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Strikers: who needs them?

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
I was just thinking... are centre-forwards becoming obsolete at the highest level of the game? It's striking (pardon the pun) to see the 3 teams dominating the EPL this season playing without anything resembling traditional #9's at the moment. City are the most radical example, of course – Pep has been building towards his "false 9" and then "double false nine" system for his entire coaching career and you have to say this season in particular their attacking play looks like a pretty conclusive proof of concept – the way they consistently cut through packed defenses by playing in the half-spaces and channels and leaving the opposition CBs without anyone to mark is really slick. Why jostle for position against defenders if you can just run into the spaces around them?

People sometimes think of Klopp as somewhat of an antipode to Guardiola with more players in clearly defined roles as opposed to the amorphous and interchangeable "total tiki-taka-ball" of City, but let's not forget that our only real striker at present is Divock Origi who has played roughly 300 minutes in all competitions this season. Our front 3 consists of 2 wing-forwards supplemented by either a diminutive winger playing through the middle or a #10 who became a false 9. Even our back-up "strikers" are the likes Minamino and Ox – there is no indication that signing a "proper #9" has ever been a serious priority for Klopp. The flexible attacking system Klopp has built at LFC is distinct, but every bit as radical and innovative as anything Guardiola has envisioned and our fans' debates about "the need to buy a proper striker" have long ago disappeared in the rearview mirror. Klopp's comments about "hoping that at some point Origi finds another manager who will play him more often" should be viewed in this vein as well – Divock might have the requisite quality to play as our striker, but most of the time, we don't actually need one!

Chelsea's example might be the most instructive of all. Lukaku was hailed as the missing piece of the puzzle, someone would replace or supplement the misfiring Werner and transform their attack. However after the first decent few games the goals dried up and the variety and fluidity of their attack has suffered with him in the side without consistent offensive production to compensate for it. The low point was the game against City when Lukaku and Werner playing as a pair together created absolutely nothing of note against City's defense and the game in Turin the same week when they were blanked and then-unemployed Conte famously went on Italian TV and proclaimed that Tuchel has no clue how to use Lukaku correctly. Then, in the first game after both Lukaku and Werner were injured, Chelsea scored 7 goals (OK, to be fair it was against Norwich), but more importantly the fluidity of their attack returned for good and in the return CL group game Juventus were obliterated 4:0 with Pulisic playing at false 9.

Now, I know what everyone will say – what about Lewandowski, what about Haaland? Well, first of all – and this might be a bit controversial – in all honesty I don't think the German league offers enough of a proof of an attacker's quality any more. Yes, before people start screaming at me, they are both great strikers, probably the best two pure #9's in the game, but my argument is not that great strikers don't exist, but that at the very top of the game they are not exactly essential. Would Klopp find use for someone like Lewandowski if he suddenly came to Liverpool? Sure, any manager would love to have a player like him. But would he improve our attack all that much, would we score 4 goals in every game instead of 3 – I'm not so sure. Would Harry Kane improve City's attack? Possibly in some moments, but they are doing just fine without him (while Kane himself has only 1 league goal to show for his season so far). And who knows – even Haaland might not take the Premier League by storm quite as much as everyone assumes he would, judging by the examples of all the big physical strikers who came to the Premier League from the continent in recent years and found it rather difficult.

I don't want people to take this as some kind of sweeping indictment of centre-forwards as a profession. I personally have a soft spot for natural-born finishers, the likes of Fowler or Raul and it would be sad for me if these kinds of players become as obsolete as the likes of Totti and Baggio. There are still plenty of strikers who are essential to their teams, the likes of Benzema, Vardy, Jimenez, Bamford etc, Kane will probably start scoring again and Lukaku might figure out how to fit in Tuchel's system eventually (although I think Tuchel would do well to take Conte's advice and only use Lukaku in a limited way as a counter-attacking threat rather than allow the whole attacking game to depend on him). But I think this trend of the gradual diminishing of the importance of strikers at the absolute top level will continue. When Lewandowski retires, Bayern will probably not replace him with a like-for-like, but instead go for a swarm of pacy wing-forwards and false double-inverted wingers or whatever the latest tactical fad will be at the time. Barcelona is building their attack around Depay, who is a false 9 and desperately want to buy City's one-time false 9 Ferran Torres to continue in that vein. Atletico are experimenting with the likes of Joao Felix and Griezmann up front. Real Madrid's main attacking threat of the future will be Vinicius and players like him – even Mbappe who is somewhere between a striker and a wing-forward. Centre-forwards will always exist, but the future does not belong to them.
 
