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The Klopp Problem

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6TimesaRed

6TimesaRed

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Injuries side..is his philosophy getting in the way of Liverpool's success this season...
?

We saw similar problems happen with Dortmund in his final season.. Injuries derailing their campaign.

Klopp trying to fulfill his philosophy with his tried and trusted methods. Does he need to resort to a plan B ? Does he have a plan B.. ??

Even in our first season under klopp with a very disjointed Team he inherited, we performed better than we are doing now, with players arguably less effective than we have now in most positions..


So what does Klopo need to change..

For me back to basics would be a good place to Start..
 
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We've just won about every game we've played for the last two years. So, no.
The squad needs to be restarted with some fresh faces and we need players back from injuries.
But, Klopp and our team need fans back in the stadium. Desperately.
 
I really don't see how anyone can look past our starting CB's missing the entire season alongside numerous other injuries being the sole reason why we've been dogshite for 8 weeks, I struggle to see a plan B.

I guess the next closest, is wait for Hendo to be fit and actually play him in midfield, or go fully meta and stick Fab back into midfield and play Kabak and Davies
 
6TimesaRed said:
Injuries side..is his philosophy getting in the way of Liverpool's success this season...
?

We saw similar problems happen with Dortmund in his final season.. Injuries derailing their campaign.

Klopp trying to fulfill his philosophy with his tried and trusted methods. Does he need to resort to a plan B ? Does he have a plan B.. ??

Even in our first season under klopp with a very disjointed Team he inherited, we performed better than we are doing now, with players arguably less effective than we have now in most positions..


So what does Klopo need to change..

For me back to basics would be a good place to Start..
Click to expand...

Fuck knows what is going on right now in the heads of our players - but I would rather get rid of everyone in our team before I get rid of Klopp and right now would prefer relegation than get rid of Klopp because I just cannot see who we get that will feel the pulse of the supporters like he does.

That said - when you talk about philosophy - what exactly do you mean ? - the Klopp football we witnessed in his first 1.5 seasons is nothing like the football we saw in the CL final losing year, and the football we saw last year was different to the football we saw the year we won the CL. There is also a different type of football this season that is based on more possession of the ball than probably any other team. Perhaps the system / formation of 4-3-3 has remained the same for the most part but there has not been a single philosophy - the way we play has been determined more by the skill and ability of the players we have to get the best out of them. As for back to basics - I think that message has be re-iterated to the players many times, we just got to accept that defense mistakes will occur when you have a bunch of defenders who are inexperienced at this current level and the team.

The only thing we can do right now is actually attack and maintain the possession football to actually use attack as the best form of defense, and all these players coming back from injury in the last few weeks are hardly your defensive types are they ? - they are all attacking mids.
 
I really don't see it as our problem, we are the victim of a load of bad circumstances. So we should just ride it out, hope we can scrape 4th and see what happens in the Champions League.

Then have a good pre-season. Replace the likes of Divock, Shaq and Ox with players on the edge of making a jump forward (like Jota). Easier said that done. But that work is already ongoing.
 
While I like Gini and all he has contributed with, I think its time to move on from there aswell.
 
As has been harped on about before, all the injuries and a tired team means we need to play and set up differently.
 
It's clear the whole morale of the team has been shot because of the constant mounting of injuries, how is any manager even with infinite plans supposed to make it work or get any rhythme going when we've had 17 different CB partnerhips FFS that's insane..you can't plan for that.

At the start of the season we were carrying on our fine form so identifying when/where the problems started are obvious.

I don't think we've managed to overturn a deficit/win a game going level at HT this season, or maybe once I can't recall? that's a big concern and needs addressing now.
 
I think we in some way have been over-performing.
We have a great starting XI when everyone's fit but it's a massive drop off from there.
Why haven't we been successful in the domestic cups, while City are winning quadruples? It's because they basically have two teams. We've barely had a team and half and it has caught up to us.
There are way too many non-contributing mediocre players among our back-ups and now that our starting XI took a major hit this season both injury- and form-wise, our backups weren't there to bail us out.
Jota was a step in the right direction, but in all honesty the likes of Origi, Shaq and Ox shouldn't be in the club. You can add Naby and the rest of the sicknotes as well. I mean Matip can be top class but what's the point if he's not around when needed?
Then again, is he really a back up? Cause' he's better than Gomez.

Who do we blame? FSG? Sure.
Klopp? Sure.
But most importantly, that motherfucking virus.
 
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Square peg round hole approach I felt Klopp has moved to facilitate the injury crisis..

And yes why wouldn't he.. because his methods have proved successful in the past..

However the square peg round hole approach has required the squad needing more pegs elsewhere, particularly more so when we lost all 1st choice CBs..

When I say back to basics approach.. players in the respective positions should be a start..

The flip side to Hendo being injured, we might well see CB now playing as CBs.. Our current best CB, and he has been decent whenever called upon, tbf.. Phillips can't even get a game.

It just worries me with Fabinho coming back he will prioritize him in defence. When our midfield is now the problem..

I would like to see Fabinho, Winjaldum and Keita as the midfield 3...

Plenty of bite and legs with that.

Thiago at this point should be a bench option.. Jones the same too, in fact I would have him in the team over Thiago right now.... but rotated with 1 out of wijnaldum or Keita

Having both Thiago and Curtis on the pitch at the same time its like is suicide.. signing our own death warrent..

Both are players that essentially can unlock defences, great options to have from the bench.. But both at the same time... Ouch.. it limits our usual strengths..
 
