, Benayoun and Gerrard (it has been quite clear that we needed to play him in midfield this year.
[/quote]

Dossena, like Aurelio, can play further up the pitch on the left wing and we've only really seen this because Riera has been out.

Babel has played most of his career as a LF, so playing him wide left can hardly be construed as some absurd tactical decision.

Kuyt is now as much a right sided player as he is a striker. He plays wide right for the Dutch as well, which only serves to demonstrate this.

Gerrard has excelled for over a season in the AM role. How can this be considered unfamiliar to him?

Carra has filled in at RB when required - he's obviously not been played there out of choice. And again, the fullback position is hardly alien to him.

Rafa can most certainly be blamed for the lack of options and quality in the squad right now. He can also be blamed for failing to change the system when it's clear that it's not working. Playing players out of position? Not really high up on the list at all.

 

[MaBigTip]

All the slight out of positions is what has caused a lot of problems. Kuyt isnt a wide right midfielder, and its not that for the dutch system; its clearly a rwf and that is a difference. I would put the same on Babel as he has always been a lwf which we don't let either of our dutch wfs play. And we see how much better he plays on the right imo.

Aurelio and Dossena can play further forward but they are definately lacking in a position not there own.

Carra does it under necessity so no real complaints but it is an example.
And Gerrard hasn't excelled there this year and imo Gerrard should play in the position we need him to each year because our squad is weak. Who is the one player on our team with a better passing range than Alonso= Gerrard.

Rafa has actually gotten us so used to players out of position its not even highlighted as a problem anymore. But there is truly a lack of positional awareness in our team. From our fullbacks to Mascher who plays more as a central midfielder not a defensive midfielder.

But its not one of Rafa's biggest problems I'll agree

Edit: In agreement with Yossi at LM is probably the biggest problem for me right now. Its outstandingly poor and takes away one of our best threats when he is played centrally or on the right.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38091.msg1020325#msg1020325 date=1261608709]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38091.msg1020314#msg1020314 date=1261608260]
Carra (occasionally), Dossena, Babel(but then again Rafa is convinced he is a LAM), Aurelio, Kuyt, Benayoun and Gerrard (it has been quite clear that we needed to play him in midfield this year.
[/quote]

Dossena, like Aurelio, can play further up the pitch on the left wing and we've only really seen this because Riera has been out.

Babel has played most of his career as a LF, so playing him wide left can hardly be construed as some absurd tactical decision.

Kuyt is now as much a right sided player as he is a striker. He plays wide right for the Dutch as well, which only serves to demonstrate this.

Gerrard has excelled for over a season in the AM role. How can this be considered unfamiliar to him?

Carra has filled in at RB when required - he's obviously not been played there out of choice. And again, the fullback position is hardly alien to him.

Rafa can most certainly be blamed for the lack of options and quality in the squad right now. He can also be blamed for failing to change the system when it's clear that it's not working. Playing players out of position? Not really high up on the list at all.
[/quote]I don't agree.
Carragher is a cb who he will play at full back. Aurelio and Dossena are full backs who he plays as wingers and centre midfielders. Yossi is a ss or at a pinch right midfielder who plays at lm. Kuyt is a striker who he has turned into a winger. Babel is a cf who plays at left midfield. Lucas is supposedly a b to b midfielder who he plays at dm.
He's played alonso in dm with mascherano in front of him, finnan at rm, le tallec at rm, crouch at lm, voronin at rm etc etc.
It's not something I'm against in general and he has made some silk purses from sows ears most notably gerrard at ss, and Kuyt at rm. But he loves to use players in different places and it just CANNOT be said that he plays players (with any consistency) in their right (or best) position.
As I said not that it's always a bad thing but it is a drag when he can't see when it doesn't work ie-yossi at lm.