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There is some truth to that - at the highest level of the game - given the way City and Liverpool have set up in recent years and Barcelona before them. I wonder whether it's innovation that was borne out of idealism / pure vision or simple pragmatism. Guardiolas teams (and latterly Klopps) often face teams that are happy to park the bus for 90mins so the traditional static attack is going to be far less effective in dealing with that.

Another thing to note is that this has been preceded / accompanied with the popularisation of the pressing game and the overall rise in the standard and approach of the lesser teams (at least in the Premier league). The old school one dimensional striker types have already pretty much gone the way of the #10 and it's pretty much accepted across the board that strikers / forwards need to offer more than goals for the team etc. Kane is often heralded as an archetypal #9 but he does a lot of work in deeper positions bringing others into play (and this is perhaps with Guardiola was interested).

Whether the false #9, super flexible type setup will be the template for the future is kinda hard to judge because the current sample size is quite small (and these days we have fewer elite teams it would seem given the way the other leagues have gone).

It'll be interesting to see how things develop over the next few years. Lewa and Benzema will probably make way at some point so we can see what Bayern and Real do... though have had a lot of success in recent years playing more expansive games, which accommodate strikers more easily. Guardiola tried his thing at Bayern and never quite got it to work like he did at Barca and City. Haaland is held up as a generational talent - almost with Ronaldo / Messi level hype - so all eyes will be on him to deliver. Who else have we got coming up that is more along the lines of a #9? Adeyimi? David at a push?
 
Vlahovic is the obvious answer of a true #9 coming through. He's absolutely shitting goals too. Expect him at a big club soon.

The likes of Adeyemi or Jonathan David don't look like true numbers 9s.
 
Vlahovic is the obvious answer of a true #9 coming through. He's absolutely shitting goals too. Expect him at a big club soon.

The likes of Adeyemi or Jonathan David don't look like true numbers 9s.
Based on what I saw yesterday from Milan, I understand why he's shitting goals in Seria A.
 
Outperforming his xG and took quite a couple of penalties too (but has a great record).

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It will be interesting to see if top young strikers like Vlahovic will still command huge fees on the market like the best #9’s of the previous eras did. If you’re Man City, are you really that desperate for a “proper striker” if you are scoring and winning without one? Same for us - we don’t have a striker, other than Origi, and are not in the market for one. In the past you would expect 6-7 top clubs to battle it out for someone like Vlahovic, now I don’t know what his options are - Spurs to replace Kane if they sell him? Inter to replace Lukaku? That’s not much.

There are certainly teams who still build around a #9, but the pool seems to be dwindling and you have to be a pretty phenomenal player to check all the boxes of what’s expected of a #9 in the modern game - be able to play up front on your own, bring teammates into play, defend and press from the front, show good movement and interchange with other attackers (can’t just stand in the penalty area and wait for the ball to come to you)… oh and then the small matter of actually scoring goals. It’s a pretty impossible check-list that would eliminate most strikers of yesterday and that only a few extraordinary players in the world will be able to pull off.
 
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While wide forwards seem to be more of the standard now, and "false nines" or deep forwards or what you call them, it is great having someone who is really good up front and finishing well as an alternative game plan.

Ian Rush could do it.
 
Juventus seems to be the most plausible destination for Vlahovic if they can afford him. They haven't got many goals in the team and Morata's loan is ending.
 
Depends on what the number 9 does. Rush would have been brilliant in this side because he was constantly tracking back when needed or pressing defenders and causing errors. Fowler and Owen, much less so.
 
It will be interesting to see if top young strikers like Vlahovic will still command huge fees on the market like the best #9’s of the previous eras did. If you’re Man City, are you really that desperate for a “proper striker” if you are scoring and winning without one? Same for us - we don’t have a striker, other than Origi, and are not in the market for one. In the past you would expect 6-7 top clubs to battle it out for someone like Vlahovic, now I don’t know what his options are - Spurs to replace Kane if they sell him? Inter to replace Lukaku? That’s not much.

