We need to talk about Keita..

[FoxForceFive]

I thought some of his stuff was really really good, and some of it piss poor. He seemed to get the ball a lot given to him, and give it straight back to whoever sent it, or pass it backwards/sideways. Not losing possession, but not exactly doing anything either. And then he sprinkled in a few moments of magic. He was guilty of jogging about with no urgency at times also. He was ok-good, but I did think the other 2 midfielders were standout better than him. But it was a good day at the office for them.

That 'giving it back to whoever sent it, & passing it sideways & backwards' is exactly what we want him to do.

We have Hendo, & Gini, both normally play that role in the side. Hendo was out, Gini was playing further up for much of the match, therefore that was exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

I hear so many people complaining about sideways & backwards passing like we should continually be passing the ball forwards. It's not possible, cos you'd run out of fucking pitch.

We play a high possession game. To have possession you have to pass it. Therefore we quite literally have to pass it sideways & backwards a lot of the time.

Doing so means the opposition have to push forwards to try to win it back, by passing it continually you tempt them to attempt to win it & it creates space. When they don't, it also creates chances because they expect a sideways or backwards pass & occasionally lose concentration & don't block the passing lane they should be covering, & we play a clever pass through (see Keita's pass to Firmino that led to the goal).

It's the entire model around how we play this season!

If we weren't attacking so often & hadn't created umpteen chances I'd get the criticism, but we did, so it quite clearly wasn't a problem.

 

[kingjulian]

I feel like keita is on his way to be a Lucas style divisive presence for fans.

Soon, Some will believe a simple pass is the greatest build up ever made

Some will believe a misplaced pass proves he's the worst footballer ever and should die in a ditch.

YouTube highlights are fucking shite. The point of them is to show the good things.

I agree, but never in a million years a Lucas highlight of any length will have a pass like what Keita made for the Salah goal.

 

[MomoWASright]

Didn’t he make that one pass against Newcastle? Just that once. In a whole decade.

 

[rurikbird]

Klopp on Keita:

Liverpool’s midfield three of Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Naby Keïta impressed, with the summer signing from RB Leipzig producing one of his strongest games for the club. Keïta has started the past four matches, his longest sequence, and Klopp admitted a decision was taken to play the Guinea international into form.

The Liverpool manager said: “Hendo [Jordan Henderson] maybe could have played, Adam [Lallana]could have played again but Naby was pretty much one of the first on the team sheet for different reasons.

“This game was a big step. The second half against West Ham was a big step but nobody really realised it because nobody was happy with the game and nobody talked about this. Maybe people liked to talk more about the negative things from the first half with Naby. It was not good at West Ham, that’s no problem. We will probably see a couple of bad halves from Naby in the future. But it was clear the whole week the second half was really important to him. The position was clearer and clearer. There is still a lot to come because he is still adapting. Sometimes it takes longer, that’s how it is. People lose patience, that’s normal – but we don’t. This was obviously one of the best games he’s played.”

 

[Dreambeliever]

He may turn out to be a bang average player, who has great moments and shite moments

That's my worry.

I much rather there be a consensus

Surely the consensus is he’s been shite so far and a huge let down. The only argument is why? Some thing he’s just shit and won’t come good others have loads of reasons like adapting to a new league, team, language etc.

He’s easily been our worst midfielder this season so far

 

[Insignificance]

He’s easily been our worst midfielder this season so far

But I thought it was a good thing to make things look easy?

 

[Frogfish]

Sweet Lord. I clarified what I meant with my second paragraph.

To put into context. Ozil is world class when he 'touches' the ball. Off the ball.. he's lazy as fuck.

While not claiming Keita is like Ozil. He clearly isn't. My point is, you need to watch a whole game. Not just 'all touches'.

So no I tend to ignore those compilations. And telling people who went to a match to watch such compilations seems a bit much.

It's just my opinion.

Sweet Lord. It's NOT a compilation of highlights - we're talking about one video with his every touch, keep on point. bangs head against the wall

 

[Frogfish]

Surely the consensus is he’s been shite so far and a huge let down. The only argument is why? Some thing he’s just shit and won’t come good others have loads of reasons like adapting to a new league, team, language etc.

He’s easily been our worst midfielder this season so far

Yeah I probably agree with that but the issue is that people here only seem to remember the bad stuff, whenever he does anything good (2nd half at West Ham, a couple of games earlier this season and this whole game vs Bournemouth) that's totally disregarded by some with "he's been shite ever since we bought him" which clearly isn't true. However inconsistency (half to half or match to match) clearly is.

 

[Dreambeliever]

But I thought it was a good thing to make things look easy?

