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A British Lions XV

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Judge Jules

Judge Jules

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Now that the smoke of civil war has cleared, who should carry the standard Southwards to go and do battle with the Boks?

The following is the team that emerges from a discussion by two journos, Jeremy Guscott, Kenny Logan and Lawrence Dallaglio in the "Sunday Times" today.  I wonder what other rugby fans will make of it.  There was a lot of disagreement over most of these picks BTW - what I've given below represents a majority view for each position, not a unanimous one by any means:

15  Byrne

14  Shane Williams (actually he got more votes than any other player for both wing positions!)
13  Dricco
12  Roberts (big surprise to me)
11  (Williams got three votes for RW and two for LW - the alternatives for LW were Fitzgerald, Bowe and Sackey)

10  O'Gara
9    Phillips

1  Jenkins
2  Ford (another surprise in my book)
3  Murray

4  O'Connell, who captains the side
5  AWJ

6  Croft
8  Heaslip
7  Martyn Williams

Views?
 
Re: A British Lions XI

15 Byrne

14 Shane Williams
13 BOD
12 Henson
11 Bowe

10 ?? (This position is so open, allthough O'Gara wouldn't get near it for me)
9 Phillips

1 Jenkins
2 Ford
3 Murray/Vickery

4 O'Connell (captain)
5 AWJ

6 Croft
8 Powell
7 Ferris
 
15. Armitage
14. Howe
13. Dricco
12. Flutey
11. Williams
10. O'Gara
9. Phillips / peel

8. Jones
7. Williams
6. Ferris
5. O'Connell (capt)
4. O'Callaghan
3. Murray
2. Flannery / ford
1. Jenkins
 
BTW here's my line-up:

15 Byrne
14 Lewsey
13 Dricco
12 Shanklin
11 Williams

10 Cipriani
9 Phillips

1 Jenkins
2 Flannery
3 Murray
4 O'Connell (capt.)
5 Shaw
6 Worsley
8 Heaslip
7 Wallace

Apart from 10, it's a selection influenced heavily by the fact that you are going to need warriors out there, warriors who can play but warriors nonetheless.

Ideally I'd prefer Lewsey at full-back but for my money Byrne's earned that shirt (Armitage is possibly the more talented player but Byrne is consistency personified).

Shaw's another player who's been seriously underused by England and I think he'd have a magnificent last hurrah out on the high veldt, while Worsley is a human combine harvester.

Very close between Wallace and Martyn Williams for 7 but I remember another Irish Wallace, a prop, coming from nowhere to star for the Lions out there before, so I'm hoping for a repeat.

I admit to being unsure about Cipriani, but I don't see an outstanding candidate among the current no.10s and Cipriani is by a street the most talented footballer among them all.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32212.msg829326#msg829326 date=1237739910]
Do you genuinely mean Howe as opposed to Bowe, Ross?
[/quote]

No, it was a spelling mistake !

I'm still trying figure out what names you were trying to spell when you put Cipriani and Lewsey in your team.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg830807#msg830807 date=1237899308]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32212.msg829326#msg829326 date=1237739910]
Do you genuinely mean Howe as opposed to Bowe, Ross?
[/quote]

No, it was a spelling mistake !

I'm still trying figure out what names you were trying to spell when you put Cipriani and Lewsey in your team.
[/quote]



Haha
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=32212.msg830811#msg830811 date=1237899394]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg830807#msg830807 date=1237899308]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32212.msg829326#msg829326 date=1237739910]
Do you genuinely mean Howe as opposed to Bowe, Ross?
[/quote]

No, it was a spelling mistake !

I'm still trying figure out what names you were trying to spell when you put Cipriani and Lewsey in your team.
[/quote]



Haha
[/quote]

haha x 100
 
Bo11ocks to the lot of you - you're as bad as we ever were after the 2003 World Cup. ;D

One name you can bet I wasn't trying to spell is Ronan O'Gara. Schalk Burger and whichever attack dogs they play in midfield would leave him splattered all over the pitch. Lions teams have often featured guys who aren't current regulars for their respective national teams but, if you're short-sighted enough to insist on playing a current regular, Stephen Jones would be a far better choice. As for Lewsey, we're going to need a winger who's defensively top notch to play out there against Habana. Doubt his attacking ability? Go ask Les Bleus about that.
 
Yeah who needs a match winner at outhalf when you can have a bottler like Jones instead.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg830887#msg830887 date=1237903624]
Yeah who needs a match winner at outhalf when you can have a bottler like Jones instead.
[/quote]

You mean the Stephen Jones that has won as many Grand Slams as the Irish have in there entire history Rosco?

O'Gara has to be one of the poorest tacklers playing international rugby, and against the SA's that would be a flaw that would cost us matches.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg831013#msg831013 date=1237915543]
Yet Ryan Jones couldn't get by him on Saturday Rafa
[/quote]

And yet you wonder why i rate Powell as a much better 8 :)

He was however placed on his backisde at least 4 times (and that was only in the 1st 10mins)

Over the last 4 years we've won 2 Grand Slams and beaten you twice, so it's a little bit crazy to be running down the Welsh players Rosco. Fair play to your boys you fully deserved the win this year, but that win doesn't absolve all flaws that the Irish team currently has. One of the most obvious is that O'Gara clearly can't carry out his defensive duties when it comes to international rugby.