There are certainly teams who still build around a #9, but the pool seems to be dwindling and you have to be a pretty phenomenal player to check all the boxes of what’s expected of a #9 in the modern game - be able to play up front on your own, bring teammates into play, defend and press from the front, show good movement and interchange with other attackers (can’t just stand in the penalty area and wait for the ball to come to you)… oh and then the small matter of actually scoring goals. It’s a pretty impossible check-list that would eliminate most strikers of yesterday and that only a few extraordinary players in the world will be able to pull off.
I'm not so sure that is the case and that this current trend will persist. Maybe it's simply a case of availability / cost. If most teams could get their hands on Haaland or Lewandowski they would most likely take them.
 
Tuchel obviously wanted Lukaku, there’s no way he would have said no to a 90m pound signing, and Guardiola really wanted Kane, with his club ready to pay 100m.
So two of the top three wanted a pure striker playing for them this season. And all of them apart from us are lining up to sign Haaland next season, and we’d probably be in the mix if we were minted.
I think it’s pretty obvious that if there are top notch #9’s available, the best teams will be in for them. It’s just that there have been very few of them over the last 5 years, and it just so happens that the two prominent managers in the world can make their systems work perfectly with wide forwards + a supporting central forward. As others have said, Rush would have worked perfectly in our current side.
If the discussion here is based on a #9 being the big lumbering forward that’s good with his head, then I’d agree. Far more is required from a center forward for today’s top teams.
 
City will undoubtedly go back in for a striker in Jan or the summer, whether that's Kane or Haaland. Utd play with Ronaldo as a 9. Leicester with Vardy, Spurs with Kane. As noted Chelsea specifically brought in Lukaku for that purpose. I think we are an outlier in that sense as we've never really attempted to play with a centre forward during Klopps time.
 
https://www.sportinglife.com/footba...ical-review-after-narrow-saturday-wins/196857

[article]Manchester City have scored 33 goals in 16 Premier League games so far. That's a goals-per-game ratio of 2.06, putting them on course to score 78 goals this season, which would be their lowest total since Manuel Pellegrini's final year at the club.

Too often in football we build narrative by starting from the result and working backwards, and there's no doubt many will assess Manchester City's 1-0 win over Wolverhampton Wanderers as the sign of champions; a gritty, hard-earned three points.

But that is not accurate, because if it was not for Raul Jimenez's foolish red card and an astonishingly poor VAR decision to award Man City the match-winning penalty this game would be seen as another worrying sign of City's need for a striker.

It might sound a bit tired, perhaps even a bit too easy, to say a striker would solve a creeping difficulty breaking down a deep-lying defensive blockade like Wolves', but having someone making the right runs and movements in the penalty box would fundamentally alter how City play.

Too often on Saturday they worked the ball cleverly into the half-spaces – exploiting the gaps Wolves left on the outside of their narrow three-man midfield – only to run out of ideas.

Some excellent runs from Raheem Sterling gave Joao Cancelo an option on many occasions, but it wasn't too hard for a very strong Wolves defence to shepherd these situations.

As in the goalless performances against Tottenham Hotspur, Crystal Palace, and Southampton in the Premier League this season, City played too slowly and generally moved the ball in front of the Wolves defence.

It isn't about lacking a player to put chances away. It's about having someone whose movement encourages chance creation in the first place.

To Pep Guardiola’s credit, it was his tactical tweak at half-time that led to Man City's narrow win – even if he did rely on a huge stroke of luck.

Throughout the first half the Wolves midfield had been pulled too far over to City's left, where Jack Grealish threatened, and that meant Cancelo had acres of room on the other side once the hosts switched the play.

Spotting this, the City manager appeared to encourage Bernardo Silva to move high and wide to that flank at the start of the second half, and it was his pressure – dribbling into the space – that kept Wolves pinned back and, eventually, saw Silva's cross from that side 'handled' by Joao Moutinho.

It was very much a fortunate win for Man City in a game that could easily have ended in dropped points for Guardiola’s team. If they play like this through a gruelling winter schedule their winning run won't go on for much longer.[/article]
 
Nearly forgot about him.



(Before today's 2 goals)


Mourinho and Rafa are two of the most high-profile managers who actually consider a “proper CF” as essential and build their attacking play around a “big man up top.” Probably not coincidentally, they are both also increasingly viewed as managerial dinosaurs playing boring, outdated football and are on a downward spiral in terms of the profile of clubs who are interested in their services.
 
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