I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
Your time is up Diego?
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[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=39457.msg1075276#msg1075276 date=1269315441]
He'll become bigger, stronger, faster. He'll be able to do all the things he does now, but faster. And more. He may not grow much more talent-wise, but his body is far from completely mature yet.
[/quote]
Hmmm. I hope for the sake of football you're right because watching him is a delight, however I still kinda think he's in the process of peaking now and if anything, I'm concerned that his body will begin to let him down in the next couple of years. He's been playing a lot of football from a young age and already had a few hamstring injuries etc.
He'll become bigger, stronger, faster. He'll be able to do all the things he does now, but faster. And more. He may not grow much more talent-wise, but his body is far from completely mature yet.
[/quote]
Hmmm. I hope for the sake of football you're right because watching him is a delight, however I still kinda think he's in the process of peaking now and if anything, I'm concerned that his body will begin to let him down in the next couple of years. He's been playing a lot of football from a young age and already had a few hamstring injuries etc.
I always liked that story Lineker told of Maradonna standing on the spot booting the ball up as high as he could without moving from the spot again and again.
Apparently he and Chris Waddle tried it in training the next day and could only manage about 3 running all over the shop. He was from another planet.
Apparently he and Chris Waddle tried it in training the next day and could only manage about 3 running all over the shop. He was from another planet.
Isn't messi fucked long term from all the injections barca gave him as a kid, or did I make that up?
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39457.msg1075278#msg1075278 date=1269315778]
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Ha, he'll stay at Barca, a club worthy of his talents and a place he loves being - and who can blame him?
Incredible player. Better than Maradona? Not arsed. Never seen him play properly.
But make no mistake, Messi will be remembered alongside the very, very great players in years to come. And comparisons between these sorts of players is generally pretty pointless (although i notice that Messi and Maradona are remarkably similar in a lot of ways)
Incredible player. Better than Maradona? Not arsed. Never seen him play properly.
But make no mistake, Messi will be remembered alongside the very, very great players in years to come. And comparisons between these sorts of players is generally pretty pointless (although i notice that Messi and Maradona are remarkably similar in a lot of ways)
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=39457.msg1075303#msg1075303 date=1269331694]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39457.msg1075278#msg1075278 date=1269315778]
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
[/quote]
Aren't they allâ„¢ Jamie Carragher
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39457.msg1075278#msg1075278 date=1269315778]
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
[/quote]
Aren't they allâ„¢ Jamie Carragher
[quote author=peekay link=topic=39457.msg1075402#msg1075402 date=1269346559]
Unless he wins the world cup, he will not be considered in the same level as Maradona.
[/quote]
Possibly not but remember that those players who are always named when lists of the greatest players are compiled are not always World Cup winners.
Cruyff, Eusebio, Van Basten, Best, di Stefano, Platini - none of them ever won a World Cup.
Unless he wins the world cup, he will not be considered in the same level as Maradona.
[/quote]
Possibly not but remember that those players who are always named when lists of the greatest players are compiled are not always World Cup winners.
Cruyff, Eusebio, Van Basten, Best, di Stefano, Platini - none of them ever won a World Cup.
Yes because all body-types and shapes mature and change the same way over time, and always in a positive way.
Look at Owen, he was much quicker at 25 than he was at 22. Oh wait. No he wasn't.
How about Fowler, he was certainly faster and had a more mature body as he got older. No, wait, that's fucking bollocks too.
"Fucking bollocks" would appear to be the summary.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=39457.msg1075403#msg1075403 date=1269346807]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=39457.msg1075303#msg1075303 date=1269331694]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39457.msg1075278#msg1075278 date=1269315778]
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
[/quote]
Aren't they allâ„¢ Jamie Carragher
[/quote]
That comment manifests Carra's roots among the bitters. That's an Evertonian's spiel.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=39457.msg1075303#msg1075303 date=1269331694]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39457.msg1075278#msg1075278 date=1269315778]
I wonder if he will ever feel bored at Barca, like he has accomplished it all and, if so, where he would look to challenge himself. He has never really to my memory stated an interest in playing in England.
