Bye bye Kenny (part 2)!!!!!

[mark1975]

I said a while back, I do think we're only a couple of BIG signings short, whether we can identify the quality we need is another matter, but the results have largely been marginal. I don't think the luck thing has been a huge factor, I think it stops being bad luck when it happens every week, sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say you're not good enough or you lack that player or two who might have put that chance away.

I do think there are issues, tactically and in terms of personnel, but we've not gone into many games and been out played, we've gone into alot of games and either struggled to penetrate or to convert (or both) and invited the inevitable conceded goal as confidence has dwindled over the course of 90 minutes and the pressure to score has led to us thinking and trying too hard.

The causes for optimism are our games against the big sides (for the most part), the last few months of last season and our cup performances. The worries are our transfer activity and a baffling tendency to once again over complicate line ups and struggle to forge partnerships and a winning formula. If Kenny can cut out the Rafa/Ged-isms of being stubborn and having too many blind spots then he might overcome the set back of this season. It's a big ask but he has the experience and know-how and will hopefully learn by his mistakes and the struggles of returning to a highly competitive English Premiership.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I don't get this attitude that if we won the FA cup he can stay another year but if we don't he goes.

It's nonsense, it's one fucking game.

 

[Fabio]

For me, the "big games" and "cup games" you speak of make me think kenny can motivate a squad for a cup/glory, but not over a season.

Last season we played better because we played with better players. Mereiles late runs to help in the attack opened up space to exploit. Same with maxi. Suarez had a partner up top with kuyt.

Our continued league results success last season was down to movement and space, something which kenny has tried to say rifice this year. Selling mereiles, dropping maxi, playing a lone striker, persisting with weak links.

Yes it's rare we are outplayed, but most of our chances are of suarez creation and execution. We miss so many because suarez is shooting from dickhead angles because he rarely has support. We create chances but I don't believe half of them are "clear cut "

I'm still "happy" (for want of a better word) for kenny to try and rectify this, but if by December our league position is poor (7th or below), then I'll be a lot more vocal about sacking him.

 

[Fabio]

I don't get this attitude that if we won the FA cup he can stay another year but if we don't he goes.

It's nonsense, it's one fucking game.

Correct.

If it's a baffling selection ill be fucked off though.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

you're a-ok fabioita

 

[Modo]

I don't get this attitude that if we won the FA cup he can stay another year but if we don't he goes.

It's nonsense, it's one fucking game.

I agree but maybe for the wrong reasons.

 

[spider-Neil]

the thing that really annoys me more than anything reading some posts on this forum is the notion that the people that support kenny and want him to continue are;
a) happy with our poor results
b) blind to the mistakes he has made this season
and c) living in the past.

 

[Fabio]

the thing that really annoys me more than anything reading some posts on this forum is the notion that the people that support kenny and want him to continue are;
a) happy with our poor results
b) blind to the mistakes he has made this season
and c) living in the past.

And people who don't like him are sky generation fair weather fans who want instant success

It cuts both ways neil, so be less indignant

 

[Rosco]

I don't get this attitude that if we won the FA cup he can stay another year but if we don't he goes.

It's nonsense, it's one fucking game.

Thank you.

Its more likely to be decided by factors outside Kennys control like bad refereeing, luck, a penalty shoot out than anything he can control.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

And people who don't like him are sky generation fair weather fans who want instant success

It cuts both ways neil, so be less indignant

and don't forget the microwave generation stuff too.

 

[westred]

the thing that really annoys me more than anything reading some posts on this forum is the notion that the people that support kenny and want him to continue are;
a) happy with our poor results
b) blind to the mistakes he has made this season
and c) living in the past.

Wow this is just wrong on so many levels. I`m not happy with the league form but all managers unless they are completely useless like Woy deserve more than one season. Yes Kenny has made mistakes show me a manager that doesnt but don`t forget he has also guided us to two cup finals.

And finally I don`t live in the past, like all true Reds I respect our history and Kenny is a massive part of this club. As much as defeats hurt us supporters, I`m sure they hurt the great man even more and he will work hard to ensure we are more consistent next season.