As you know the SA's have a brutal back row, and if O'Gara was to start (he won't) they would run all over him time and again.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg831022#msg831022 date=1237916390]
0 tries scored by Wales.

How fucking shit is our defense ?
[/quote]

Nobody said your defence is shit, yet its a fact that O'Gara can't tackle.
 
O'Gara has missed tackles, that's true. But to say he can't tackle is stupid for a couple of reasons.

1. It's obviously untrue.

2. What does it say for the Welsh players who couldn't get by O'Gara during the 80 mins ?

If he's such a weak link teams would have been running in tries all over the place against us, but the reality is we conceded three tries in 5 games.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg831047#msg831047 date=1237918632]
O'Gara has missed tackles, that's true. But to say he can't tackle is stupid for a couple of reasons.

1. It's obviously untrue.

2. What does it say for the Welsh players who couldn't get by O'Gara during the 80 mins ?

If he's such a weak link teams would have been running in tries all over the place against us, but the reality is we conceded three tries in 5 games.

[/quote]

I'm over egging it, but he is extremely weak in this area IMO.

I'd suggest that your back row covered for him for most of the 6 nations, that will be a luxury that the B&I Lions can't afford.

Considering that we don't have any stand out options for 10, if he doesn't get picked to start, why do you think that'll be then?
 
Because Gatland is a cock obv.

It's 50/50 between him and Jones, it was at the beginning and it is now too. Needless to say I prefer ROG.

I'd be willing to bet Jones missed more tackles during the Championship though. If I could only find the stats .....

To give you a comparison, I mentioned in a thread recently about United's Anderson got a reputation bigger than he warranted solely because of a challenge he won against Gerrard which was repeated ad nasuem on TV. That stuck in people's minds, when really it means fuck all in the grand scheme of things. Likewise with O'Gara's tackling. He has been brushed aside spectacularly by forwards on occasion and it gives the impression that he's an awful tackler, the truth is while he's not great he doesn't miss many. The perceived weakness is just that, perceived.

Not one team has been able to take advantage of our "weakness" this year.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg831053#msg831053 date=1237919470]

Not one team has been able to take advantage of our "weakness" this year.
[/quote]

Yet many teams have consistently since he's been playing international rugby.

I don't buy it personally Rosco, i think his one main flaw is that he's weak defensively (Even Keith Wood states that O'Gara shouldn't start for the B&I Lions).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
 
I'm not saying he's great defensively Rafa, I'm saying the weakness is absolutely massively overstated. Blown out of all proportion.

By the way if you want to put players opinions into the argument, Dan Carter reckons O'Gara is the best he's played against.
 
Yes, and the discussion's currently centring on who should play no.10 for them. Don't see what the problem is with that. Some of your countrymen have stars in their eyes when it comes to ROG, but that just adds to the fun. ;)
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32212.msg831167#msg831167 date=1237932926]

By the way if you want to put players opinions into the argument, Dan Carter reckons O'Gara is the best he's played against.
[/quote]


Did he really say that Rosco (I'd like to see those quotes if you can find them)? I'm a huge fan of Carters, but he does have a tendency to kiss the arse of the FH he's about to come up against (Check out his comments about Hook recently)

Carter on O'Gara:

NEW ZEALAND out-half Dan Carter says Ireland are "lucky" to have Ronan O'Gara and expects his counterpart to have a significant impact when the two countries clash at Croke Park on Saturday.

"I definitely hold him in high regard," said Carter yesterday. "He's an extremely experienced player and he's got great skill. He's a real asset to the Irish side, he reads the game extremely well and he's got one of the best kicking games in rugby."

Carter (26) saw O'Gara close up in Wellington last June when New Zealand beat Ireland 21-11. Both No 10s played well that night but Carter edged their personal duel by escaping the 31-year-old's clutches on his way to setting up Ma'a Nonu's key try.


To be fair he's spot on about O'Gara's kicking and the experience he has.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32212.msg831334#msg831334 date=1237975260]
Yes, and the discussion's currently centring on who should play no.10 for them. Don't see what the problem is with that. Some of your countrymen have stars in their eyes when it comes to ROG, but that just adds to the fun. ;)
[/quote]

I've heard certain people calling for Jonny to get selected JJ, would you take him?
 
"The ball comes out to Wilkinson....He drops for World Cup glory....It's up....IT'S OVER! ENGLAND HAVE WON THE WORLD CUP!"

Too right I'd take him, and not just to make up the numbers either. A lot would depend on his fitness of course, and how he shaped up in training, but if you want to win a game or close it out when the pressure's on there's nobody who'll do it better. Some of those Boks would know they'd been tackled too, if Jonny was on the pitch.
 
Wilko is finished as a top level outhalf.

Cipriani was taken off at half time in his last club game, because he was so poor.

Jones sliced the kick out of touch that gave ROG the opportunity for a drop goal, and he missed a kick to redeem himself too.

Give me the guy that can't tackle every day of the week.
 
it is either Jones or O'Gara, the others are either injured or not playing well enough.
 
[quote author=Schalk Burger & Pierre Spies link=topic=32212.msg831855#msg831855 date=1238016632]

Give me the guy that can't tackle every day of the week.
[/quote]

.
 
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