[/quote]
I'm sure I read somewhere he's a Liverpool fan since boyhood.
[/quote]
Aren't they allâ„¢ Jamie Carragher
[/quote]
That comment manifests Carra's roots among the bitters. That's an Evertonian's spiel.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=39457.msg1075405#msg1075405 date=1269348635]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=39457.msg1075402#msg1075402 date=1269346559]
Unless he wins the world cup, he will not be considered in the same level as Maradona.
[/quote]
Possibly not but remember that those players who are always named when lists of the greatest players are compiled are not always World Cup winners.
Cruyff, Eusebio, Van Basten, Best, di Stefano, Platini - none of them ever won a World Cup.
[/quote]
I think that all the players you mentioned are considered slightly below Pele and Maradona because of that reason.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=39457.msg1075402#msg1075402 date=1269346559]
Unless he wins the world cup, he will not be considered in the same level as Maradona.
[/quote]
Possibly not but remember that those players who are always named when lists of the greatest players are compiled are not always World Cup winners.
Cruyff, Eusebio, Van Basten, Best, di Stefano, Platini - none of them ever won a World Cup.
[/quote]
I think that all the players you mentioned are considered slightly below Pele and Maradona because of that reason.
Not universally, I can assure you. The best player I've ever seen was Bestie, and I've seen Pele live as well. Never got to see Di Stefano but there are quite a few who did and would give him the crown.
IMO the trophy count is irrelevant to any attempt to differentiate between them as individuals - there are simply too many other factors involved. Should the fact that Best was from Norn Iron, hence never in with the ghost of a chance of winning the WC, affect matters? Of course not.
IMO the trophy count is irrelevant to any attempt to differentiate between them as individuals - there are simply too many other factors involved. Should the fact that Best was from Norn Iron, hence never in with the ghost of a chance of winning the WC, affect matters? Of course not.
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39457.msg1075205#msg1075205 date=1269293473]
Maradona was a Rooney type of figure, ferocious and very difficult to knock off the ball.
[/quote]
Messi doesn't get knocked off the ball anymore. He's incredibly strong. Freakishly so.
Maradona was a Rooney type of figure, ferocious and very difficult to knock off the ball.
[/quote]
Messi doesn't get knocked off the ball anymore. He's incredibly strong. Freakishly so.
Great article by Sid Owen of the Guardian which deals with the issue of this thread head one, a journalist who I really rate and who writes really well.
Man ... Superman ... Leo Messi
Barcelona's talisman is so sensationally good at the moment that comparisons with football's greatest players are wholly justified
Leo Messi
Leo Messi celebrates after scoring his sensational second goal against Real Zaragoza. Photograph: Denis Doyle/Getty Images
It's not big and it's not clever but sometimes swearing is the only thing that will do. Sometimes you've used up every other word and nothing else quite hits the spot. You've rummaged round the back of the sofa, rifled through the drawers, turned out your pockets and still come up empty. Pep Guardiola insisted that he was clean out of adjectives and frankly so was everyone else. Spain was suffering a severe shortage of superlatives last night. The Catalan newspaper Sport invited readers to send in headlines for what they had just witnessed and there were plenty of super, sensational and sublimes, some magic, magnificent and marvellouses, wows and wonderfuls, plus deities by the dozen, and even a Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, but still there was no way to really do it justice. No polite way anyway. Just wide eyes, a wider mouth and a simple: holy shit!
What they had witnessed would have been one of the most brilliant performances imaginable from Leo Messi but for one thing: you would never have imagined it. He was unbebloodylievable. The milk. The consecrated bread. The dog's dingly-danglies.
It was a performance that started off well, got better in the middle, and by the end was barely believable. One that left you feeling exhausted just watching it, full of ridiculously good touches. It got better and better and better and when you thought it couldn't get any better it got better again. One that went from Crikey to Bloody Hell to Oh my God to Now, you're really taking the mickey. Only Messi wasn't taking the mickey, he was just playing football – the way he plays football. The way no one else has played football. Maybe ever before.
