Pre Match Thread - Chelsea (a) - Sun 13th 16:30
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Unsporting behaviour no?
I wish they enforced Rugby Union rules.
Only the captain can speak to the ref.
That’s a stretch, it was a brilliant bit of forward play but for some reason you seem determined to negate it.
A mixed game from Trent, but Robbo on the other side was far worse.
A mixed game? He was awful.
Robertson was very poor first half, better second when Jones came on especially.
Things that disappointed me:
1) Thought Trent's passing was really poor, besides the 'assist' - he just missed on so many passes.
2) Thought Jota was largely ineffective despite the usual shift.
3) Thought Salah, besides his wonderful assist, was very wasteful with his passing.
4) Gakpo was terrible - horrible touch, dogshit passing. Had he been 'remotely' on, we probably win as he had the ability to really create dangerous passages of play and every time, he cocked up.
5) The Ref 'rightly' ( I guess?) awards Mac Allister a yellow for waving a card ... but minutes beforehand, ignores the same exact motion from Jackson ...
6) VAR doesn't give a penalty for a handball. Sorry folks, that is not a natural position for your hands to be in when jumping for a corner ... If it was a free kick, I would say it was the right call.
Things that gave me some optimism:
1) Mac Allister is class.
2) SzobosIcan'tSpellhisnameai put in a great shift and clearly has some class to him.
3) Salah's outburst at being subbed. I'd have been more concerned if he took it nicely - want that attitude with all my players, prefer they don't litter as much next time!
4) Alli is still top top class - which will ensure we have a chance in many games.
5) VvD looked pretty good today - maybe the added responsibility will help him.
Why we're in trouble ...
1) Mac Allister isn't a 6 - he's really good but to make this midfield WORLD CLASS, a Caicedo type player is needed. It's key to the season.
2) We were lucky to get a point - sure, missed peno (again) and a whisker from being 2-0, but we were being battered and they passed through us with ease ...
3) We're 2 points behind City already ... next game is a must win, if we draw/lose and they win, that's already a 4 point gap after 2 games ... That has an effect on players, as we saw last season.
1) Thought Trent's passing was really poor, besides the 'assist' - he just missed on so many passes.
2) Thought Jota was largely ineffective despite the usual shift.
3) Thought Salah, besides his wonderful assist, was very wasteful with his passing.
4) Gakpo was terrible - horrible touch, dogshit passing. Had he been 'remotely' on, we probably win as he had the ability to really create dangerous passages of play and every time, he cocked up.
5) The Ref 'rightly' ( I guess?) awards Mac Allister a yellow for waving a card ... but minutes beforehand, ignores the same exact motion from Jackson ...
6) VAR doesn't give a penalty for a handball. Sorry folks, that is not a natural position for your hands to be in when jumping for a corner ... If it was a free kick, I would say it was the right call.
Things that gave me some optimism:
1) Mac Allister is class.
2) SzobosIcan'tSpellhisnameai put in a great shift and clearly has some class to him.
3) Salah's outburst at being subbed. I'd have been more concerned if he took it nicely - want that attitude with all my players, prefer they don't litter as much next time!
4) Alli is still top top class - which will ensure we have a chance in many games.
5) VvD looked pretty good today - maybe the added responsibility will help him.
Why we're in trouble ...
1) Mac Allister isn't a 6 - he's really good but to make this midfield WORLD CLASS, a Caicedo type player is needed. It's key to the season.
2) We were lucky to get a point - sure, missed peno (again) and a whisker from being 2-0, but we were being battered and they passed through us with ease ...
3) We're 2 points behind City already ... next game is a must win, if we draw/lose and they win, that's already a 4 point gap after 2 games ... That has an effect on players, as we saw last season.
I thought Salah rushed his run, if only he had timed his take off a fraction later, this was a very clear goal. He ended up being alone with the keeper and no defender around and with lots of time on him before scoring.
I love the priorities of English football authorities. Clubs openly flaunting the rules, imaginary sponsorship deals which undermine the very basis of the competition - no problem.
Waving imaginary cards, being emotional towards referees in the heat of the moment against contentious decisions - that is simply unacceptable.
We're not competing for the title, I'd wash your hands with that expectation now before you start getting more irritated by it every passing week.
Should've been a penalty and was a shocking decision to not at the least call the ref over to review, who's going to be the poster that keeps count of all the scandalous decisions that go against us?
What's so unsporting about it?
English people like nothing more than an opportunity to pretend to be moral.
He did book Jackson too
That wasn't very good, was it? Unless we get a top defensive midfielder in, we're going to struggle again.
There's trying to be unbiased and there is this. His hands were low but his hand was not tucked in. It was away from his body. The ball travelled a full 20 something yards without before it hit him in the middle of his hand. We've seen before that VAR often is afraid to overturn ref's decisions (even though it's literally what it was brought in for). It was a very clear handball.
You've got to understand it was a subjective call.. even on here we are arguing if it should/shouldn't have been given.
Those saying no are saying his hand/arm was by the side of his body. You can't jump without using your arms usually.. and the time it took to hit his hand. There was no Time to move it away.
In that circumstance the VAR official was right to stick with the on field decision of no penalty.
For the record if he had given a penalty I don't think it should have been over turned either. It was a subjective play.
