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Team for the 'must win' Utd game

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leftpeg

leftpeg

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Assuming they're all fit I'd go with:

Mignolet
Clyne
Skrtel
Sakho
Gomez

Can
Henderson
Milner

Firmino

Ings
Benteke

Bench: Bogdan, Moreno, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
 
That has to be the team.

Ive no doubt Lucas will start and Rodgers won't play 2 up top

I really hope he does though
 
Ming

Clyne
Sakho
Skrtel
Gomez

Can
Lucas

Milner
Firmino
Ibe

Benteke (studge off the bench. He'd start for me if fully fit)
 
Peggy's team for me. I really like Ibe and think he'll be a star, but that will be a season or two from now. Manu away is too soon for him methinks.
 
No way will he go 2 strikers up front away at United. I'd also be hesitant about giving Sakho his first game of the season in this match, although I really don't rate Lovren. I'd be tempted to drop Firmino and have Lucas in midfield to tighten it up. However, Benteke would just get too isolated. Moreno and Ibe would provide width and pace which will be essential for the counter attack. We also need to look to expose Shaw so need someone to get into the wings on the counter.

Mignolet

Clyne
Skrtel
Lovren
Gomez

Ibe
Henderson
Milner
Moreno

Firmino
Benteke
 
Utd are there for the taking and Rodgers really needs a win. I think we're far less likely to lose if we go there aiming for the win.
 
England's two biggest Clubs with their proud history and tradition, now both a shadow of what they once were going head to head in the battle for the 4th place trophy. How the mighty have fallen, well we fell a long time ago I suppose.

I'd probably go with the same team leftpeg put up. Looks the best we can serve up at the minute.

You just know how this will all pan out...we'll have good, bright spells in the game, miss a few glorious chances, maybe have a goal ruled out for offside and them filthy Manc rats will score with the ball bouncing off Rooney's knee. And they'll get one on the break to wrap the game up.
 
Mignolet

Clyne
Skrtel
Sakho
Gomez

Henderson
Milner
Can
Teixeira
Ings

Benteke

We have to keep their wide players marked, there's not much threat through the middle unless they start the long ball to Fellaini from the start.

Also need to retain possession much better so I would have Teixeira in the midfield, he can also pick a creative pass in the absence of Coutinho. Ings should be starting ahead of Firmino because at the moment he's a more reliable player who will run all day but can also support Benteke.
 
We're going to miss Coutinho. We were intent on fucking ourselves in that West Ham game - you could see that Coutinho knew how badly he fucked up straight away. So foolish.

I don't really know who to pick. We're very difficult to predict and so are Utd.

I think we need some pace in this so I'd be tempted to pick one of Ibe / Moreno to start.
 
All I know is that Benteke isn't going to suddenly become exciting. Still our best option but fucking hell.
 
A few things.

1. We need to STOP building the attack around Benteke. It's difficult when you've spent 32.5 million on him, but he's not our best attacking asset. Our best attacking players are our floaty AMs - Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana and Teixeira (not Ibe yet). Build around them i.e. get them playing in central positions, not out wide. The only way this happens is through a diamond - there just isn't another formation that accommodates them at present.

This means getting Benteke off the ball, and making Coutinho and Firmino the centre of our atttack.

Basically this:

--------------Coutinho
-------Firmino--------Benteke

This brings the best out of Coutinho, and Firmino gets ample opportunity on the ball. Playing him out wide is a major major mistake. This also lets you bring in Sturridge or Ings for Benteke seamlessly. It also lets you try Benteke and Sturridge together if you want to.

2. The 4-4-2 diamond is a narrow formation, and that's going to be a problem against teams who clog the centre like West Ham did against us.

That said, what we played against West Ham wasn't a 4-4-2 diamond but a 4-3-3 with Benteke as a pivot. That's a terrible idea - because the way you beat a team which clogs the centre is by using your full-backs to stretch the pitch, and filling your own centre with quick, technical, slithery players. What I would've done against West Ham was - taken off Benteke completely. Brought on Ings and pushed him up top with Firmino. Put Coutinho behind them. Moreno instead of Gomez to stretch the pitch down the left

The likes of Winston Reid will defend against Benteke all day long. Benteke can't turn and slip past them - he doesn't have that trickery or quickness. Ings/Sturridge and Firmino would've been a different proposition altogether, especially if we had the ability to stretch the pitch down both flanks.