• Messi is the best ever, proclaims Barça president
• Match report: Real Zaragoza 2-4 Barcelona
• YouTube: Watch Messi's hat-trick performance
• All of Sid Lowe's La Liga blogs in one place
"I'm not sure he's human," said the Zaragoza playmaker Ander Herrera of Messi's display in their 4-2 defeat. "Tonight, I saw Diego Maradona," declared the Real Zaragoza coach José Aurelio Gay, "but at more revs per minute. There are no words left to describe him – he is interplanetary. We could have beaten Barcelona but we could never have beaten Leo Messi. If we had scored four, he would have scored 12."
He didn't get 12, he got three. For his first trick, Messi headed Barcelona into the lead. For his second trick he won the ball near the halfway line, dashed through, the ball never leaving his foot, stepped round three challenges, left Matteo Contini on his backside, and hit a low shot into the net. And for his hat-trick, he curled in a beauty from the edge of the area. Then he produced a bit of barely plausible skill inside the Zaragoza penalty area, flicking over one man and stepping beyond another, before being pulled down for a penalty. It would have been his fourth only he got up, dusted himself off and handed the ball to Zlatan Ibrahimovic instead. "Well," Messi shrugged, "Zlatan needed it."
He certainly did. If Messi has scored the unscoreable, the Swede, who had scored only once this year, had missed the unmissable. No wonder everyone went weak at the knees. He's a genius – and so generous too! He'd done the truly impossible – scored three and made Ibrahimovic score too.
He was, insisted Carles Ruipérez in La Vanguardia, "Unbelievable. Unrivalled. Unrepeatable. Spectacular. Marvellous. Wonderful. Genial. Incredible." "Messi is the God of football," declared Sport. "Stratospheric. Magical. Divine. Generous. Extraordinary." "ET," ran the headline inside, "was born in Rosario and plays in Barcelona." "Brutal," added El Mundo Deportivo. On the inside, they were recalling the famous Ronaldo goal against Compostela – one so insultingly good it had Bobby Robson pacing back and forth on the touchline, head in hands muttering: "I don't believe it! I don't believe it!" and the Compostela players threatening to sue for damages. "Maradona + Ronaldo," ran the equation "= Messi". El PaÃs called him "infinity", while El Mundo reserved for him a "place amongst the greatest".
Speaking of the greatest, even Marca, the newspaper who decided to ignore Messi's brilliance against Stuttgart on Wednesday by splashing on the breaking news that Muhammad Ali is a legend, found a place for him on their cover. Near the bottom, but on the cover nonetheless, with the headline "Super Messi". "Maradona, here's your son," it said inside. AS too gave Messi big billing – just above a Rafa van der Vaart explaining that just because he controlled the ball with his hands it doesn't mean he handballed it. "Messi," said the paper, "is from another world!"
All of which might seem a bit over the top for a hat-trick against the side that conceded six against Real Madrid and lie just three points above the relegation zone. Late last night, on the ape-house shouting-fest that is Punto Pelota, Pedro Pablo San MartÃn turned on his fellow guests, accusing them of "popping Viagra", shouting: "Stop going on about him all the time! It's only Zaragoza!"
Only, it's not. And that is the point. It's not only Zaragoza, it's everyone else too. It's every game. For Barcelona, at least. One of the incredible things about Messi is how rarely he disappoints. In fact, it's tempting to conclude that he has made the ridiculous so routine that he doesn't get talked about as much as deserves; playing perfectly is hardly news. It was not just Zaragoza, it was the fact that Messi has now scored two La Liga hat-tricks in a row, after an astonishingly brilliant three against Valencia last week. It was the fact that, until he handed the ball to Ibrahimovic, he had scored Barcelona's last nine goals. It was the display against Stuttgart that prompted Christian Gross to admit: "Comparing him to Maradona is perfectly licit now." It was the eight in a week. The 11 in five games. The free-kick against AlmerÃa – so subtle, so stupidly soft you wonder if he was wearing slippers. And playing with a balloon. The 25 in the league already, the 34 in all competitions.
