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So Swansea (League Cup)

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In his first two years, amongst many goals, Garcia volleyed past Buffon from 25 yards, curled a stunner in the top corner against Charlton, scored an exquisite lob against Norwich, and knocked Chelsea out in the semi finals of the champions league, immortalising himself in Anfield history, and that's just off the top of my head! Now I'm a massive fan of Coutinho, but hes done nowhere near as much as Garcia did, and although his potential is no doubt much higher, and for that reason I'm more than happy to give him the chance to develop, Garcia was a much better player and looking purely at the now, I'd happily swap 2005 Garcia with 2014 Coutinho. So lets not talk shit yeh?
 
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Looking at it again I think they're both to blame, but i'd put more blame on Toure, who was in absolute no mans land.

 
Didn't Toure come charging out leaving the goalscoring completely unmarked, requiring Lovren to come over and attempt to cover?

True, Toure had a part to play (and so did Henderson) as his position wasn't ideal. He had drifted out - rather than charging out - in reaction to the huge swathe of space Shelvey was being gifted. As Lucas moved up to cover, Toure was slow to recover, leaving Lovren with a 2-v-1 situation for a moment. Lovren then shifted to cover the space behind Toure and Emnes became his man, while Johnson shifted in to cover Gomis (Henderson could've dropped down to cover Gomis earlier instead).

While he wasn't the source of the problem, Lovren had a large role in the end as he had the final responsibility of being the last man watching Emnes, and he failed to stick tight to him. If Toure had charged out like you said and caught Lovren unawares, he could've been cut some slack, but if you look at the clip below, at the 7th second mark, Toure was already out of position and Lovren was already beside Emnes. The goal went in at about the 10th or 11th second.

http://www.tvgolo.com/en/match-highlights-1414529189---40

Again, it's a team defensive error and the problem didn't start with him, but he's the last man to stop the shot and he wasn't even within 2 metres of the player in the box.
 
Lovren was marking Emnes. Toure could have been in the opposite 18yd box it made no difference - Lovren was ball-watching and totally lost his man.

Toure 10% at fault. Lovren 90%.
 
How was Lovren supposed to anticipate the wild deflection off Borini's toe falling perfectly for Emnes? He had Gomis right behind him and Johnson would have been unable to cover had the pass or the deflection gone to Gomis. I don't see much wrong with either Toure's or Lovren's positioning here TBH. The main problem was giving Shelvey too much time and space in a dangerous area.
 
How was Lovren supposed to anticipate the wild deflection off Borini's toe falling perfectly for Emnes? He had Gomis right behind him and Johnson would have been unable to cover had the pass or the deflection gone to Gomis. I don't see much wrong with either Toure's or Lovren's positioning here TBH. The main problem was giving Shelvey too much time and space in a dangerous area.

Watch it again. Lovren is marking Emnes and doesn't follow him because he's ball-watching. Gomis is not 'right behind him' he's 7 yds away and he's Johnson's.
 
Watch it again. Lovren is marking Emnes and doesn't follow him because he's ball-watching. Gomis is not 'right behind him' he's 7 yds away and he's Johnson's.

Gomis was wide open as Johnson was on the wrong side of him. But more importantly, Lovren was not supposed to sprint all the way to the right leaving the center of the penalty area completely open (with Toure stepping out already). He might have reacted to the deflection a tad too late (probably misjudged the flight of the ball possibly because of a difficult angle or spin), but once it deflected off Borini and was dropping perfectly for Emnes there was not much he could do.
 
I kind of agree with Rurik that it was collective, but all this posturing about him being a modern defender who steps out, gets tight to players and attacks the ball, seems laughable now. He gets caught in no mans land in pretty much every game and seems to have cost us a goal in nearly every game.
 
He's clearly at fault. I've defended him a fair bit, but that cunt of a celebration has annoyed me.
 
He makes it look so simple.

