Wasn't that the thrust of Liz Truss's argument?
UK General Election 24/25
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Yep, policies should be there to promote having more children rather than the opposite.
Offering me £20 a week wont promote it to me to have more kids.
We do need a huge change in policies to change the line of there’s no way I can afford to have kids in this environment. I wouldn’t have more kids because a huge chunk of wages would be handed straight over to a nursery to support the ability to still work. Why bother working when childcare costs a grand a month? Then there is the cost of absolutely everything else at the moment.
We do need a huge change in policies to change the line of there’s no way I can afford to have kids in this environment. I wouldn’t have more kids because a huge chunk of wages would be handed straight over to a nursery to support the ability to still work. Why bother working when childcare costs a grand a month? Then there is the cost of absolutely everything else at the moment.
Aye. Also for renters I can't realistically have kids til I'm like 35 because it takes so long to buy a house. It's quite a global issue though.
Read a while back how russia tried this and failed miserably in eastern russia.
Europe's child per couple stands at what?
Definitely not a global issue ...
Western issue?
Not just the west ... China, Russia, Japan (though I guess that's west?)
Yeah when I say global I mean many places round the world. Not like it's 100% of the world but it's a distributed issue
It’s price gouging by major corporations. They are squeezing the lower and middle classes more than government.
No amount of money would persuade me to have another child.
The Greek government have introduced some sort of third child allowance, but things are so expensive it won't make a difference. The prices in the supermarkets here are comparable to the UK but the average wage is only about 14k a year. Baby products are more expensive here than the UK. Also, most people live in apartments and they don't really have the space for more than two kids.
I've been back and forth to Greece since 05, and been living here since 08. Even when I was a student most of my Greek classmates only had one sibling, whereas my Irish classamtes usually had two or three siblings. So from what I've seen this has been on the cards a while. It's really unusal here for a family to have 3 or more kids, I know and Irish guy with four kids who worked in the embassy here and when they went places they could hear the Greeks commenting to each other that this family had four children.
No idea for all of Europe but Greece and Italy are already quite low and I think they've already started losing population.
The Greek government have introduced some sort of third child allowance, but things are so expensive it won't make a difference. The prices in the supermarkets here are comparable to the UK but the average wage is only about 14k a year. Baby products are more expensive here than the UK. Also, most people live in apartments and they don't really have the space for more than two kids.
I've been back and forth to Greece since 05, and been living here since 08. Even when I was a student most of my Greek classmates only had one sibling, whereas my Irish classamtes usually had two or three siblings. So from what I've seen this has been on the cards a while. It's really unusal here for a family to have 3 or more kids, I know and Irish guy with four kids who worked in the embassy here and when they went places they could hear the Greeks commenting to each other that this family had four children.
See, it's all about growth. stupid, sexy growth.
So where life is cheaper there are bigger families in general? The middle class in the US still has decent size families ... it's definitely one of the drivers but one of a few imo.
Our parents and grandparents got married at what he's on average? Had kids when?
Does that seem "normal" today? That's part of the change ... perhaps an interesting poll question on the site ... when you had kids ... how many ... why did you stop etc ... obviously mark is excluded from the survey
Italy has had a negative birth rate for ages ... that's why they have passport laws to bump up their "citizen" count
Greece would have also had a negative population rate for ages but they allowed more Albanian people to immigrate. They were doing the jobs the average Greek no longer wanted to do but now they've all had kids who grew up in Greece and they're also not wanting to do those jobs anymore...
I would guess where prices were cheaper there are larger families.
Looking at the situation now, why would you have kids? Housing is a greater % of income. So is fuel. Other basics like food and clothing. That’s going to have knock on to the wider economy as there is less spare cash to spend on “luxuries”.
That’s why there is a perceived drop in people having kids.
Am I misreading you here (and if so, sorry!), but you're calling kids "luxuries"?
I work in a niche industry - *many* of my co-workers are very very well off ... like houses where they live, vacation homes etc ... I can think of one that has more than 2 kids ... I'm not 100% sure it's only money - though definitely a factor, I think part of it is what we prioritize etc ...
I mean luxuries are things outside the basics to survive. My mortgage being £500 higher than it was years ago (though that was an abnormal time) be coupled with fuel going up, water, weekly food shop the same with stagnant wages means I have less money to put into the economy through different uses of my cash.
If I’m paying out for all those and have little left why on earth would I be contemplating having a kid?
If I’m paying out for all those and have little left why on earth would I be contemplating having a kid?
Understand your position ... I tend to worry about that, and it caused wife and I lots of friction when we had our last kid.
However, as I said, I think you'll find there is a huge chunk of people - who unlike us aren't as stressed by the increase in cost of living due to being more well off - who also aren't contemplating having 'large families' ... in the past, that wasn't as common ... so while I think money *definitely* plays a part in it, it's not the only factor creating these issues for 'the west'.
For what it's worth, I've two kids and we're doing alright for ourselves. I earn more than the average Greek wage and Mrs Athens earns quite a bit more than the average Greek wage.
There's no fucking way I could be persuaded to have another child, I've two and that's plenty. Two fucking lazy parasites.
There's no fucking way I could be persuaded to have another child, I've two and that's plenty. Two fucking lazy parasites.
HA HA - I bet you could be convinced. My good friend had 2, was happy and the wife said you get PS5, I Get #3 and ... well ...
No way. No chance. Zilch! I'm 44 at the moment, if the missus got pregnant now I'd be 45 when the baby's born. Fuck that shit.
Let's be honest, if she says "listen Ginger, we're having another one" - you'd respond, "Yes ma'am" and be a wonderful dad for 3 munchkins ... It's not up to you !
Nope. No chance. Right now number one is crying because his sister is playing on the nintendo and he wanted to. Fuck that shit.
Yup, that's definitely a big driving factor within the West imo.
I sense some concern ...
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