It's not just the goals either. When it comes to the inevitable and often tedious comparisons with Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the things that is often said about Messi is that he is not as complete. Earlier this season the pro-Real Madrid newspaper Marca asked the man who had just published a glossy, club-sponsored biography of Ronaldo to do a comparison of Ronaldo and Messi in the midst of its campaign to beatify the Portuguese – and get pictures of him with his top off on their cover as often as possible. Surprise, surprise, Ronaldo won. He scored higher than Messi in heading, speed, shooting, leadership, physical condition, and free-kicks and penalties, scoring the same in technique and passing.
It was not a new conclusion. In England too Ronaldo is invariably described as more complete than Messi – stronger, faster, bigger, more athletic. But aren't they all part of the same package, an obsession with physical strength? Isn't that a pretty incomplete reading of complete? Last season Messi scored twice as many Champions League goals with half as many shots. This season, Messi is the league's top scorer with 10 more than Ronaldo, has provided more assists than anyone else (Ronaldo is not in the top 20) and has completed more passes than any other attacker. He hasn't even taken any penalties.
Yes, they were acting like they were on Viagra. But, no, it wasn't just Zaragoza. It is everything Messi has done throughout his career. The 79 goals in 129 games. The two European Cups and three league titles. If he was not already the best player in the world in his first three seasons – 30 goals in 60 games – it's because of injury. Every season, he missed at least 10 matches. But when he played there were special moments. That unbelievable hat-trick against Real Madrid. That Getafe goal. The pair of destructions of Atlético Madrid. The naturalness with which he took over from Ronaldinho – every bit as much the messiah but not such a naughty boy.
You always felt he was just an injury-free season away from being the best. Last season he got it. Last season he got 38. The top scorer's award in the Champions League. The goal in the Champions League final. And the World Club Cup final. And the two in what was effectively the league final – the historic 6-2 against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu, when he was described as "Maradona, Cruyff, and Best rolled into one". As well as the Copa sublime hat-trick that knocked Atlético out of the Cup and saw the Vicente Calderón hand him a standing ovation.
It is everything Messi has done and how he has done it. It is the sheer stupidness of his talent, the ohmygoddidyoujustseewhathedid? about him. The fact that he gets hacked at and somehow keeps on running, that he'd be like a Weeble only he hardly ever even wobbles. That the ball, to use the old cliché, really does seem to be tied to his feet. He doesn't even seem to kick it most of the time: like a faithful dog, it just runs alongside him. That he's like the kid in the under-10s team that picks the ball up, runs rings round everyone and scores; that he is exactly the kid he was when he was a kid. That he goes from 0-60 in no time and from 60-0 again in even less – what was so stunning about his goal against Valencia last weekend was how suddenly he stopped, sending the defender screeching by like a cartoon character off a cliff.
It is that last night his president Joan Laporta announced that Messi is the best player in Barcelona's history – and it didn't sound completely ridiculous. Premature, yes. Exaggerated, probably. But not completely ridiculous. Yes, Messi has more to win in order to prove it – although he has already won more than George Best ever did and more European Cups than Diego Maradona. Yes, he still has to achieve things to make his case watertight, particularly with Argentina. But how could it be otherwise? After all, for all the sublime touches, the goals, the assists and the win-it-on-his-own performances, perhaps the most ridiculous thing of all is that Leo Messi is still only 22.