If I wanted to be even more attacking, I would've taken off Lucas for Ibe and gone with a proper 4-4-2. The basic point being to fill the side with smaller, quicker and more technical players.

3. Use Benteke against teams which have soft CB pairings. He's ideal for the Mancs who'll play Smalling and Blind at CBs - easy to bully.

Use the diamond against them - I don't mind being narrow against the Mancs - their full-backs are quite decent, so trying to stretch the play against them isn't going to yield much dividend. Go with this:

--------------Firmino
-------Ings--------Benteke

Two forwards to keep their CBs occupied, and our most creative player behind them through the centre.

I'd also drop Lucas - we need to go for the jugular against the Mancs - they aren't very good, and are as brittle mentally as us. This game will go to the side which backs itself and is more aggressive.

So this'll be my side:

---------------------------Mignolet
Clyne---------Skrtel---------------Sakho-------Gomez
-----------------------------Can
--------------Henderson---------Milner
--------------------------Firmino
------------------Ings-------------Benteke

4. Get Teixeira into the squad asap. With Lallana injured, and Markovic out on loan, we need someone to deputise for Coutinho. Teixeira is more ready for first team action than Ibe IMO.
 
dmishra said:
A few things.

1. We need to STOP building the attack around Benteke. It's difficult when you've spent 32.5 million on him, but he's not our best attacking asset. Our best attacking players are our floaty AMs - Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana and Teixeira (not Ibe yet). Build around them i.e. get them playing in central positions, not out wide. The only way this happens is through a diamond - there just isn't another formation that accommodates them at present.

This means getting Benteke off the ball, and making Coutinho and Firmino the centre of our atttack.

Basically this:

--------------Coutinho
-------Firmino--------Benteke

This brings the best out of Coutinho, and Firmino gets ample opportunity on the ball. Playing him out wide is a major major mistake. This also lets you bring in Sturridge or Ings for Benteke seamlessly. It also lets you try Benteke and Sturridge together if you want to.

2. The 4-4-2 diamond is a narrow formation, and that's going to be a problem against teams who clog the centre like West Ham did against us.

That said, what we played against West Ham wasn't a 4-4-2 diamond but a 4-3-3 with Benteke as a pivot. That's a terrible idea - because the way you beat a team which clogs the centre is by using your full-backs to stretch the pitch, and filling your own centre with quick, technical, slithery players. What I would've done against West Ham was - taken off Benteke completely. Brought on Ings and pushed him up top with Firmino. Put Coutinho behind them. Moreno instead of Gomez to stretch the pitch down the left

The likes of Winston Reid will defend against Benteke all day long. Benteke can't turn and slip past them - he doesn't have that trickery or quickness. Ings/Sturridge and Firmino would've been a different proposition altogether, especially if we had the ability to stretch the pitch down both flanks.

If I wanted to be even more attacking, I would've taken off Lucas for Ibe and gone with a proper 4-4-2. The basic point being to fill the side with smaller, quicker and more technical players.

3. Use Benteke against teams which have soft CB pairings. He's ideal for the Mancs who'll play Smalling and Blind at CBs - easy to bully.

Use the diamond against them - I don't mind being narrow against the Mancs - their full-backs are quite decent, so trying to stretch the play against them isn't going to yield much dividend. Go with this:

--------------Firmino
-------Ings--------Benteke

Two forwards to keep their CBs occupied, and our most creative player behind them through the centre.

I'd also drop Lucas - we need to go for the jugular against the Mancs - they aren't very good, and are as brittle mentally as us. This game will go to the side which backs itself and is more aggressive.

So this'll be my side:

---------------------------Mignolet
Clyne---------Skrtel---------------Sakho-------Gomez
-----------------------------Can
--------------Henderson---------Milner
--------------------------Firmino
------------------Ings-------------Benteke

4. Get Teixeira into the squad asap. With Lallana injured, and Markovic out on loan, we need someone to deputise for Coutinho. Teixeira is more ready for first team action than Ibe IMO.
Click to expand...

So in brief, you agree with the team I picked at the top of the thread.
 
Yes, in respect of the game against the Mancs. The rest of the post probably belongs in another thread - sorry.
 