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jexykrodic said:
It's almost as if you lose your key players you're not as good.
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Fans didn't expect to see the massive drop off.

Normal for performance levels to not be as good but dropping as many points as we have against utter shite, losing home games to fucking dross for me is totally unacceptable.

Championship sides have beaten the likes of Newcastle, Brighton and Burnley this season.
 
Hansern said:
While I like Gini and all he has contributed with, I think its time to move on from there aswell.
Click to expand...
See, I don't see a world where we don't miss Gini, he was never a goalscorer for us, never the creative maestro but we're going to miss his ball carrying, retention and combative nature in midfield for sure.

I guess I see it as, we have zero injuries, VVD, Gomez,Jota have played all matches up til now, we're top 2 comfortably and Gini is a big part of that reason, I really think he's understated by his role and underestimated by fans.
 
tomasjj said:
As has been harped on about before, all the injuries and a tired team means we need to play and set up differently.
Click to expand...
Maybe so - but we are not really getting the time for such mid-season transformation when we are playing 2 games a week.
 
HC said:
See, I don't see a world where we don't miss Gini, he was never a goalscorer for us, never the creative maestro but we're going to miss his ball carrying, retention and combative nature in midfield for sure.

I guess I see it as, we have zero injuries, VVD, Gomez,Jota have played all matches up til now, we're top 2 comfortably and Gini is a big part of that reason, I really think he's understated by his role and underestimated by fans.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I think his form is suffering from all this contract stance. I love Gini, but in his last 16 games he has 1 successful tackle.
The gaping hole in midfield these days isnt helped by that.
 
Modo said:
Why haven't we been successful in the domestic cups, while City are winning quadruples?.
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They haven't ... the time they named themselves "fourmidables" (which no one else used) the "four" included the f'kin charity shield

We won more of a quadruple when we were simultaneous holders of the European Cup, the Super Cup, the Club World Cup, and the League

Maybe our biggest problem is fans downplaying our achievements while exaggerating those of our "rivals"
 
tombrown said:
They haven't ... the time they named themselves "fourmidables" (which no one else used) the "four" included the f'kin charity shield

We won more of a quadruple when we were simultaneous holders of the European Cup, the Super Cup, the Club World Cup, and the League

Maybe our biggest problem is fans downplaying our achievements while exaggerating those of our "rivals"
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I'm not really bothered about the league cup and also my point about quadruples was how City are able to compete in every competition, when we're usually dumped out early. Also, I think it's more impressive and possibly harder winning cup competitions with several stages than a one off game.
Winning the super cup and World club cup is great, but it takes more to win the FA cup and the League cup.
 
tombrown said:
City couldn't qualify for either
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True, they haven't managed to win the CL and I guess that's the only thing left for them.
But, while we were solely focusing on one or two competitions, they were doing the business in everything else as well.
This year they'll probably do another domestic treble.
CL might be a step too far considering how good Bayern are.
 
Why are people even entertaining shite like this? Do we have to put up with idiots looking for something deeper rooted than the blatantly obvious?

"Klopp's been found out", "Klopp's reaching the same point he did at Dortmund".

No, we've had crippling injuries and are stuck between playing midfielders or Championship standard defenders, key players haven't had a rest, we lack depth, our CL and Premiership winning side was backed amidst just about the worst defensive crisis by the club spending big on a Preston North End defender and a loanee. A couple of players are ageing, we've hit a fatigue brick wall and all of that has culminated in a deteriorating season.

I bet City are ruing not getting rid of Pep last season, eh? Some fans are gobshites.
 
Modo said:
But, while we were solely focusing on one or two competitions, they were doing the business in everything else as well.
Click to expand...

Are you aware of the enormously slanted playing field that we're faced with, when discussing respective financial recourses at both clubs..? Of the differences between their net spend over the past 5 years, and ours? That their fucking bench last week cost upwards of 360m...

I don't understand why people act as if all things are equal when it comes to comparing us and city. Or chavski. Or the scum, for that matter. We DO NOT spend money like they do. We don't live in the same financial world as them.

One things that's been lost on so many people as a result of our two seasons of relentless near-perfection, is the fact that what we achieved, first in pushing city so close and then in actually beating them, was utterly fucking remarkable, when you consider the net spend of the two squads...

Jurgen has worked fucking miracles in making us this successful in the first place - This city side should win every trophy, every year, FFS. Anybody claiming that he's been found out this season (or any other such nonsense) as if ANY of the circumstances we're dealing with have been mirrored for ANY of our rivals, have completely lost sight of that fact.

Nobody out there could compete for a title, maybe even a top 4 place, if they had to face the shit that's come our way this season... 6 or more of our squad has been missing, unavailable for selection for more than two thirds of our entire season. Read that again. Say it out loud. It's fucking laughable.
 
mark1975 said:
Why are people even entertaining shite like this? Do we have to put up with idiots looking for something deeper rooted than the blatantly obvious?

"Klopp's been found out", "Klopp's reaching the same point he did at Dortmund".

No, we've had crippling injuries and are stuck between playing midfielders or Championship standard defenders, key players haven't had a rest, we lack depth, our CL and Premiership winning side was backed amidst just about the worst defensive crisis by the club spending big on a Preston North End defender and a loanee. A couple of players are ageing, we've hit a fatigue brick wall and all of that has culminated in a deteriorating season.

I bet City are ruing not getting rid of Pep last season, eh? Some fans are gobshites.
Click to expand...
Fantastic post. Its like watching lemmings.
 
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