Man ... Superman ... Leo Messi
Barcelona's talisman is so sensationally good at the moment that comparisons with football's greatest players are wholly justified
Leo Messi
Leo Messi celebrates after scoring his sensational second goal against Real Zaragoza. Photograph: Denis Doyle/Getty Images
It's not big and it's not clever but sometimes swearing is the only thing that will do. Sometimes you've used up every other word and nothing else quite hits the spot. You've rummaged round the back of the sofa, rifled through the drawers, turned out your pockets and still come up empty. Pep Guardiola insisted that he was clean out of adjectives and frankly so was everyone else. Spain was suffering a severe shortage of superlatives last night. The Catalan newspaper Sport invited readers to send in headlines for what they had just witnessed and there were plenty of super, sensational and sublimes, some magic, magnificent and marvellouses, wows and wonderfuls, plus deities by the dozen, and even a Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, but still there was no way to really do it justice. No polite way anyway. Just wide eyes, a wider mouth and a simple: holy shit!
What they had witnessed would have been one of the most brilliant performances imaginable from Leo Messi but for one thing: you would never have imagined it. He was unbebloodylievable. The milk. The consecrated bread. The dog's dingly-danglies.
It was a performance that started off well, got better in the middle, and by the end was barely believable. One that left you feeling exhausted just watching it, full of ridiculously good touches. It got better and better and better and when you thought it couldn't get any better it got better again. One that went from Crikey to Bloody Hell to Oh my God to Now, you're really taking the mickey. Only Messi wasn't taking the mickey, he was just playing football – the way he plays football. The way no one else has played football. Maybe ever before.
• Messi is the best ever, proclaims Barça president
• Match report: Real Zaragoza 2-4 Barcelona
• YouTube: Watch Messi's hat-trick performance
• All of Sid Lowe's La Liga blogs in one place
"I'm not sure he's human," said the Zaragoza playmaker Ander Herrera of Messi's display in their 4-2 defeat. "Tonight, I saw Diego Maradona," declared the Real Zaragoza coach José Aurelio Gay, "but at more revs per minute. There are no words left to describe him – he is interplanetary. We could have beaten Barcelona but we could never have beaten Leo Messi. If we had scored four, he would have scored 12."
He didn't get 12, he got three. For his first trick, Messi headed Barcelona into the lead. For his second trick he won the ball near the halfway line, dashed through, the ball never leaving his foot, stepped round three challenges, left Matteo Contini on his backside, and hit a low shot into the net. And for his hat-trick, he curled in a beauty from the edge of the area. Then he produced a bit of barely plausible skill inside the Zaragoza penalty area, flicking over one man and stepping beyond another, before being pulled down for a penalty. It would have been his fourth only he got up, dusted himself off and handed the ball to Zlatan Ibrahimovic instead. "Well," Messi shrugged, "Zlatan needed it."
He certainly did. If Messi has scored the unscoreable, the Swede, who had scored only once this year, had missed the unmissable. No wonder everyone went weak at the knees. He's a genius – and so generous too! He'd done the truly impossible – scored three and made Ibrahimovic score too.
He was, insisted Carles Ruipérez in La Vanguardia, "Unbelievable. Unrivalled. Unrepeatable. Spectacular. Marvellous. Wonderful. Genial. Incredible." "Messi is the God of football," declared Sport. "Stratospheric. Magical. Divine. Generous. Extraordinary." "ET," ran the headline inside, "was born in Rosario and plays in Barcelona." "Brutal," added El Mundo Deportivo. On the inside, they were recalling the famous Ronaldo goal against Compostela – one so insultingly good it had Bobby Robson pacing back and forth on the touchline, head in hands muttering: "I don't believe it! I don't believe it!" and the Compostela players threatening to sue for damages. "Maradona + Ronaldo," ran the equation "= Messi". El PaÃs called him "infinity", while El Mundo reserved for him a "place amongst the greatest".
Speaking of the greatest, even Marca, the newspaper who decided to ignore Messi's brilliance against Stuttgart on Wednesday by splashing on the breaking news that Muhammad Ali is a legend, found a place for him on their cover. Near the bottom, but on the cover nonetheless, with the headline "Super Messi". "Maradona, here's your son," it said inside. AS too gave Messi big billing – just above a Rafa van der Vaart explaining that just because he controlled the ball with his hands it doesn't mean he handballed it. "Messi," said the paper, "is from another world!"
