We need to talk about Keita..

[FoxForceFive]

Hmm, would he be that cocksure? Coming into a Klopp team? He may have been cock of the walk at Leipzig or wherever, but his performances - and general demeanour - at Liverpool seem to be of someone crippled by self-doubt and shyness, rather than an arrogant "watch me, I'm the boss" type of Pogba-style bollocks.

He apparently watched us for a the full year before coming.

I think that could be a huge part of the problem. He would have been imagining how he could slot in for us & what he could do.

Then he gets here, with all those preconceived ideas, only to have Klopp say "No, what are doing? You need to run here when he has the ball, move there when they have the ball, pick up that player if the ball is there, stay in this area if the ball is here".

Klopp & Pep constantly train the players based on a grid system, whilst both sides look fluid & flexible, it's all built upon them knowing where everyone else will (or more accurately should) be at every moment. This is the reason you can see our players making 'blind' passes successfully so often compared to other sides.

It's arguably much harder for a 'box to box' player like Keita & Shaq to adjust to that, just as it would be to imagine Gerrard playing in it (I wonder if Klopp would have Gerrard as a right forward for that reason?).

Tbh I'm not really that arsed why, just that those glimpses of class have made way to a much more consistent performance with those glimpses thrown in, & I have little doubt that he'll improve.

 

[tomasjj]

African Allen is starting to show quality. That's all I am concerned about.

 

[Mamma Mia]

He will be a Black Badge of a player for us, that's for certain.

 

[Fabio]

Meet Joe Black

 

[Dreambeliever]

See, if you were capable of criticising the guy in a fair and balanced way you'd have said "...will not change the fact" etc. What you actually said was "never" and that gives you away, because it betrays the fact that you've written him off once and for all, which is frankly ridiculous.

No I haven’t. He could become a world beater and if he does it will still never change the fact he was shit from Aug to Feb.

 

[Dreambeliever]

But he hasn't been complete shite has he?

In my opinion:

He's been shite (0-3/10) in some games:
West Ham (A) - 1st half
Wolves (A) - both FA cup and league
Chelsea (H) - league cup (I didn't watch the game, but the one highlight I saw of Hazard twisting him and Moreno inside out, so I'll guess he was shite)

Average or below (4-5/10) in some games:
Brighton (H)
City (H)
Leicester (H) - didn't watch this game, but reports wasn't glowing.

Just above "Average" (6-7/10) in some games;
Bournemouth (A)
Spurs (A)
West Ham (A) - 2nd half
Palace (A)
Palace (H)
United (H)

And very good (7.5-8/10) in a few:
West Ham (H)
Burnley (A)
Bournemouth (H)

Unbelievable games (8.5-10/10):
None. So far.

Now I know you argued about his status as a "young player", and I know you in football terms is now "16-21" ever since Rooney. But in life terms, anything under "25" in my opinion is young. Especially when you're coming into a new country, with a new language, don't have a family, no visible partner/GF, and you're playing for a big club. Of course, it's going to take a while to feel settled. Some players do it quicker than others. Some don't. Some never do.

But from what I've seen, there is talent in Keita that suggests he will make the right steps and improve us, much like the Ox did and much like Gini currently.

I guess I judge him more harshly as I expected a world beater which isn’t exactly weird when we paid what we did.

 

[Mersey86]

He apparently watched us for a the full year before coming.

I think that could be a huge part of the problem. He would have been imagining how he could slot in for us & what he could do.

Then he gets here, with all those preconceived ideas, only to have Klopp say "No, what are doing? You need to run here when he has the ball, move there when they have the ball, pick up that player if the ball is there, stay in this area if the ball is here".

Klopp & Pep constantly train the players based on a grid system, whilst both sides look fluid & flexible, it's all built upon them knowing where everyone else will (or more accurately should) be at every moment. This is the reason you can see our players making 'blind' passes successfully so often compared to other sides.

It's arguably much harder for a 'box to box' player like Keita & Shaq to adjust to that, just as it would be to imagine Gerrard playing in it (I wonder if Klopp would have Gerrard as a right forward for that reason?).

Tbh I'm not really that arsed why, just that those glimpses of class have made way to a much more consistent performance with those glimpses thrown in, & I have little doubt that he'll improve.

Very interesting post. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[bluebell]

The Watford game proves we have other players who are effective in the starting 11. Kieta this season at best is squad player.

 

[Judge Jules]

That's a strangely timed comment, coming as it does when Keita is - however slowly - starting to show some improved form.

 

[Frogfish]

That's a strangely timed comment, coming as it does when Keita is - however slowly - starting to show some improved form.

And that he is indeed a squad player !

 

[Dreambeliever]

He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the startIng 11 so far

 

[doctor_mac]

I still believe he's going to be a boss player for us. But now isn't his time.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I still believe he's going to be a boss player for us. But now isn't his time.

He has the potential for the hype, the wait, what we needed and what we paid he’s been a massive let down.

Hopefully next year he can be everything we hoped for.

 

[tombrown]

He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the startIng 11 so far

And not did Fabinho ... until he was.

 

[Dreambeliever]

And not did Fabinho ... until he was.

He cut his teeth against a very poor side in a dead rubber.

