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Sunlit Uplands

[article]

Maybe – just maybe – power will fall into Keir Starmer’s lap. The prime minister who led the Tories to an 80-seat majority less than three years ago has spectacularly self-immolated, tainting his colleagues and party in the process. A cost of living crisis gnaws at the personal finances of millions, topping off 12 years of economic stagnation. A Tory leadership contest promises to have all the dignity of a pack of cornered rats, with prospective candidates drumming up a culture war on trans rights while proposing expensive tax cuts for big business, rather than addressing the bread-and-butter issues of a crisis-stricken nation.

Labour had better hope that it is possible in these favourable circumstances to win an election without offering a vision for the UK, because that remains the party’s strategy. The official opposition’s chosen dividing lines with the government have been about character rather than policy. Given Boris Johnson has the sort of character that would be rejected by most Hollywood scriptwriters for being too cartoonishly disreputable, there was least a logic to this, especially as Starmer’s serial dishonesty in the Labour leadership campaign – here’s a man who stuck his hand up on television when asked if he supported renationalising energy, then stated he did not support nationalisation when safely elected – has been studiously ignored by media outlets.

But betting the house on personality rather than vision has caused increasing discomfort among MPs across Labour’s political spectrum. Until Partygate broke, the Tories enjoyed a consistent polling lead, with Johnson topping rankings for the preferred prime minister. Just over a year ago, Labour lost the Hartlepool byelection – a seat it retained in the 2019 inferno – nearly lost Batley and Spen, and was battered in local elections. The transformation of the party’s fortunes has been solely down to self-inflicted calamity on the part of the government.

The underlying polling bears this out. Among political commentators and Labour bigwigs, the Jeremy Corbyn era is treated as a catastrophic aberration with no lessons to be learned, other than that the left of the party must be permanently crushed. If true, the polling figures are even more alarming than they look. According to recent polling by Ipsos, 33% of Britons think Labour is fit to govern, down five percentage points from November 2017; 50% think it is concerned about people in need, down 16 points; 45% think it understands the problems facing Britain, down nine points; 26% think it has a good team of leaders, down five points; and 35% think it looks after “the interests of people like me”, down 10 points. Meanwhile, 38% of those polled state they like Starmer, eight points lower than Corbyn four months after the 2017 election; and 44% state they like the Labour party – down 13 points from the end of 2018. More than half the population doesn’t know what Starmer stands for, with less than a quarter saying they do.

That Labour leads over the Tories on these questions isn’t a positive endorsement for the opposition; it is symptomatic of how deep a hole Johnson plunged the government into. Indeed, according to YouGov pollingconducted before Johnson’s resignation, of the 37% of voters who believe Starmer would be a better prime minister than Johnson – bear in mind 43% said they didn’t know or refused to answer – seven in 10 ascribe their choice to Johnson’s weaknesses, with just 27% opting for the Labour leader’s strengths.


Those hoping Starmer’s speech today would rectify the party’s lack of vision will have been disappointed. That’s not to say there aren’t good Labour policies out there. Starmer has pledged to scrap charitable status for private schools and the VAT exemption on school fees, using the money to support state schools. Other announcements include a national care service and three gigafactories for electric car batteries. All of these policies, it should be said, are borrowed from the Corbyn era, despite Starmer’s repudiation of the 2017 manifesto – underlining that the Labour left still has the monopoly on interesting ideas.
The problem is this scattergun approach isn’t backed up by a clear vision stitching the ideas together, to give the electorate a clear idea of the sort of society Labour would build. In Starmer’s speech, he declared that Labour’s election focus would be “wealth creation” and making “Britain richer” – all fine, but which politician would argue otherwise? The structural problem with the British economy is that the vast amounts of wealth generated end up concentrated in very few hands, while wages are 47% lower than if the trend set between the end of the second world war and the financial crash had continued. He went on to say, “We won’t retreat to a comfort zone on public services and hope the focus of the country shifts”: a mystifying statement given well-funded services are the comfort zone of the electorate, too.