Must win ? More like 'must try and draw'. After west ham i see no difference in us since last season.
 
If we play two up front, then surely the success of that formation, given one of the two is Benteke, revolves around width - which in a 442 diamond means the fullbacks getting high up the pitch to create attacking width. That in turn really needs 2 midfielders to sit deep and protect the space in behind advanced FB's.

While I get what @dmishra is suggesting we're not going to pay £30m+ for Benteke to act as a decoy to open up space for Coutinho, etc - because that's a waste of Benteke's ability and relying on Coutinho to provide enough goals to mount a top table challenge is a mistake.

Benteke was bought to put the ball in the back of the net - so we HAVE to play in a way that gets the best out of him.

That means width and crosses - but also getting attacking players close to him in the centre.

I think 4231 might suit us best. With 2 out of Can, Henderson, Allen & Lucas holding in the 2 central positions - Milner in the advanced central position and Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe & Firmino in the wider attacking positions - tucking in or going wide, with FB's providing additional support.

I think @Gene's 442 also works for us if we want to play Benteke & Ings or Firmino pushed up close to him.

I think Firmino works up front if you want a mobile forward to create space for deeper attackers.

But then.... I'm not a football manager [emoji12]
 
"Floaty AMs" - i hate the term and I hate the player unless you're David Silva level. That sort of player still needs to be contributing goals as well as assists (double figures in each).. and generally, in this league, you can get away with 1, not 3.

It should be one of Coutinho/Firmino/Lallana, unless one of them are order to stay wide and keep width before coming inside. It's easy to defend against players who are always taking up narrow positions. Even more so, when like on Sunday you have Gomez (as good as he's been), not going on the overlap and not being able to cross off his left foot.

Saturday was a game we needed a Moreno at full back or an Ibe at winger. A bit of pace, something different. Not 2 players trying to do the same thing on both sides (Firmino/Coutinho).

As for United, well we'll need to be compact and play on the counter. Similar to the job we did at the Emirates. Therefore I'd pick the same lineup as that game and just bring in Henderson for Coutinho and move Milner higher up, closer to Benteke.
 
I hope Teixeira gets a chance. I think he's got a bright future, and besides, it's not like he's got anything to lose at this point.
 
leftpeg said:
Assuming they're all fit I'd go with:

Mignolet
Clyne
Skrtel
Sakho
Gomez

Can
Henderson
Milner

Firmino

Ings
Benteke

Bench: Bogdan, Moreno, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Origi, Sturridge
Click to expand...


I'd have Lucas over Can personally but agree with the rest. Lovren need binning (i'd think we'd have a CB on the bench but that is splitting hairs) for sure. I'd love for Ings to get a start, having a second striker also takes some of the pressure off the team from always having to look for Benteke which I think has led to too much punting forward already this season.

I'd have no concerns with Sakho starting his first game of the season against the Mancs when Rooney is their only striker and they have been so rusty so far this season.
 
I agree we need to go 2 up top and right now thats Benteke and Ings I guess. Firmino at the tip of a diamond with Can at the base to drop into the defense when the full backs push on. The push their full backs on at every opportunity and that leaves massive gaps particularly on the left where Shaw is a bit of a slouch getting back, if we can get Benteke to drop into that space and pull Blind out of position he will easily dominate him in the air and bring Ings and Firmino into play from deep.

Of course there is no legislating for the likes of Lovren completely gifting them a goalscoring opportunity but for my money thats the way we need to set up to beat them. We cant be too gung ho, they will have a lot of the ball but VanGaal is overly cautious so as long was we make them play in front of us we should be able to frustrate them. Id happily stay compact for the first 10 - 15 mins and get a foothold in the game then start pressing more aggressively further up the pitch when they crowd start getting on the backs.
 
I wouldn't trust Lovren or Sakho. I'd give Gomez the nod at CB. He's not a complete novice and he's done very well at Stoke and Arsenal albeit in the LB role.

..........................................Mignolet.......................................
Clyne...................Skrtel....................Gomez...................Moreno
..............................................Can.......................................
....................Milner..................................Henderson...................
..........................................Firmino........................................
..........................Benteke..................Ings..................................
 
Lovren in for Moreno and Gomez out wide instead and its probably the team.

Lets hope Hendo is fit.

We all know Rooney will start scoring again in this game.
 
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