I thought he made not over-hitting through balls and playing the killer pass look pretty difficult. But I know what you mean, there's a delightful football player lurking inside and I just hope he does indeed sharpen up.
 
In his first two years, amongst many goals, Garcia volleyed past Buffon from 25 yards, curled a stunner in the top corner against Charlton, scored an exquisite lob against Norwich, and knocked Chelsea out in the semi finals of the champions league, immortalising himself in Anfield history, and that's just off the top of my head! Now I'm a massive fan of Coutinho, but hes done nowhere near as much as Garcia did, and although his potential is no doubt much higher, and for that reason I'm more than happy to give him the chance to develop, Garcia was a much better player and looking purely at the now, I'd happily swap 2005 Garcia with 2014 Coutinho. So lets not talk shit yeh?

Again, this is a pointless comparison.

Garcia was 26 when he joined us - in his prime, and from one of the best teams in the world.

Coutinho joined us as a 20 year old kid, and is still mostly a kid.

They're also completely different players - Garcia was a floaty goalscoring attacking midfielder. He had two great feet, a very good leap and a knack of scoring important goals. Technically, his touch was great, but he was no dribbler at all. He couldn't carry the ball 5 yards without tripping over himself in indecision, or backheeling it to an opponent or flicking it out of touch. His passing was extremely extremely inconsistent, and though he could play a good through ball on occasion, he was no playmaker.

Coutinho is a very different player. He's been bred as a playmaker. His control, touch and vision are out of this world - you're talking Zidane or Iniesta level. He sees and can make passes that Garcia wouldn't ever have made. Also, when he's fully focused, his ability to keep possession is outstanding. If football were a 5-a-side game, Coutinho would be one of the first players in the world I'd want in my team. Garcia would be one of the last - he'd flick the ball to the opposition every 2 mins. Coutinho's problems are two fold - his lack of intensity over 90 mins, and his lack of end product. If he fixes those, then by 26, he'll be a player miles ahead of Garcia.

Whether he does that is another question of course. I think the end product business can be remedied - there've been some encouraging signs regarding his shooting in the past few games. The real problem is his lack of intensity at times - his ability to last 90 mins, and his desire to boss the game on every possession is holding him back. I don't know what it'll take to fix that. If he does, he could easily be a top 10 player in the world. If he doesn't, I'm sure we'll continue to see more Garcia comparisons.
 
By the way, this is the first time this season we've actually won a game after falling behind. This was at our 6th time of trying - in the other 5 times this season, we lost every one of those games (City, Villa, West Ham, Basel, Real Madrid).
 
Again, this is a pointless comparison.

Garcia was 26 when he joined us - in his prime, and from one of the best teams in the world.

Coutinho joined us as a 20 year old kid, and is still mostly a kid.

They're also completely different players - Garcia was a floaty goalscoring attacking midfielder. He had two great feet, a very good leap and a knack of scoring important goals. Technically, his touch was great, but he was no dribbler at all. He couldn't carry the ball 5 yards without tripping over himself in indecision, or backheeling it to an opponent or flicking it out of touch. His passing was extremely extremely inconsistent, and though he could play a good through ball on occasion, he was no playmaker.

Coutinho is a very different player. He's been bred as a playmaker. His control, touch and vision are out of this world - you're talking Zidane or Iniesta level. He sees and can make passes that Garcia wouldn't ever have made. Also, when he's fully focused, his ability to keep possession is outstanding. If football were a 5-a-side game, Coutinho would be one of the first players in the world I'd want in my team. Garcia would be one of the last - he'd flick the ball to the opposition every 2 mins. Coutinho's problems are two fold - his lack of intensity over 90 mins, and his lack of end product. If he fixes those, then by 26, he'll be a player miles ahead of Garcia.