Underlying all of this is an even more unsettling Labour strategy. One of the few positive political developments of the past few years is that the deficit and debt stopped being the focal point of political discussion. The public tired of austerity; Johnson recognised this and committed to spending. This offers Labour rich opportunities, because it is supposed to be the party of investment. Yet the Labour opposition appears obsessed with relitigating the public finances, assailing the Tories’ “magic money tree” and uncosted policy commitments. Why drive political discussion on to terrain that penalises progressive politics?

Complaints about a lack of vision aren’t confined to the left: Tony Blair has spoken of voters being left unclear about where Labour stands, but his suggested remedy – biometric cards to fight illegal immigration – underlines the depressing paucity of ideas on the Labour right. The danger confronting the opposition is that after an inward-looking carnival of rightwingery, a ruthless successor to Johnson will reconstruct the Tories’ 2019 voter coalition, while Labour both fails to win over Tory supporters and disillusions parts of its own support base. Labour has relied on Tory failure and – with Johnson at the helm – that has worked for a time. But will stagnating living standards and potentially lasting damage inflicted on the Tory brand sustain such an approach? What Labour surely needs is a vision – a clear sense of how it would govern the country it seeks to serve, and in whose interests – and it needs it fast
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...johnson-failures-labour-strategy-keir-starmer

[/article]
 
and which of Sir Keir’s policies do you find particularly sensible?

I'm just saying to move on from the absolute horrific state of greedy, fraudulent, liars in the Tory party. I've said plenty of times in this and other threads I think they are both crap.. but one is just another version of crap.

Trump is a horrific, pathetic narcissist and Biden is basically a walking shell of a man propped up to run the country (in the same way the US have other puppet regimes they now have a puppet regime in their own country).. They are both shit, but I just wanted Trump out I was ok with Biden winning.

Boris lied his way through life and he's ended up in the top job, cos people believed the he's so clever, witty and a great orator line. Then you have multiple lists of problems from the conservatives and their cabinet .. and you wonder why people have a anyone but them attitude? They've lied, been incompetent at best, and a shambles.. propped up by this 'free press'.

Doesn't mean I think Keir is amazing, has balls of steel, is authentic and ready to lead the country.. but looking at the alternatives right now.. I'm ready to go ahead and just get the Tory party out. Take their despotic greedy, pocket lining, back stabbing, no loyalty, no honour, cheating fraudulent selves and go back to papering over the cracks in their soulless, morally bankrupt lives with gold wallpaper and drinking suitcases full of booze trying to find some meaning to their existence after selling their souls.

Policy?.. policy at the moment is navigating around questions like 'can a woman have a penis?' while people seemingly can't afford to feed their kids.
 
It's a shame the Durham police didn't fine the boring bastard. Labour needs someone who can put the boot in, and it's not in him.

Rayner is loads better at the depatch box, and that's so important right now - when like you say everything opposite is scum.
 
I'm not personally attacking you so soz of you thought I was. I will say my piece though. . I'm pointing out you're a full card carrying member of a party that's systematically destroying the country and the communities within it so they can further enrich their billionaire paymasters. That's not conspiracy theory it's reality. Did you vote Tory in the last election in the full knowledge that Johnson was a serial liar and he was going to be an absolute disaster for the country? You're an intelligent fella Richey you could see what was going to happen. It was glaring and if you voted for them you're as culpable for the state of the country right now as the scum in government IMO. That doesn't mean you are scum and if you want to read that as personal that's up to you. You want to change the Tory party don't vote for it. If you didn't vote for them then fair does. It's the same as those who voted for Brexit and now claim they were somehow lied to or mislead. Do me a favour. Met some absolute tool in Spain after the CL final. Resident there, "Cockney Red" (Utd) spouting some shite about how he voted for Brexit because he was "hoodwinked" into it and regrets it. Oh do fuck off. If people vote for something then they need to own it and accept they contributed to the problem thats there instead of trying to spin it onto the opposition. And maybe think twice about doing the same thing again just because "they always have". Like these prick Brexiteers blaming Remainers for Brexit being a mess. There's no such thing as a "Remainers Brexit" because they didn't want any form of it. Maybe people need to start thinking about voting with their conscience, if they have any, instead of historical allegiances. Maybe people need to stop blaming those they're being told to blame for their problems. Being told to by the pricks in the power and the media who are playing them like an absolute fiddle while they make more and more money they'll never be able to spend. Right now I won't be voting Labour which I always have just more Blair like Tory lite but one things without doubt and this current government is of dishonest scumbag proportions that have never been seen before. You can't help but see it but will you be likely vote for it again? I'll be amazed if you don't. The sad thing in the country is that all parties seem to have shifted somewhat to the right it's actually a dangerous political place to be right now.