All of which might seem a bit over the top for a hat-trick against the side that conceded six against Real Madrid and lie just three points above the relegation zone. Late last night, on the ape-house shouting-fest that is Punto Pelota, Pedro Pablo San MartÃn turned on his fellow guests, accusing them of "popping Viagra", shouting: "Stop going on about him all the time! It's only Zaragoza!"
Only, it's not. And that is the point. It's not only Zaragoza, it's everyone else too. It's every game. For Barcelona, at least. One of the incredible things about Messi is how rarely he disappoints. In fact, it's tempting to conclude that he has made the ridiculous so routine that he doesn't get talked about as much as deserves; playing perfectly is hardly news. It was not just Zaragoza, it was the fact that Messi has now scored two La Liga hat-tricks in a row, after an astonishingly brilliant three against Valencia last week. It was the fact that, until he handed the ball to Ibrahimovic, he had scored Barcelona's last nine goals. It was the display against Stuttgart that prompted Christian Gross to admit: "Comparing him to Maradona is perfectly licit now." It was the eight in a week. The 11 in five games. The free-kick against AlmerÃa – so subtle, so stupidly soft you wonder if he was wearing slippers. And playing with a balloon. The 25 in the league already, the 34 in all competitions.
It's not just the goals either. When it comes to the inevitable and often tedious comparisons with Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the things that is often said about Messi is that he is not as complete. Earlier this season the pro-Real Madrid newspaper Marca asked the man who had just published a glossy, club-sponsored biography of Ronaldo to do a comparison of Ronaldo and Messi in the midst of its campaign to beatify the Portuguese – and get pictures of him with his top off on their cover as often as possible. Surprise, surprise, Ronaldo won. He scored higher than Messi in heading, speed, shooting, leadership, physical condition, and free-kicks and penalties, scoring the same in technique and passing.
It was not a new conclusion. In England too Ronaldo is invariably described as more complete than Messi – stronger, faster, bigger, more athletic. But aren't they all part of the same package, an obsession with physical strength? Isn't that a pretty incomplete reading of complete? Last season Messi scored twice as many Champions League goals with half as many shots. This season, Messi is the league's top scorer with 10 more than Ronaldo, has provided more assists than anyone else (Ronaldo is not in the top 20) and has completed more passes than any other attacker. He hasn't even taken any penalties.
Yes, they were acting like they were on Viagra. But, no, it wasn't just Zaragoza. It is everything Messi has done throughout his career. The 79 goals in 129 games. The two European Cups and three league titles. If he was not already the best player in the world in his first three seasons – 30 goals in 60 games – it's because of injury. Every season, he missed at least 10 matches. But when he played there were special moments. That unbelievable hat-trick against Real Madrid. That Getafe goal. The pair of destructions of Atlético Madrid. The naturalness with which he took over from Ronaldinho – every bit as much the messiah but not such a naughty boy.
You always felt he was just an injury-free season away from being the best. Last season he got it. Last season he got 38. The top scorer's award in the Champions League. The goal in the Champions League final. And the World Club Cup final. And the two in what was effectively the league final – the historic 6-2 against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu, when he was described as "Maradona, Cruyff, and Best rolled into one". As well as the Copa sublime hat-trick that knocked Atlético out of the Cup and saw the Vicente Calderón hand him a standing ovation.
It is everything Messi has done and how he has done it. It is the sheer stupidness of his talent, the ohmygoddidyoujustseewhathedid? about him. The fact that he gets hacked at and somehow keeps on running, that he'd be like a Weeble only he hardly ever even wobbles. That the ball, to use the old cliché, really does seem to be tied to his feet. He doesn't even seem to kick it most of the time: like a faithful dog, it just runs alongside him. That he's like the kid in the under-10s team that picks the ball up, runs rings round everyone and scores; that he is exactly the kid he was when he was a kid. That he goes from 0-60 in no time and from 60-0 again in even less – what was so stunning about his goal against Valencia last weekend was how suddenly he stopped, sending the defender screeching by like a cartoon character off a cliff.