Whether he does that is another question of course. I think the end product business can be remedied - there've been some encouraging signs regarding his shooting in the past few games. The real problem is his lack of intensity at times - his ability to last 90 mins, and his desire to boss the game on every possession is holding him back. I don't know what it'll take to fix that. If he does, he could easily be a top 10 player in the world. If he doesn't, I'm sure we'll continue to see more Garcia comparisons.


Nailed it.
 
Is there a particular reason why Lovren shouldn't celebrate scoring ( his first goal for the club) the winner in the 95th minute?
 
Is there a particular reason why Lovren shouldn't celebrate scoring ( his first goal for the club) the winner in the 95th minute?

We are just taking the piss out of his celebration because he has that smug air to him.

Of course he should celebrate scoring the winner.
 
Lovren was marking Emnes. Toure could have been in the opposite 18yd box it made no difference - Lovren was ball-watching and totally lost his man.

Toure 10% at fault. Lovren 90%.


Is correct. Lovren was marking him, and then all of a sudden lost him while ball watching.
And had Emnes decided to pass it to Gomis, Gomis would have been free to scroe, since Johnson who was behind him didn't bother to try and mark him... Same basic mistakes again and again...
 
..........but once it deflected off Borini and was dropping perfectly for Emnes there was not much he could do.
There was nothing he could do because he was left for dead by Emnes BEFORE the ball was even played/deflected through. Lovren was ball-watching and completely lost the man he was marking.
 
Again, this is a pointless comparison.

Garcia was 26 when he joined us - in his prime, and from one of the best teams in the world.

Coutinho joined us as a 20 year old kid, and is still mostly a kid.

They're also completely different players - Garcia was a floaty goalscoring attacking midfielder. He had two great feet, a very good leap and a knack of scoring important goals. Technically, his touch was great, but he was no dribbler at all. He couldn't carry the ball 5 yards without tripping over himself in indecision, or backheeling it to an opponent or flicking it out of touch. His passing was extremely extremely inconsistent, and though he could play a good through ball on occasion, he was no playmaker.

Coutinho is a very different player. He's been bred as a playmaker. His control, touch and vision are out of this world - you're talking Zidane or Iniesta level. He sees and can make passes that Garcia wouldn't ever have made. Also, when he's fully focused, his ability to keep possession is outstanding. If football were a 5-a-side game, Coutinho would be one of the first players in the world I'd want in my team. Garcia would be one of the last - he'd flick the ball to the opposition every 2 mins. Coutinho's problems are two fold - his lack of intensity over 90 mins, and his lack of end product. If he fixes those, then by 26, he'll be a player miles ahead of Garcia.

Whether he does that is another question of course. I think the end product business can be remedied - there've been some encouraging signs regarding his shooting in the past few games. The real problem is his lack of intensity at times - his ability to last 90 mins, and his desire to boss the game on every possession is holding him back. I don't know what it'll take to fix that. If he does, he could easily be a top 10 player in the world. If he doesn't, I'm sure we'll continue to see more Garcia comparisons.


I'm not comparing them as players, I don't think I even made a reference to the way they played, it was purely a comparison of their time at Liverpool. People a page back were implying that Garcia was a liability, who frustrated more than he delivered when he was here, and somehow implying that Coutinho is not, it's rubbish, Garcia was a much better player when he was here, I've no doubt Coutinho will go on to be a much better (and different) player with time, but it's simply not true at the moment.
 
How was Lovren supposed to anticipate the wild deflection off Borini's toe falling perfectly for Emnes?

come on Rurik. You cover your man, because he may or may not get the ball, but you always cover, whether it's a pass or a deflection. You at least cover half the space to reduce the odds. He was strolling.

The celebration annoyed me as well, because he should be rightly embarassed about his defensive performances. Delighted he scored, but it should be muted given his defensive lapses. Not important I guess.
 
The celebration annoyed me as well, because he should be rightly embarassed about his defensive performances. Delighted he scored, but it should be muted given his defensive lapses. Not important I guess.

He scored a 95th min winner. Of course he's gonna celebrate man.
 
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