Thanks for that. I respect your view, as I always do, and agree in some ways. My situation is a little more complicated than that but it’s not something that I especially wish to go into, for a number of reasons.

What I will say is that, despite what you may believe, I have never simply voted Conservative out of habit, or because I’m anti-Labour or anything like that. I would never say I would never vote Labour and would never say that I would never vote Lib Dem, just as I would never say that I will always vote Tory regardless.
 
Thanks for that. I respect your view, as I always do, and agree in some ways. My situation is a little more complicated than that but it’s not something that I especially wish to go into, for a number of reasons.

What I will say is that, despite what you may believe, I have never simply voted Conservative out of habit, or because I’m anti-Labour or anything like that. I would never say I would never vote Labour and would never say that I would never vote Lib Dem, just as I would never say that I will always vote Tory regardless.

Well that's good to read. More people need to look at parties and actually understand what they truly stand for at that moment at time. I'm afraid way too many just look at it as a box ticking exercise without actually doing any kind of analysis and thus we've ended up in the absolute undeniable mess we're in right now
 
Well that's good to read. More people need to look at parties and actually understand what they truly stand for at that moment at time. I'm afraid way too many just look at it as a box ticking exercise without actually doing any kind of analysis and thus we've ended up in the absolute undeniable mess we're in right now

It's just the nature of the system.

There's no incentive to know anything or vote conscientiously because everyone's vote is one among like 30 million.

So almost nobody does.
 
I'm convinced that the country has been caught in a collective insanity since 2012, its like the Olympics were the highlight of outward looking progressive British culture, and ever since the countries descended into inward looking, morally repugnant, utter self harming stupidity.

Brexit became the vehicle to legitimise and embolden some of the most ridiculously stupid policies and rhetorics in British politics and more importantly in the British, sorry English, public, and I truly believe its broken our system, and I cant see it being fixed anytime soon.

For me I'm resigned to the fact we'll probably keep getting these utterly ridiculous Tory governments in perpetuity. I was aghast when we got Theresa May after the shit show that was 'Brexit means Breakfast', but the majority of Boris just killed all hope for me. I dont care about Jeremy Corbyn not being all that, or the Lib Dems being a bit meh, the fact that an absolute joke of a man who'd just shat over all parliamentary norms, purged the decent Tories out of the party, and run on a brexit manifesto that was categorically proven to be completely flawed, was still able to command such a huge lead for me points to a fundamental issue with our democracy, with our press, and with the populace.

Elections have become less about politics, these days they're just culture wars, culture wars against a phantom enemy, and all this is powered by the press that focus on shit like Starmer having a beer far more than Boris Johnson being a serial liar, con man, and utterly incompetent human being, yet alone Prime Minister.

I dont know why I wrote this post, or where I'm going with it, I guess i just wanted a rant as I just cant comprehend that I'm living in a time where the sorry state of our politicians make that utter weasel David Cameron, and Ed Miliband, look like supreme elder statesmens compared to what we're dealing with now, and I'm just sad cos I can't see a way that the nations days aren't numbered.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, this country has been successfully taken in a right wing coup, and unless a miracle happens and voting reform somehow happens, this country will remain at the whim of the middle englanders who will continue voting in the person who best attacks the person the press is telling them to hate, all the while anyone who thinks otherwise will continue to be suppressed by a voting system which allows 40% of the voting public to effective give the other 60% zero voice.

Democracy my fucking arse.
 
I'm convinced that the country has been caught in a collective insanity since 2012, its like the Olympics were the highlight of outward looking progressive British culture, and ever since the countries descended into inward looking, morally repugnant, utter self harming stupidity.