It is that last night his president Joan Laporta announced that Messi is the best player in Barcelona's history – and it didn't sound completely ridiculous. Premature, yes. Exaggerated, probably. But not completely ridiculous. Yes, Messi has more to win in order to prove it – although he has already won more than George Best ever did and more European Cups than Diego Maradona. Yes, he still has to achieve things to make his case watertight, particularly with Argentina. But how could it be otherwise? After all, for all the sublime touches, the goals, the assists and the win-it-on-his-own performances, perhaps the most ridiculous thing of all is that Leo Messi is still only 22.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=39457.msg1075276#msg1075276 date=1269315441]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39457.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1269314817]
I can't help but think he's peaking now. I just don't see how much more he can improve - he already does it all.
At the age of 22, he's got 79 goals in 133 appearances (not sure how up to date that is) for Barcelona and has won three league titles, two champion leagues, a few other trophies as well as the Ballon D'or and Fifa Player of the Year. He is already one of the best players ever I think. He needs a stellar World Cup to really cement his place alongside the likes of Maradona though.
[/quote]
He'll become bigger, stronger, faster. He'll be able to do all the things he does now, but faster. And more. He may not grow much more talent-wise, but his body is far from completely mature yet.
[/quote]
Not sure about that. With all the growth hormones he was given I think he is as big as he's going to get.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39457.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1269314817]
I can't help but think he's peaking now. I just don't see how much more he can improve - he already does it all.
At the age of 22, he's got 79 goals in 133 appearances (not sure how up to date that is) for Barcelona and has won three league titles, two champion leagues, a few other trophies as well as the Ballon D'or and Fifa Player of the Year. He is already one of the best players ever I think. He needs a stellar World Cup to really cement his place alongside the likes of Maradona though.
[/quote]
He'll become bigger, stronger, faster. He'll be able to do all the things he does now, but faster. And more. He may not grow much more talent-wise, but his body is far from completely mature yet.
[/quote]
Not sure about that. With all the growth hormones he was given I think he is as big as he's going to get.
He's absolutely ridiculous. Great article. He really is the only thing that makes me smile these days with regards to football. Amazing.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39457.msg1075518#msg1075518 date=1269369424]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39457.msg1075205#msg1075205 date=1269293473]
Maradona was a Rooney type of figure, ferocious and very difficult to knock off the ball.
[/quote]
Messi doesn't get knocked off the ball anymore. He's incredibly strong. Freakishly so.
[/quote]
That's very true. It's a regular occurrence to see him running (or trying to run) with the ball after being fouled two or three times.
Great article as well.
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39457.msg1075205#msg1075205 date=1269293473]
Maradona was a Rooney type of figure, ferocious and very difficult to knock off the ball.
[/quote]
Messi doesn't get knocked off the ball anymore. He's incredibly strong. Freakishly so.
[/quote]
That's very true. It's a regular occurrence to see him running (or trying to run) with the ball after being fouled two or three times.
Great article as well.
Wow, after that article I think I need to make a concerted effort to watch more of Barcelona.
I don't think he's freakishly strong, he's just got incredible balance and a low center of gravity (i.e. a shortarse)
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39457.msg1075186#msg1075186 date=1269290335]
I couldn't fucking care less
[/quote]
Gosh, you're so above all of us/this aren't you?
You obviously haven't seen him play very much in recent weeks and months then, because there's no way any football fan could not be interested and enthralled by what he's currently doing on a football pitch. He's he best player in the world, and rightly the debates about his abilites in comparison to Maradona are out there, because he's that fucking good.
Why you, or any football fan isn't interested in watching or talking about the greatest footballer alive is beyond me.
I couldn't fucking care less
[/quote]
Gosh, you're so above all of us/this aren't you?
You obviously haven't seen him play very much in recent weeks and months then, because there's no way any football fan could not be interested and enthralled by what he's currently doing on a football pitch. He's he best player in the world, and rightly the debates about his abilites in comparison to Maradona are out there, because he's that fucking good.
