• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

UK General Election 24/25

I get the feeling this 20bn is a number Reeves can hide behind while she turns into George Osborne. It sounds big and will freak people out, but is less than 2% of the govt budget. I mean a couple of points swing in interest rates would cause a bigger headache, and there must be contingency for that.

I can't see anything helping us out of this mess other than investing in infrastructure projects. If that's off the table nothing is improving any time soon. We've had fourteen years of austerity, it failed, it will continue to do so.
It’s been quoted she’s shelving some projects, like a tunnel under Stonehenge, and removing unnecessary consultants in government which I like because the ones I’ve dealt with are thick as pig shit.

Revolutionising inheritance and capital gains taxes would plug a fair chuck of that.
 
Having a smoother trading relationship with the EU would also improve the economy too.

There’s loads which can be done. Mostly undoing all that shite the Tories rolled out over the last decade and a half.
 
There is nothing more this country can do to scrimp and save. Every public organisation is pretty much at breaking point as far as I understand.

Not all infrastructure projects are worthwhile and I don't know enough (read: anything) about the ones supposedly cancelled, so can't comment too much.

This country does need to some genuine investment and forward thinking beyond "tax the rich" though. It's an important start (as long as I'm not included in their definition of rich, ha) but can't really stop there.
 
If Labour use this as an excuse to scrap dumb projects then I totally get it. Then they invest it somewhere smarter. Depends what it is obv
 
I get the feeling this 20bn is a number Reeves can hide behind while she turns into George Osborne. It sounds big and will freak people out, but is less than 2% of the govt budget. I mean a couple of points swing in interest rates would cause a bigger headache, and there must be contingency for that.

I can't see anything helping us out of this mess other than investing in infrastructure projects. If that's off the table nothing is improving any time soon. We've had fourteen years of austerity, it failed, it will continue to do so.

Increasing national insurance by 1p back to its original levels may help plug about 25% of the gap if what I read was correct.
 
Increasing national insurance by 1p back to its original levels may help plug about 25% of the gap if what I read was correct.
It’s clear to me they want to reverse the NI cuts the Tories pushed through to try and buy the election. They should do it
 
Those of a certain vintage will remember the "Tell Sid" ad campaign of the 1980s when the Thatcher government privatised British Gas and sold shares in the business to the public.

This most recent Tory government wanted to do the same thing with its remaining stake in NatWest. Veteran newsreader Sir Trevor McDonald had even been lined up to front the campaign.

But all that has now been binned by the Labour government, which said it would not be good "value for money".

It certainly hasn't been good value for money for NatWest itself: last week, it admitted it had spend £24m on the now-ditched campaign.
How the fuck can you spend TWENTYFOUR FUCKING MILLION on an ad campaign before actually running it
 
Some pensioners losing their Winter Fuel Payments. Including those who are immigrants in European countries, sorry ex-pats, as they cannot receive Pension Credit.

I’m not sure this will work as a saver, but it could force those lower income pensioners who qualify for Pension Credit but don’t claim to go out and claim it.
 
How the fuck can you spend TWENTYFOUR FUCKING MILLION on an ad campaign before actually running it
I'm sure a team of marketing types could burn through 24 million quids worth of Charlie in no time.
 
What's pretty clear is if you're borrowing money to pay for tax cuts you get in all kinds of shit and make a massive Truss of everything, because you have nothing to show for the deficit you create and it's throwing money away. But if you decide not to build anything you make an Osborne of everything and the country goes backwards for north of a decade and all the idiots blame everything going to shit on immigration and rubbish like brexit happens.

Clearly there's a happy medium. The yanks borrow boatloads more than us and they're flying. The Chinese deficit is 3.5x Gdp. Nothing to be proud of and probably a disaster on the horizon, but I'm not buying that we're in such a terrible place when we borrow less than the two biggest economies on the planet. Also our public spending is mid thirties of gdp, whereas across Europe it's mid forties.

I get you can't have European levels of public services with American levels of taxation, but it seems to me we need to attack policy from both angles. Higher taxes, more borrowing, get industry going again.
 
What's pretty clear is if you're borrowing money to pay for tax cuts you get in all kinds of shit and make a massive Truss of everything, because you have nothing to show for the deficit you create and it's throwing money away. But if you decide not to build anything you make an Osborne of everything and the country goes backwards for north of a decade and all the idiots blame everything going to shit on immigration and rubbish like brexit happens.