95% of handballs in the box is subjective and this is the problem, I think they said the only reason why it wasn't given was due to Jackson being in close proximity to Diaz (which I kinda see tbh but I don't think it's a strong enough call) but for me his arm/hand is very much in an unnatural position anyway so it kinda cancels the whole "not enough time to move it out the way" and it just so happens to block his header's clear path towards goal.
But you got to be able to see that with the naked eye and spot more times than not it's a pen.......if it's given no one argues, now it wasn't given fans are irate (not just us) but neutral fans who just want to see a fair game between 2 teams. If that happened in the game earlier against Spurs or Brentford, I would've felt the same way.
We were very hard done by on that decision, no doubt that'll be many more similar like it during the season which get given.
I don't think it was handball on the basis of the "enlarging the silhouette" aspect of the rule. If his hand hadn't been there, the ball would have hit his body.
The question then is the more simple one of did he "deliberately handle" the ball. It's hard to tell from the replays whether he moved his hand towards the ball or whether the impact of ball on hand made it look like he did. VAR ought to have slowed the replay down more to confirm that, but I don't think there's enough for a clear and obvious error decision. The on-field decision, whatever it was, would have held. But I feel like VAR should have taken more time reviewing.
Of course I'd have wanted a penalty, but I don't feel robbed - it's just another example of the home team getting the benefit of the doubt, it just feels worse because it's Chelsea.
All told, I thought a draw was fair and I'd have taken that at the kick-off.
The question then is the more simple one of did he "deliberately handle" the ball. It's hard to tell from the replays whether he moved his hand towards the ball or whether the impact of ball on hand made it look like he did. VAR ought to have slowed the replay down more to confirm that, but I don't think there's enough for a clear and obvious error decision. The on-field decision, whatever it was, would have held. But I feel like VAR should have taken more time reviewing.
Of course I'd have wanted a penalty, but I don't feel robbed - it's just another example of the home team getting the benefit of the doubt, it just feels worse because it's Chelsea.
All told, I thought a draw was fair and I'd have taken that at the kick-off.
Can we get @Dreambeliever to start the match threads please @Brizzle?
Too early to really judge the team as a whole, but one quick thing I’ll say: I’m worried about Trent. Just like the last 2 pre-season games he was on the periphery, unsure where to be, sometimes sloppy - a far cry from a world-class creator we saw at the end of last season. Something happened in the middle of the pre-season (roughly around the time he was given the vice-captaincy, although I don’t think that was the reason) where he suddenly started playing within himself. Maybe he wants to be a full-time midfielder and not have to shuffle between two positions? Or is it something personal?
Either way, we need Trent to be world-class - this team depends on it to unlock everything, the way Enzo unlocked everything for Chelsea. If he is not creating at the De Bruyne level game after game, then all you have is a muddled and unnecessarily complicated defensive structure without nearly enough attacking threat to compensate for it.
Either way, we need Trent to be world-class - this team depends on it to unlock everything, the way Enzo unlocked everything for Chelsea. If he is not creating at the De Bruyne level game after game, then all you have is a muddled and unnecessarily complicated defensive structure without nearly enough attacking threat to compensate for it.
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There is little chance of him doing that. He looked lost in midfielder, he definitely does not have the composure, brains or experience to play there. We are talking about world class talents here, KDB, Enzo, who played in midfield for years, more importantly in their formative years. As talented as Trent is, it is not possible to drop him in and expect anything close to the same level.
IMO he should stay in his right back position. There is just nowhere else he can play. It's not happening, he is not a CM. A CM does so much more than exclusively playing long passes. He can do that from anywhere. The sight of him popping up on the left after another headless run to nowhere is just the last straw. He looked lost and tentative. He doesn't know what to do. We need to take tasks away from him and bring him back to basics. Otherwise we need to be patient with him. He is not going to turn into some midfield monster overnight.
Maybe in time, maybe never. My bet is on the latter.
I disagree. He looked proper amazing in midfield at the end of last season - and that was a string of 8 or 9 games, hardly a fluke. Looked good for England in this role too. And he did actually play in midfield in his formative years and he has a lot more than just long passes in his locker.
The problem is figuring out why we didn’t see it last night.
Its’s possible the thing that happened was the fact we’re bedding in 2 new midfielders that he’s not on the same wavelength as.
He also spent the first couple of games as the DM with Bradley playing RB, and it was really only in the last game that we had Gakpo playing as a false 9.
From what I can see, we haven’t quite started playing the system we ended up with last season - the whole midfield and forward line is more like the shape we started last season with, rather than ended.
Not sure I agree about the de Bruyne creation level and not having enough other midfield creativity - Mac A & Slobbers should provide that, with Trent being “in addition”.
Needs that DM in the middle & Mac A further forward with Gakpo in the forward line.
It is a concern, though, given this was supposed to be something worked out in pre-season.
Competent is the word I would use, not amazing. Strings of 8, 9 games based on his long passes I can agree. But strutting around like a peacock in midfield with little to no pressure on him hardly proves anything.
Yesterday was the first match where we played anyone close to our level. No surprises, Gallagher, Enzo, Szobo, MacA were good. Gakpo and Trent stunk, because they were pretending to be midfielders.
Anyway, when the big boys come around, we shall see.
Trent can play in cm when we have lots and lots of the ball. I doubt he'd have been there in competitive games like this if we had options.
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