We don’t have any of those left this year. He’s had enough chances this season. Barring injury or conjestion he can wait for next season.

 

[rurikbird]

He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the startIng 11 so far

Why not? He was one of the best players on the pitch in the last game he started. Everyone was saying that the midfield 3 of Fabinho-Keita-Gini is possibly the most balanced one we've seen this season.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Why not? He was one of the best players on the pitch in the last game he started. Everyone was saying that the midfield 3 of Fabinho-Keita-Gini is possibly the most balanced one we've seen this season.

Cheers rurik, I was about to type out almost the same thing, only a bit more sweary.

Dreamy, you're either trolling, or you're fucking deluded.

Keita will either start or play some part tomorrow, & his last performance proved he has every right to do so.

So many people are clamouring for Chamberlain to start, but seem to be forgetting that Chamberlain had a run of games before he came good that he didn't impress in at all, & then had maybe five games where he drove forward & scored or assisted goals. That was it. Not some great long run of matches.

There is no reason Keita won't be equally as effective for us, but he has to play to do so.

 

[Athens]

There's no way Chambermaid can start, surely?

 

[FoxForceFive]

There's no way Chambermaid can start, surely?

Nah. I said yesterday, I can see Keita starting games & Chamberlain coming on for him. Both players operate in the same areas so makes sense as a way to bed Chamberlain back in over a few weeks, as the rest of the side will be set up that way already.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Cheers rurik, I was about to type out almost the same thing, only a bit more sweary.

Dreamy, you're either trolling, or you're fucking deluded.

Keita will either start or play some part tomorrow, & his last performance proved he has every right to do so.

So many people are clamouring for Chamberlain to start, but seem to be forgetting that Chamberlain had a run of games before he came good that he didn't impress in at all, & then had maybe five games where he drove forward & scored or assisted goals. That was it. Not some great long run of matches.

There is no reason Keita won't be equally as effective for us, but he has to play to do so.

He is nowhere fuckin near as good as Fabhino, Gini, Milner or Hendo so far

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

He is nowhere fuckin near as good as Fabhino, Gini, Milner or Hendo so far

It's fairly close between him and Henderson, they've both had more crap games than good. Fabinho, Gini and Milner are a level above.

 

[FoxForceFive]

He is nowhere fuckin near as good as Fabhino, Gini, Milner or Hendo so far

That isn't the point.

Milner can't play game after game, his level drops, & we need him fit. Gini is absolutely knackered & has barely been rested all season. Fabinho is starting every match he's fit for cos he's immense currently. Hendo was quality the other day but plays like a Fabinho-lite having watching Fabinho.

Crucially, Fabinho is the only one who tried to break down lines with runs out of the four, & he can't do it whilst he also owns the midfield & tackles every man & his dog.

You saw last season how important that running was when Chamberlain came into form for us, so it's in everyone's interest to keep playing Keita unless he stops the improvement he's shown each game.

 

[Munna micheal]

Thanks

 

[Oncy]

Is this Naby Keita?

 

[MomoWASright]

Naby, get an avatar will ya.

 

[Hansern]

There's no way Chambermaid can start, surely?

Echo saying he’ll start for the U-23s on either Monday or Friday next week.

 

[Bradley]

Echo saying he’ll start for the U-23s on either Monday or Friday next week.

He'll be shite until next season. Expect nothing.

 

[mwake]

Sometimes you buy a player and you see that they aren't any good, even on the technical level. With Keita I have no questions of him on the technical level, he has shown moments of his ability.

What seems to be happening is that:

1. He seems to get lost with regard to his role. Not knowing who he should be marking and not knowing the pressing triggers that take take time to instinctively learn.

2. Physically wise he needs to bulk up and get some more balance training. Too many times I've seen him fall over trying to tackle someone. He looked boss in Germany but maybe the mad cap speed of the premiership is a level above and this means he will need to improve his physicality.

3. Language - Klopp mentioned he was a bit quiet, maybe he has been a little overwhelmed by the move and has been made worse by his poor English so he needs to improve his English quickly over the next few months.


It sounds like a lot but I'm sure Liverpool will have a progression plan for their 60m investment. I expect a better Keita next season, as I said he's shown in flashes that he has the skills just needs time to integrate. It's not like the Sturridge situation where you are talking about a player who physically is incapable of playing the Klopp system. Keita had both the skills and the physicality.

 

[tombrown]

Good post, but I think "instinctively learn" is an oxymoron

 

[FoxForceFive]

That isn't the point.

Milner can't play game after game, his level drops, & we need him fit. Gini is absolutely knackered & has barely been rested all season. Fabinho is starting every match he's fit for cos he's immense currently. Hendo was quality the other day but plays like a Fabinho-lite having watching Fabinho.

Crucially, Fabinho is the only one who tried to break down lines with runs out of the four, & he can't do it whilst he also owns the midfield & tackles every man & his dog.

You saw last season how important that running was when Chamberlain came into form for us, so it's in everyone's interest to keep playing Keita unless he stops the improvement he's shown each game.

Poor form to quote oneself, but fuck it, I don't care. After watching us play on Sunday I'm even more convinced we need to use Keita in games & swap him out for Chamberlain toward the end of games when he's ready to get back playing again.