Clearly there's a happy medium. The yanks borrow boatloads more than us and they're flying. The Chinese deficit is 3.5x Gdp. Nothing to be proud of and probably a disaster on the horizon, but I'm not buying that we're in such a terrible place when we borrow less than the two biggest economies on the planet. Also our public spending is mid thirties of gdp, whereas across Europe it's mid forties.

I get you can't have European levels of public services with American levels of taxation, but it seems to me we need to attack policy from both angles. Higher taxes, more borrowing, get industry going again.

Indeed, we are fairly middling in terms of government debt and spending. Check out the IFS report https://ifs.org.uk/articles/spending-much-other-countries-taxing-less-unlikely-be-sustainable if you're a nerd.

The key question is what you do to improve strategic spending decisions. I think Net Zero commitments are an error and the fact we have 9 million 'economically inactive' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business...ion people,shortages affecting the UK economy. is a cause for concern - we have to increase the number of active participants.
 
The timeline for net zero might be ambitious but it's probably best to go for it now as opposed to further down the line. A few reasons, one main on is that solar power and battery storage are both becoming cheaper every month. Solar is already the cheapest source of 'leccy. They'll get cheaper as time goes on whereas all the easy gas and oil have been extracted so they're just going to get more expensive. It's also a good time to try and develop the next big thing (Oxford seem to be doing quite well with their new solar panels) and create an industry out of it. Morocco are doing it, Australia are starting to do it...

What they should do is make sure every new build is fitted with solar panels. I'm sure there are plenty of suitable buildings already there that could solar panels fitted. Imagine if all the schools, churches, stadia, supermarkets etc all were covered in panels?

To paraphrase the fugitive: What I want from each and every one of you is a solar panel on every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse.
 
Supermarkets and warehouses seem like a sensible approach but most don’t have correct structural support to accommodate solar panels. Not all though, the Aldi by mine I think is getting panels on top to reduce their energy usage.

I think Labour are going to push through changes to make it easier to sell properties with solar on the roof. They will also re-start their proposals from 2010 which were scrapped by the tories which included increasing energy efficiencies on new build properties.
 
Supermarkets and warehouses seem like a sensible approach but most don’t have correct structural support to accommodate solar panels. Not all though, the Aldi by mine I think is getting panels on top to reduce their energy usage.

I think Labour are going to push through changes to make it easier to sell properties with solar on the roof. They will also re-start their proposals from 2010 which were scrapped by the tories which included increasing energy efficiencies on new build properties.
I think, from what I've understood anyway, that here the reason why the supermarkets don't do it is because most of the buildings are rented. But I really don't understand why that stops them as they would make the money back on savings for the leccy and as well as aircon savings as the solar panels create shade and help keep the building cooler.

I've become a bit obsessed with renewable energy the past year or so. Some of the stuff hitting the markets is crazy. Solar tiles that come in a variety of colours, solar cladding that can be attached to the outside of the building, cheaper ways of building turbines. Even geothermal is becoming much cheaper now, thanks to lasers developed for nuclear fusion, and could be viable in many more places. It would be mad to not keep going towards net zero now that all these developments are happening.
 
Ending universal winter fuel payments is perfectly reasonable. Like any state support, it should only go to those who need it.

However, the terms of this reduction are pretty narrow, especially when you consider how volatile energy prices can be. I suspect there will be some change on this when the winter rolls around.

Regarding the black hole in the finances, it's clearly not true that the government only found out about the economy when they took over. The books aren't just in a Downing Street cupboard. They are managed by huge departments. Opposition parties have access to everything before the election in order to have a smooth handover.

That said, these are not the first govt to make claims like this and won't be the last.

On tax, it will be interesting to see what they do. I don't think the govt will change National Insurance or income tax. They won't do a lot on VAT, beyond a bit of targeting such as the school fees (which I personally don't think will work as well as they think, by the way, but we shall see).

It's going to be Inheritance Tax, Capital Gains Tax and Pension Tax Relief for starters.

I guess that having the same levels of CGT as income tax is an obvious one, as is restricting Pension Tax Relief.