Brexit became the vehicle to legitimise and embolden some of the most ridiculously stupid policies and rhetorics in British politics and more importantly in the British, sorry English, public, and I truly believe its broken our system, and I cant see it being fixed anytime soon.

For me I'm resigned to the fact we'll probably keep getting these utterly ridiculous Tory governments in perpetuity. I was aghast when we got Theresa May after the shit show that was 'Brexit means Breakfast', but the majority of Boris just killed all hope for me. I dont care about Jeremy Corbyn not being all that, or the Lib Dems being a bit meh, the fact that an absolute joke of a man who'd just shat over all parliamentary norms, purged the decent Tories out of the party, and run on a brexit manifesto that was categorically proven to be completely flawed, was still able to command such a huge lead for me points to a fundamental issue with our democracy, with our press, and with the populace.

Elections have become less about politics, these days they're just culture wars, culture wars against a phantom enemy, and all this is powered by the press that focus on shit like Starmer having a beer far more than Boris Johnson being a serial liar, con man, and utterly incompetent human being, yet alone Prime Minister.

I dont know why I wrote this post, or where I'm going with it, I guess i just wanted a rant as I just cant comprehend that I'm living in a time where the sorry state of our politicians make that utter weasel David Cameron, and Ed Miliband, look like supreme elder statesmens compared to what we're dealing with now, and I'm just sad cos I can't see a way that the nations days aren't numbered.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, this country has been successfully taken in a right wing coup, and unless a miracle happens and voting reform somehow happens, this country will remain at the whim of the middle englanders who will continue voting in the person who best attacks the person the press is telling them to hate, all the while anyone who thinks otherwise will continue to be suppressed by a voting system which allows 40% of the voting public to effective give the other 60% zero voice.

Democracy my fucking arse.

Spot on. There's a huge swathe of the populace who just suck up every line they're fed hook, line and sinker. They're either too stupid, too angry or too lazy to see beyond the absolute shit they're being spoon fed and turn their anger to things like a "liberal elite" who don't actually exist because the real elite - the ridiculously wealthy, those in power and media have spun the bullshit so many times it actually become believable to them. Immigration another case in question. All this fear mongering about them coming over here and taking our jobs and now all of a sudden there's loads of jobs that can't be filled because nobody wants them. It's hilarious. Maybe we should move all the farms to Rwanda.
 
Suella Braverman with the classic clamping down on "shirkers" comment. Of course oblivious to many of her filthy rich colleagues and party backers well documented tax avoidance let's blame a vulnerable group in society for all our ills. It's the fault of the poor that you're poor!
 
She's well aware of what's gonna ring true with most of the people voting on the final two. Pity for her most of them are racists.
 
She's well aware of what's gonna ring true with most of the people voting on the final two. Pity for her most of them are racists.

She won't get that far. Mind you, I didn't think she would make it into the first round but apparently she has.
 
Truss would be hilarious as prime minister.
liz-truss.gif
 
She won't get that far. Mind you, I didn't think she would make it into the first round but apparently she has.

Sunak is already at the culture wars too. The final debate will be 'I hate them the most' v 'No I hated them first'. Internal polling of the conservative party membership will reveal that the majority are on massive DB pensions with their mortgages paid and a huge rise to the state pension kicking in next year, and the things that they'll be arsed about are whatever Richard Desmond gets them frothing over. Fuck the cost of living, fuck social justice, fuck levelling up, go all in on trannies. That's what this great nation of ours demands.
 
I'm convinced that the country has been caught in a collective insanity since 2012, its like the Olympics were the highlight of outward looking progressive British culture, and ever since the countries descended into inward looking, morally repugnant, utter self harming stupidity.

Brexit became the vehicle to legitimise and embolden some of the most ridiculously stupid policies and rhetorics in British politics and more importantly in the British, sorry English, public, and I truly believe its broken our system, and I cant see it being fixed anytime soon.