 

[Rosco]

--------Reina ---

Kelly ----- Carragher ---- Agger ---- Aurelio



Johnson ---- Gerrard --- Mascherano -----Riera

--------------------Yossi


-------------------Torres

 

[Oncy]

Oh and
reina
insua
agger
carragher
johnson

mascherano
aquilani
gerrard

babel
torres
riera.

Riera at lm, babel at lm.
Mascerano holding with Aquilani and Gerrard in front of him.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38091.msg1020345#msg1020345 date=1261610442]

Riera at lm, babel at lm.

[/quote]

Innovative.

 

[MaBigTip]

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Kelly

Aqua Masch

Babel Yossi Gerrard

Torres

Tell Gerrard and Babel we are preparing them for the World Cup and they'll be flying in no time

 

[gene hughes]

That team would get regularly beaten.

 

[keniget]

Crouch in that left forward / inside-left role was one of the weirdest decisions I've ever seen in football, but I really wouldn't really use that or Le Tallec at RW to make any sort of point - there are enough examples to use without having to resort to a couple of one off game scenarios.

Anyways, it's been well documented in the past that "tinkerman Rafa" has liked to move his pawns about in a manner we don't all fully understand or can't appreciate (to put it kindly), however I just don't see the point of bringing it up now. We're playing all of our players in the positions that have been very well established for them within this current side and we've only really deviated from that due to necessity.

I don't recall anyone using this argument much last season when we were playing all these players in the same positions they're occupying now, so I find it unacceptable to see it pop up now.

The real issue (this year) is that we lack quality and depth. If you were to question, for example, why we have only one natural winger in the squad leaving us fucked for options in his absence, I would find that wholly appropriate. But that's another issue.

 

[MaBigTip]

not if you gave me time in the preseason to teach them the style of play that goes with it.

 

[LarryHagman]

Things are that bad, Babel's creeping back into people's first 11.

Christ.

 

[MaBigTip]

Na, he's just there to drop Kuyt for a little while

 

[gene hughes]

Unless you're style of play is "pretend to be better players" I don't know what you could do.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=38091.msg1020372#msg1020372 date=1261613073]
Unless you're style of play is "pretend to be better players" I don't know what you could do.
[/quote]

Besides Babel thats our best XI.

I know there is one player out of position but he plays it for his National team.

 

[keniget]

It's three players out of position.

 

[gene hughes]

There are too many softies in your team.

 

[MaBigTip]

Yeah, well I don't think either of those are true, but its a matter of opinion. I think Babel should be our RW until he proves he can't hack being a starter. Aqua played a similar position for Roma and I'm assuming that Mascher can cover him and the back four solo if its his only task. I also consider Kelly pretty much equally proficient at all positions across the back four. Along with Gerrard playing a position he plays for the national team and it sets him up to become the provider. Which is necessary with his groin issues. Anyway our squad doesn't lend itself to a clear best XI. It's almost as if a 3-5-2 would fit our players best without actually being a good formation in practice.

 

[gene hughes]

There are too many brown-haired players in your team.

 

[keniget]

Heh, oh come on. I know it was a bit of a flippant comment you made earlier, so it's perhaps I'm being a little unfair by picking on it, but even so, it's a little rich to comment on Rafa being unable to grasp the concept of picking a team that puts the best players in their best positions and then post that team.

Babel - however you explain this away, RW is out of position for him.

Gerrard - it's far easier to make a case for Gerrard playing as an attacking midfielder in the centre these days than it is for playing him wide left. Earlier in the thread, with regards to Rafa's decisions, you said we needed him back in midfield and suggested Gerrard could replace Alonso in terms of passing. You don't seem to be taking your own advice. And what's more, having Gerrard roaming in a free role on the left with our problems at LB spells trouble.

Kelly - what leads you to believe he's equally proficient in all positions across the back other than the fact that you've read on the net that he was okay in a few games for Huddersfield at LB?

As I alluded to earlier in this thread, we have no options in this squad and it's very difficult to field a lineup in which you couldn't suggest that at least one or two players are playing 'out of position' if you're going to be picky about it.