There are various things that could happen on Inheritance Tax, beyond simply raising the rate or lowering the threshold (which is unlikely really). I'd guess it is one of the most avoided taxes in terms of proportion, as it's easy to avoid if you have the benefit of time. I would take a guess that there are already people today looking into giving away money.

Finally, on big projects, the ones that have had the chop are most probably ones that didn't have enough private investment. The ones that remain on the table have potential for private investment in their plans. For that reason we may not see big business tax getting hammered.
 
They definitely won’t change income tax or VAT rates but may chop around some reliefs. Capping pension relief at 20% seems to be what’s reported in the news. There’s scope to remove some other reliefs too.

CGT will see an increase in the rate but I wonder if they’ll push back up the allowance.

Inheritance Tax will see some changes and now is probably the right time to push them through. I agree thresholds won’t change, but again there is potential to look at reliefs. It will be wise to encourage those with cash to spend it whilst living and get that money working through the economy. Assets will be trickier but they may just fiddle with reliefs like business and agriculture reliefs.
 
They do need to be a bit careful though. I mean, they have a lot of MPs in places where they don't usually have MPs. Those MPs have pretty tiny majorities. Taking the residents' money and building on their green areas may not go down very well, although I guess that they figure they have a good few years to make up for it.
 
Absolutely. That’s why I think they’ll just chop round the edges of the tax regimes. Most won’t feel it and if they can grow the economy with minimal impact on tax payers most will feel better off and see things as rosier.
 
Crikey, ok let me amend that. Cos that’s totally different.

If your mortgage is crippling then your first thought is probably not to spend more

In fact, just in case I’m being misunderstood. If you have ( fill in huge debt here) then your first thought is probably not spend more

Just to be extra clear the Tories shouldn’t have tossed in last minute tax cuts which we can’t afford. This isn’t a party thing. We need to pay down debt period
Thing is, the mortgage isn't crippling - we're reaching the tenuous limits of the analogy here, because comparing a nation with a household just really doesn't work - but if we continue to labour it, then what's the average mortgage these days?

5x salary?

Okay, in the past it was maybe 3x salary?

Currently our debt is ~100% of GDP (I think it's actually a little less right now, maybe ~90%) so that's like having a 1x mortgage - hardly 'crippling' and to put into perspective, I think the worst ever national debt on record was post-WW2 when it went to around 250% of GDP.

Bearing in mind that was the time when - rather than tightening the nation's belt and cutting back (mostly - there was still rationing and some austerity) we created the NHS, created the welfare state and embarked on a programme of housebuilding the likes of which has never been seen since.

We were more indebted than we'd ever been before or since (on record, which I think goes back to the mid-1700s or something) and yet we went out and spent like it was going out of fashion, and the country was fine.

In fact, it was thanks to that period that we now have many of the institutions we take for granted.

Because this is where the state vs household analogy completely breaks down...a country borrowing money generally (if it's not doing dumbfuck stuff like using it to subsidise tax breaks, secret handshake deals that shaft the nation or bail out rich cunty mates) creates economic activity as a result.

Speculate to accumulate you could call it.

In that sense it's perhaps more akin to a business loan - but one that is at a ridiculously low interest rate and over a ridiculously long period, because bond yields are often over 30 years and at really low rates because as a sovereign nation we're seen as a sure thing.

If the government acts in the same way as the households and tightens its belt, at the same as the households, then we're totally stuffed, because nobody is spending any money, demand dies and economic activity grinds to a halt.

This is hardly revolutionary stuff, it was the basic economic model (Keynesian economics) that sufficed from the 1930s through to the 1970s, when stagflation (stagnant growth but high inflation) came along and it was decided we needed to throw it out.

That's when our current model (Monetarism) came into play, where they decided fuck that investing in the country and building stuff shit, let's just control the money supply instead!

Bizarrely, we're back to stagflation again, and yet nobody seems to be suggesting that our entire economic model is fucked and doesn't work.

I guess the whole "let's fuck the little guy and flog off the public assets to our mates while they fuck everyone in the arse" strategy is pretty popular with the people that actually count, and the people that don't are easy enough to convince that it's in their best interest...
 
Do we start another threat for right wing violence in UK.
Hartlepool latest city to have a bunch of randoms turn up to chuck bricks at mosques.
 
And Downing Street, where patriots are chucking flares at a statue of Churchill that they were 'defending' a few months back.
 
Back
Top Bottom