Why you, or any football fan isn't interested in watching or talking about the greatest footballer alive is beyond me.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39457.msg1075724#msg1075724 date=1269413353]
I don't think he's freakishly strong, he's just got incredible balance and a low center of gravity (i.e. a shortarse)
[/quote]
Yeah that's probably factor in his apparant strength. A few times in the last year or two , though, I've seen big hefty fella's throwing all their weight at him just to bounce off. Last year Messi put John Terry on his arse when they came shoulder to shoulder.
I don't think he's freakishly strong, he's just got incredible balance and a low center of gravity (i.e. a shortarse)
[/quote]
Yeah that's probably factor in his apparant strength. A few times in the last year or two , though, I've seen big hefty fella's throwing all their weight at him just to bounce off. Last year Messi put John Terry on his arse when they came shoulder to shoulder.
bump - 2.5 yrs later (wow) what's the consensus?
Scoring 73 goals in 2011-12 season, winning the champs league again suggests that he is on a par with Diego. He still has not won the world cup though!
Thoughts?
Scoring 73 goals in 2011-12 season, winning the champs league again suggests that he is on a par with Diego. He still has not won the world cup though!
Thoughts?
If he single-handedly wins Argentina the world cup, he'll be on par with Maradona.
If he joins Aston Villa and they win the league two years later. He'll be better.
There is a huge sense of romanticism when it comes to players like Maradona and Pele. They have been built up to such a degree that they've almost become god-like and impossible for any player in the modern age to live up to.
Messi is of course as good as Mardonna. Maybe better.
Arsene Wenger was right - he is like a PlayStation player. The speed and execution of his play a lot of the time feels like he's not bound by the same laws as the rest (that said, the same can be said of some of the players around him at times).
I still think that he'll need a strong World Cup showing. Or two. Particularly in places like S. America.
He's been much better for Argentina recently though and has a great understanding with Aguero so who knows, maybe it'll happen for him.
Messi is of course as good as Mardonna. Maybe better.
Arsene Wenger was right - he is like a PlayStation player. The speed and execution of his play a lot of the time feels like he's not bound by the same laws as the rest (that said, the same can be said of some of the players around him at times).
I still think that he'll need a strong World Cup showing. Or two. Particularly in places like S. America.
He's been much better for Argentina recently though and has a great understanding with Aguero so who knows, maybe it'll happen for him.
He's as good as Maradonna at taking drugs. Theyve been pumping him full of steroids since he was 12.
I don't think doing it at the World Cup matters as much as many say. The quality in the Champions League is just as good as the World Cup, if not better. I haven't really seen Maradona play, only clips here and there, but I can't imagine him being much better than Messi.
I disagree, Barca can buy the best players to fit around Messi, Argentina have to pick what suits Messi best, the difference between international football and club football is you have to make do with what you have, when Messi drags this team to a World Cup, he'll be better. People also forget that Maradona dragged an average team to a league title.
Messi may be as technically good as Maradona but doesn't have the leadership skills, drive or tenacity to be as good a player.... yet.
Messi may be as technically good as Maradona but doesn't have the leadership skills, drive or tenacity to be as good a player.... yet.
Playing the important role in Winning the world cup does that to any player mate. Future generations when they reminisce about those events add an extra 30% to the level of performance of the important player. If England had won the world cup in 2006 and if Carra had put in a number of impressive performance, he would have been remembered as the "rock which no striker was able to get past". Winning the world cup elevates great players to immortal ideal players.
I still prefer Zidane's performance in the European Cup final against Leverkusen than any of his World Cup performances.
That goal alone made an "immortal ideal player"
Winning the World Cup can mean jack shit too. Reina, Diomede or Riedle have medals, getting one doesn't make them any better than Traore or Baros.
That goal alone made an "immortal ideal player"
Winning the World Cup can mean jack shit too. Reina, Diomede or Riedle have medals, getting one doesn't make them any better than Traore or Baros.
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