When did I say it wasn’t. By and large he’s been awful. Hopefully he turns it around but stating that is hardly eye opening.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Sweet Lord. It's NOT a compilation of highlights - we're talking about one video with his every touch, keep on point. bangs head against the wall

Lol, as if looking at every touch in a game is as good seeing a player live. Even the old player cam used to do my head in as it was too close to the player. You need to be able too see the whole pitch and other players in relation to the player, what they do between touches, their movement to receive the ball, their movement to not receive it, to make space for others. Their communication, awareness, reaction. All things you don’t see through a video of all their touches as you at the mercy of the camera man. You must not go to many live aports games as you can pick up so much more being there than on TV.

Suarez was a good example of this and I’ve heard some match goers talk about VVD too in terms of communication off camera.

Roy Keane when I watched him for Ireland was amazing too.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yeah I probably agree with that but the issue is that people here only seem to remember the bad stuff, whenever he does anything good (2nd half at West Ham, a couple of games earlier this season and this whole game vs Bournemouth) that's totally disregarded by some with "he's been shite ever since we bought him" which clearly isn't true. However inconsistency (half to half or match to match) clearly is.

When you pay 60m, wait a year and are promised a box to box jizz fest people will be highly critical when you aren’t adding an instant improvement. As for forgetting the good, nobody does that but when the bad outweighs the good by prob 5-1 it’s easy for people to simplify it to he’s shite as opposed to he’s shite except that one half or that one pass.

Great players are brilliant most of the time not a couple of times in 6 months.

Hopefully he’ll turn it around but I can completely see why so many are so frustrated. This isn’t a Lucas type signing of youth with potential this was supposed to be the missing link and one of the most sought after players in Europe.

He’s stunk the place out so far by an odd glimpse.

Zero goals is incredible considering the chances he’s had and the number of games

 

[Halmeister]

I think he'll be fine.

 

[manwithnoname]

Didn’t he make that one pass against Newcastle? Just that once. In a whole decade.

He did. It was beautiful. Think we won 5-1 or something.

He also missed from a yard out.

 

[ILD]

That pass for Newcastle was great. Also he took the shot in the Derby that resulted in Kuyt scoring a last min penalty.

#LucasMoments

 

[The Nomad]

Sweet Lord. It's NOT a compilation of highlights - we're talking about one video with his every touch, keep on point. bangs head against the wall

Ha ha ha. You obviously don't get it.

A compilation is a cut of the game.
You don't see the whole picture.
You don't see that pass he should have intercepted.
Or that header he missed
Or that tackle he shirked
Or that player he should have marked.

Because he didn't touch it.

I'm not saying he did any of those things above vs Bournemouth, I'm illustrating my point.

Therefore. Compilations of every touch are a form of highlighting a player. It makes them look better. Unless they give the ball away.

Ergo highlights.

I'm NOT saying it's highlights like MOTD. Or compilation as in every touch from different games. Or a series of videos from one or more games.

Read what I and others are saying.

 

[Fabio]

Ha ha ha. You obviously don't get it.

A compilation is a cut of the game.
You don't see the whole picture.
You don't see that pass he should have intercepted.
Or that header he missed
Or that tackle he shirked
Or that player he should have marked.

Because he didn't touch it.

I'm not saying he did any of those things above vs Bournemouth, I'm illustrating my point.

Therefore. Compilations of every touch are a form of highlighting a player. It makes them look better. Unless they give the ball away.

Ergo highlights.

I'm NOT saying it's highlights like MOTD. Or compilation as in every touch from different games. Or a series of videos from one or more games.

Read what I and others are saying.

I'll provide pictorial evidence


To make a clearer point I will provide a similie. Behold, a butterface.

Now, neck down (YouTube touch videos), yes please. Add in the head (movement off the ball/going the game), no thank you ma'am

 

[Fabio]

I cannot make this point any clearer

 

[mark1975]

I cannot make this point any clearer

Hahaha...

Quite though. Which is what does my fucking head in at times with some posters, it's the same ones who bring up selective stats and highlight reels to prove their point beyond any doubt. Meanwhile someone who was actually at the game (shite seats or not) and actually followed the movements of various players with and without the ball can say with some validity and perspective, how much of a good game they had, how workman like the performance was, what their movement was like on and off the ball, etc. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp, we've been labouring this point for weeks. We're not being cunts to Keita, we're saying he hasn't been very good so far, regardless of a great pass in one game, or an improved 45 minutes in another. He was great at the weekend, relatively speaking, compared to previous performances and was alot move involved. Let's hope he can push on from here, but I don't think it's unfair to point out that Bournemouth were poor and we'll face sterner tests where he really will have to turn up. Promising performance, but one swallow doesn't make a summer etc, well done for the weekend, now do it again.

