Yeah, it's a no to Fabs in defence. There's no one else who can do his job effectively in midfield. I'd sooner put Philips in. With Ibou and Virgil either side of him his lack of pace is less of an issue. And he's obviously a beast in the air.
Tactical adjustments
- Thread starter dmishra
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Alright - I think fannying about with the system ultimately creates more confusion and undermines confidence.
The system works - and the components in the system trust it.
I think we tweaked “the system” to cope with Mane leaving & integrating Diaz and Nunez and things got fucked up - don’t know why - but we’ve lost the ability to press effectively and I don’t believe it’s down to “legs”.
Changing the lineup and the tactics every 5 minutes isn’t helping.
My head goes to default to factory settings mode - given the injuries 3
Allison
Gomez - Konate - Van Dijk - Greek Scouser
Hendo - Fabs - Thiago
Salah - Bobby - Jota
Bring Nunez on at 65 mins.
It won’t happen - but it’s what I’d do.
The system works - and the components in the system trust it.
I think we tweaked “the system” to cope with Mane leaving & integrating Diaz and Nunez and things got fucked up - don’t know why - but we’ve lost the ability to press effectively and I don’t believe it’s down to “legs”.
Changing the lineup and the tactics every 5 minutes isn’t helping.
My head goes to default to factory settings mode - given the injuries 3
Allison
Gomez - Konate - Van Dijk - Greek Scouser
Hendo - Fabs - Thiago
Salah - Bobby - Jota
Bring Nunez on at 65 mins.
It won’t happen - but it’s what I’d do.
Shout out for this.
Is the 4-2-2-2 now a possible long-term formation for this squad? Klopp certainly seems to be working towards that - I think this is the 4th successive game with this formation.
Long-term, this does make some sense with the squad makeup.
- Diaz is better suited as a free roaming winger operating in the half spaces than as an out and out LWF.
- Nunez is better suited in a front 2 where he can eat space with his running power than as a central pivot.
- Salah in the front 2 helps him get narrower
- Elliott and Carvalho are both better as half-space midfielders than as LWFs or at the pure RCM/LCM no. 8 positions.
- This obviates the need to buy 3 new mids. We could possibly make do with 1-2 really good purchases.
The 4-4-2 oddly seemed a lot more robust and steely yesterday compared to our normal 4-3-3. I think this was primarily because the wide players were doing an excellent job of covering the space in front of our full backs, resulting in 4 across the middle rather than 3.
The nice thing about the system is that against weaker low block teams at home you can give Elliott and Jota/Diaz much more freedom to roam, making it quite fluid.
Nunez clearly needs to play with a partner closer to him up front, and it gets Salah closer to goal instead of stuck out on the right.
A lot of positives to it.
The nice thing about the system is that against weaker low block teams at home you can give Elliott and Jota/Diaz much more freedom to roam, making it quite fluid.
Nunez clearly needs to play with a partner closer to him up front, and it gets Salah closer to goal instead of stuck out on the right.
A lot of positives to it.
Yes, agree with all that, it was much better and actually the chances created were better. In the absence of Jotta and/Diaz I want to see Curtis Jones play on that left side in a 4 4 2. Think with him on the left and ELliot on the right doing what he did yesterday would be great.
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Oops
No, I still want Curtis there, I did not want Carvalho to hog that space as I don't think he is physically strong enough yet.
Henderson, Gini and Fabinho. This was klopp's best functioning midfield. All tireless runners and intelligent pressing.
Nothing in this current midfield matches the DNA of that midfield.
Henderson's legs have gone, Fabinho looks exhausted and we never replaced Gini properly.
No point in overgushing in Thiago because even as good as Thiago is he comes with usage instructions that we aren't currently able to satisfy, in that we need TWO world class midfielders to complement Thiago. We only have one, Fabinho and he's exhausted.
Klopp has to change the tactics and either hope we can get a player in the winter transfer market or limp on to next summer
Nothing in this current midfield matches the DNA of that midfield.
Henderson's legs have gone, Fabinho looks exhausted and we never replaced Gini properly.
No point in overgushing in Thiago because even as good as Thiago is he comes with usage instructions that we aren't currently able to satisfy, in that we need TWO world class midfielders to complement Thiago. We only have one, Fabinho and he's exhausted.
Klopp has to change the tactics and either hope we can get a player in the winter transfer market or limp on to next summer
https://tomkinstimes.com/2015/10/profiling-klopps-tactics-at-dortmund/
PART ONE – Klopp’s Dortmund
Season 2008/2009 – the beginning
[article]Klopp starts his Dortmund career by deciding on a 4-2-2-2 formation and a direct attacking style of play based on quick transitions and heavy pressing. The five games played with that formation are somewhat underwhelming, with the performances uninspiring. The results of the first four games are acceptable, (2 wins and 2 draws) but a heavy 1-4 defeat away at Hoffenheim is the point Klopp decides to change the formation and reformat his side.