A quote from Uncle Bob on Kenny

"I just hoped that after the trials and tribulations of my early years in management, someone up high would smile on me and guide my hand. My plea was answered when we got Kenny Dalglish. What a player, what a great professional!"

Anyway for all the Kenny doubters I have a quick question, who do want to replace him with and why?

 

[Fabio]

Klopp, emery, conte has made a good case, pep(!), Deschamps, loew, bielsa.

As I've said, another season to sort his shit, but by December if we're still jarg then the trigger has to be pulled.

 

[Fabio]

Oh, and it's because all those managers have a plan B, or get their teams play sexy attacking football. All seem good motivators and all have recent experience at the top.

Obviously some might have questions marks over them, but at the minute all have less questions.. Barkston over them than kenny.

I'll add avb too. He's young, but he could build a hell of a team.

 

[westred]

Klopp, emery, conte has made a good case, pep(!), Deschamps, loew, bielsa.

As I've said, another season to sort his shit, but by December if we're still jarg then the trigger has to be pulled.

Find it unreal that a fellow red would talk about Kenny this way "sort his shit" "trigger has to be pulled" the man no matter what happens deserves more respect.

 

[westred]

I was waiting for AVB`s name to show up, he was found out at Chelsea the man was nothing but pure ego...Getting the players to celebrate a goal with him, was a pure joke

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

What a weird analogy.

No, it's more like talking about it with your wife when the kids arent around and have no knowledge of your concerns.

My sentiments exactly Keni.

 

[Hansern]

I think of course Kenny deserves our respect for everything he has done for the club.
But when it comes to being our manager, we cant let him get 12 extra months on the merit of who he is and what he has done for us.
That should be an evalution of the current season. League, transfers, cups and progress. At the moment cups is the only part were he has exceeded our expectations.

League form and final standing will be horrendous. A catastroph even when you think about the stature of our club.

Transfers: pretty average, but overall I would say decent. Some good signings have been made, but the buy British policy has fucked us royaly up the arse. Downing, Carroll and Henderson = 70 mill £.
Papiss Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye = 20 mill £.
We've blown away a lot of money on transfers that give us little chance of recouping if neccesary. There have been plenty of transfer bargains out there but we have acted very amateruish this season.

Progress: this is the part were I'm very confused about what to think. A year ago we were flying in the league, only 2 teams better point wise since Christmas and the future was bright. Now, we're a shambles in the league, the home form is dreadful and tbh I think we've gone backwards.
Imho we dismantled some of the parts of the team that DID work last season, and replaced with some that dont work.
To much tinkering and uneccessary changes.

Progress have been made in the cups of course, but to many times this season our players havent turned up. And that is a real worry.

So, what Im getting at is, can Kenny turn it around. Does he have the ideas and plans that could change us in to title contenders next season. Can he see what we're missing and add the players that will give us the balance we need.
I know we're a work in progress yada yada yada, but at the end of the day we have badly underperformed. Badly.

Even if we win the FA cup tomorrow, I'm not sure he should stay on. I love the man to death, but thinking with your heart and not your head in this situation wont take us forward.

Stability is all well and good, but its the lack of progress that really concerns me.

 

[localny]

We played so well last season under kenny. If we could just get that back. He does have it tactically - i would love to see what he could do with a few strikers and wingers of quality

 

[spider-Neil]

Wow this is just wrong on so many levels. I`m not happy with the league form but all managers unless they are completely useless like Woy deserve more than one season. Yes Kenny has made mistakes show me a manager that doesnt but don`t forget he has also guided us to two cup finals.

And finally I don`t live in the past, like all true Reds I respect our history and Kenny is a massive part of this club. As much as defeats hurt us supporters, I`m sure they hurt the great man even more and he will work hard to ensure we are more consistent next season.

A quote from Uncle Bob on Kenny

"I just hoped that after the trials and tribulations of my early years in management, someone up high would smile on me and guide my hand. My plea was answered when we got Kenny Dalglish. What a player, what a great professional!"

Anyway for all the Kenny doubters I have a quick question, who do want to replace him with and why?

erm, I'm a support and I don't like the assumptions I listed.