For me I'm resigned to the fact we'll probably keep getting these utterly ridiculous Tory governments in perpetuity. I was aghast when we got Theresa May after the shit show that was 'Brexit means Breakfast', but the majority of Boris just killed all hope for me. I dont care about Jeremy Corbyn not being all that, or the Lib Dems being a bit meh, the fact that an absolute joke of a man who'd just shat over all parliamentary norms, purged the decent Tories out of the party, and run on a brexit manifesto that was categorically proven to be completely flawed, was still able to command such a huge lead for me points to a fundamental issue with our democracy, with our press, and with the populace.

Elections have become less about politics, these days they're just culture wars, culture wars against a phantom enemy, and all this is powered by the press that focus on shit like Starmer having a beer far more than Boris Johnson being a serial liar, con man, and utterly incompetent human being, yet alone Prime Minister.

I dont know why I wrote this post, or where I'm going with it, I guess i just wanted a rant as I just cant comprehend that I'm living in a time where the sorry state of our politicians make that utter weasel David Cameron, and Ed Miliband, look like supreme elder statesmens compared to what we're dealing with now, and I'm just sad cos I can't see a way that the nations days aren't numbered.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, this country has been successfully taken in a right wing coup, and unless a miracle happens and voting reform somehow happens, this country will remain at the whim of the middle englanders who will continue voting in the person who best attacks the person the press is telling them to hate, all the while anyone who thinks otherwise will continue to be suppressed by a voting system which allows 40% of the voting public to effective give the other 60% zero voice.

Democracy my fucking arse.
Tories only got such a large majority for two reasons.

1 - Corbyn, he was way too far left for the majority.

2 - The public were fed up of everything being blocked in parliament.. remember the days of everything being rejected, regardless of whether it was common sense.

In a way, we got lucky that Boris was in power during COVID so didn't have a chance to really force through many controversial policies.
 
I fucking hate saying anything positive about the fucker but his own policies aren't too bad at face value. He ended up surrounding himself with a bunch of Tommy Robinson apologists as that was the only way he was getting brexit sorted, and the rest is history.

And the left really does need to address the whole nanny state thing. How come every centrist govt on the planet wants bigger and bigger databases and more and more power to shut shit down? It's only the swivel eyed libertarians saving us from the tyranny that's just around the corner. Starmer would have made a right Trudeau of everything.

...Yep, it's all fucked.
 
She won't get it.. none of the current cabinet (I include Javid and Sunak in that). Should be anywhere near a leadership contest. A who's who of cunts.

If only Angela Raynor’s growler could run for leader of the Tory party…
 
Spot on. There's a huge swathe of the populace who just suck up every line they're fed hook, line and sinker. They're either too stupid, too angry or too lazy to see beyond the absolute shit they're being spoon fed and turn their anger to things like a "liberal elite" who don't actually exist because the real elite - the ridiculously wealthy, those in power and media have spun the bullshit so many times it actually become believable to them. Immigration another case in question. All this fear mongering about them coming over here and taking our jobs and now all of a sudden there's loads of jobs that can't be filled because nobody wants them. It's hilarious. Maybe we should move all the farms to Rwanda.

When the Sri Lankan immigrants start to arrive here, they'll be more intelligent and better educated than you are, why don't you ask them what happened to their country and why it happened. That information might lead you to vote intelligently, rather than to just feel you're voting intelligently then getting mad after things go to shit.

Or like I say, keep calm and clap your feelings back into their good place works too.
 
When the Sri Lankan immigrants start to arrive here, they'll be more intelligent and better educated than you are, why don't you ask them what happened to their country and why it happened. That information might lead you to vote intelligently, rather than to just feel you're voting intelligently then getting mad after things go to shit.

Or like I say, keep calm and clap your feelings back into their good place works too.

Already here and have been here long time. Did the Express not tell you that?
giphy.gif
 
When the Sri Lankan immigrants start to arrive here, they'll be more intelligent and better educated than you are, why don't you ask them what happened to their country and why it happened. That information might lead you to vote intelligently, rather than to just feel you're voting intelligently then getting mad after things go to shit.

Or like I say, keep calm and clap your feelings back into their good place works too.

Ah you're still a mad dribbling incoherent bellend I see dantes. Good to know.
 
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