In comes the 4-diamond-2 formation that sees Klopp’s side lose only four of the remaining 29 games (all away from home). The team wins 13 and draws 12 matches while scoring 47 and conceding only 24 with 13 clean sheets. What’s more, during the whole season Dortmund remain unbeaten at home. Their home record sees more draws (9) than wins (8) but with a goal-scoring of +23 (34 for, 11 against) and 8 clean sheets.[/article]
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I find it interesting how all the coaches and pundits say formations don't matter; it's much more complicated than that and what matters is how the team plays within the formation etc. But in practice those obvious tactical tweaks do make a difference in a lot of cases. If your defense keeps conceding chances with 4 at the back, try 3 at the back and suddenly things are more solid. Putting an extra striker up top does usually make your attack more potent. An extra midfielder makes your midfield harder to penetrate – who would have guessed! We talk about tactics like it's rocket science, but sometimes it's stupidly easy – put more players in the areas where you want to have an advantage and that's exactly what will happen. Not always, but a lot of the time.
So Klopp sees our midfield is getting overran, we need to keep 3 in the middle pretty close together, but at the same time the attack is not quite as productive without Sadio and Nunez needs a partner – so "diamond" it is. Of course, then we will have a problem of numerical disadvantage on the flanks – we will allow more crosses into the box and the full-backs will be even more overworked – on the right Harvey will help the RB, but it's hard to see which LCM could do the defensive work required. I think in this system we might see Thiago at DM instead of misfiring Fabinho with some more willing runners on either side. Not sure this is the optimal use of our squad, but at least we're becoming less predictable.
I don't like this strange diamond style system we've been working on.
We have a crap midfield and we don't have good enough attacking midfielders to compensate just yet. Furthermore, it leaves our defence - fullbacks in particular - just as exposed as it was before.
Said it before but I'd like to see something along the lines of:
----------- Alisson
--- Gomez - Konate - VVD
TAA ---------------- Robertson/Tsimikas
- Hendo/Elliot -- Fabinho -- Thiago
-------- Salah -- Nunez
This gives our fullbacks more protection, alleviates some of the pressure on midfield and deals with the fact that all our fit attackers are better either in a traditional forward role or a free attacking role up front.
We have a crap midfield and we don't have good enough attacking midfielders to compensate just yet. Furthermore, it leaves our defence - fullbacks in particular - just as exposed as it was before.
Said it before but I'd like to see something along the lines of:
----------- Alisson
--- Gomez - Konate - VVD
TAA ---------------- Robertson/Tsimikas
- Hendo/Elliot -- Fabinho -- Thiago
-------- Salah -- Nunez
This gives our fullbacks more protection, alleviates some of the pressure on midfield and deals with the fact that all our fit attackers are better either in a traditional forward role or a free attacking role up front.
Yes we have an old midfield, but I don't necessarily think that them being old is the problem. The problem imo, is that this old midfied is backed up by a bunch of sick notes that can't be relied on. Or just shitty players that can't be relied on.
And who's fault is that?
And who's fault is that?
Which is correct. Henderson, Milner, and Salah have more than earned their place to be in the squad. The problem is Ox, Keita, and Thiago being dead, and Fabinho aging 30 years over the summer.
Not at the level and intensity that he requires, no.
You know what...i'm actually starting to think it's about high time we play 3 at the back too. But only against teams that press us.
Against teams that leave themselves open to counter attacks, for e.g. Ajax, it'd be wasteful to play with 3 CBs, because it'd mean one less up front/in midfield, and we'd break slower too.
Yeah, enough of that high defensive line we stubbornly insist on playing with, and time to try a 3 CB formation until we find some consistency and form again.
---------------------Alisson------------------------
Trent--------Konate-----VVD---------Robertson
------------Fab/Hendo----Thiago--------------------
----Elliott-------------------------Carvalho----
-------------------Salah---------------------
----------------------Nunez---------------------------
Yep, the diamond has to go. I'd look to bring Konate straight back into the side and put more support in the centre to support Fabinho. The CM's here need to stay reasonably central and trust Elliott and Carvalho to get back. It allows us greater control in the middle of the park than the diamond, but also keeps Salah central and close to goal. I would favour the full backs getting forward at the expense of Elliott and Carvalho, as getting balls into Nunez is essential. Salah will generally find a way to make opportunities/score goals regardless.
Trent--------Konate-----VVD---------Robertson
------------Fab/Hendo----Thiago--------------------
----Elliott-------------------------Carvalho----
-------------------Salah---------------------
----------------------Nunez---------------------------
Yep, the diamond has to go. I'd look to bring Konate straight back into the side and put more support in the centre to support Fabinho. The CM's here need to stay reasonably central and trust Elliott and Carvalho to get back. It allows us greater control in the middle of the park than the diamond, but also keeps Salah central and close to goal. I would favour the full backs getting forward at the expense of Elliott and Carvalho, as getting balls into Nunez is essential. Salah will generally find a way to make opportunities/score goals regardless.
Well there is lad we got from rangers and Nunez , so that's 2 lads who haven't got a word of English
He's an urban legend.
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