 

[Brizzle]

Not in relation to this point as i'm choosing not to follow the Frog vs Nomad debate, but you can't always equate being at the game with 'most valid opinion' although I would agree that you can absolutely equate watching full 90 in detail vs watching selected highlights / clips for 'opinion based on all information' for reasons Nomad has suggested e.g. the times where a play should have made a touch, should have run to get involved etc etc.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I cannot make this point any clearer

I need a paper bag please sir.

 

[Woland]

There were a couple of guys behind me who were going on about how useless and shit Keita was when he missed that sitter at the end, so I had to tell them it was his wicked pass for Frim that set up the third, so you don't always get the best perspective at the match. I was really hoping he would be great on Saturday. Liam Neeson alert but when Gini pressured their keeper and he gave it to their left back, who was in turn pressured by someone into hoofing it out to much cheering, I was hoping the dude I was looking at was Keita, but as he turned I could see a number 10, not an 8. I think everyone is willing him to be a good player - having a go at him for being sub par is fair enough when he has been. And he has been.

 

[Judge Jules]

When you pay 60m, wait a year and are promised a box to box jizz fest people will be highly critical when you aren’t adding an instant improvement. As for forgetting the good, nobody does that but when the bad outweighs the good by prob 5-1 it’s easy for people to simplify it to he’s shite as opposed to he’s shite except that one half or that one pass.

Great players are brilliant most of the time not a couple of times in 6 months.

Hopefully he’ll turn it around but I can completely see why so many are so frustrated. This isn’t a Lucas type signing of youth with potential this was supposed to be the missing link and one of the most sought after players in Europe.

He’s stunk the place out so far by an odd glimpse.

Zero goals is incredible considering the chances he’s had and the number of games

The problem with the above, Pat, is that you yourself are the prime example on this forum of that oversimplifying tendency that you describe in your first para.above. In common with your all too familiar insistence on seeing the cloud in every silver lining where LFC is concerned, you've been on Keita's case since before he even played his first game. This post of yours is a case in point. Not only do you sail blindly past the fact that this IS a signing of youth with potential (check out Keita's age sometime), albeit huge potential, your unnecessarily emotive last two lines show - as too many of your previous posts have done - that you've just plain got it in for the guy, a bit like Modo's various player vendettas. The quickest way to ruin a good case is by overstating it and, as others have already said, when Keita's critics go OTT - with you leading from the front - the other point of view tends to get over-emphasised in response, so the whole discussion suffers.

 

[manwithnoname]

The problem with the above, Pat, is that you yourself are the prime example on this forum of that oversimplifying tendency that you describe in your first para.above. In common with your all too familiar insistence on seeing the cloud in every silver lining where LFC is concerned, you've been on Keita's case since before he even played his first game. This post of yours is a case in point. Not only do you sail blindly past the fact that this IS a signing of youth with potential (check out Keita's age sometime), albeit huge potential, your unnecessarily emotive last two lines show - as too many of your previous posts have done - that you've just plain got it in for the guy, a bit like Modo's various player vendettas. The quickest way to ruin a good case is by overstating it and, as others have already said, when Keita's critics go OTT - with you leading from the front - the other point of view tends to get over-emphasised in response, so the whole discussion suffers.

Youth with potential? He's 24.

 

[HC]

Youth with potential? He's 24.

Maybe

 

[Woland]

 

[Judge Jules]

Youth with potential? He's 24.

True, but (a) that still makes him a young player in my book and (b) his 24th birthday was only yesterday in any case.

 

[ibromurph]

Hopefully he bangs in his first goal at OT, we win, and he puts in a big performance, where he cripples Herrera. No better way to gain cult hero status.

 

[dogboy]

What's the Aphex Twin video she appears in?

 

[MomoWASright]

Window licker.

 

[Dreambeliever]

The problem with the above, Pat, is that you yourself are the prime example on this forum of that oversimplifying tendency that you describe in your first para.above. In common with your all too familiar insistence on seeing the cloud in every silver lining where LFC is concerned, you've been on Keita's case since before he even played his first game. This post of yours is a case in point. Not only do you sail blindly past the fact that this IS a signing of youth with potential (check out Keita's age sometime), albeit huge potential, your unnecessarily emotive last two lines show - as too many of your previous posts have done - that you've just plain got it in for the guy, a bit like Modo's various player vendettas. The quickest way to ruin a good case is by overstating it and, as others have already said, when Keita's critics go OTT - with you leading from the front - the other point of view tends to get over-emphasised in response, so the whole discussion suffers.

Since when is 23 youth?

Lucas signed at 20 btw