 

[Fabio]

Find it unreal that a fellow red would talk about Kenny this way "sort his shit" "trigger has to be pulled" the man no matter what happens deserves more respect.

Well he does need to sort his shit. Our league campaign fell apart since January.

What's the things I hear about 1 man being bigger than the club?

He needs to work out his problems on and off the pitch.

I respect the man and what he's done for us, but what he's doing now I don't respect or agree with.

 

[localny]

I know its a view commonly derided but so many games we lost because of a lack of finishing. What surely happens then after a series of games where this happens is a malaise that spreads to other areas of play. Had we shaded those matches with a poacher or a flair player we'd have more momentum, confidence and a press that praised the second coming. You cannot underestimate what the impact of losing to teams because he don't have any bite up front can do to a season. Its a killer. We are closer than we think.

 

[Gary25]

I think of course Kenny deserves our respect for everything he has done for the club.
But when it comes to being our manager, we cant let him get 12 extra months on the merit of who he is and what he has done for us.
That should be an evalution of the current season. League, transfers, cups and progress. At the moment cups is the only part were he has exceeded our expectations.

League form and final standing will be horrendous. A catastroph even when you think about the stature of our club.

Transfers: pretty average, but overall I would say decent. Some good signings have been made, but the buy British policy has fucked us royaly up the arse. Downing, Carroll and Henderson = 70 mill £.
Papiss Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye = 20 mill £.
We've blown away a lot of money on transfers that give us little chance of recouping if neccesary. There have been plenty of transfer bargains out there but we have acted very amateruish this season.

Progress: this is the part were I'm very confused about what to think. A year ago we were flying in the league, only 2 teams better point wise since Christmas and the future was bright. Now, we're a shambles in the league, the home form is dreadful and tbh I think we've gone backwards.
Imho we dismantled some of the parts of the team that DID work last season, and replaced with some that dont work.
To much tinkering and uneccessary changes.

Progress have been made in the cups of course, but to many times this season our players havent turned up. And that is a real worry.

So, what Im getting at is, can Kenny turn it around. Does he have the ideas and plans that could change us in to title contenders next season. Can he see what we're missing and add the players that will give us the balance we need.
I know we're a work in progress yada yada yada, but at the end of the day we have badly underperformed. Badly.

Even if we win the FA cup tomorrow, I'm not sure he should stay on. I love the man to death, but thinking with your heart and not your head in this situation wont take us forward.

Stability is all well and good, but its the lack of progress that really concerns me.

Great post, couldn't agree more.

 

[westred]

I think of course Kenny deserves our respect for everything he has done for the club.
But when it comes to being our manager, we cant let him get 12 extra months on the merit of who he is and what he has done for us.
That should be an evalution of the current season. League, transfers, cups and progress. At the moment cups is the only part were he has exceeded our expectations.

League form and final standing will be horrendous. A catastroph even when you think about the stature of our club.

Transfers: pretty average, but overall I would say decent. Some good signings have been made, but the buy British policy has fucked us royaly up the arse. Downing, Carroll and Henderson = 70 mill £.
Papiss Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye = 20 mill £.
We've blown away a lot of money on transfers that give us little chance of recouping if neccesary. There have been plenty of transfer bargains out there but we have acted very amateruish this season.

Progress: this is the part were I'm very confused about what to think. A year ago we were flying in the league, only 2 teams better point wise since Christmas and the future was bright. Now, we're a shambles in the league, the home form is dreadful and tbh I think we've gone backwards.
Imho we dismantled some of the parts of the team that DID work last season, and replaced with some that dont work.
To much tinkering and uneccessary changes.

Progress have been made in the cups of course, but to many times this season our players havent turned up. And that is a real worry.

So, what Im getting at is, can Kenny turn it around. Does he have the ideas and plans that could change us in to title contenders next season. Can he see what we're missing and add the players that will give us the balance we need.
I know we're a work in progress yada yada yada, but at the end of the day we have badly underperformed. Badly.

Even if we win the FA cup tomorrow, I'm not sure he should stay on. I love the man to death, but thinking with your heart and not your head in this situation wont take us forward.

Stability is all well and good, but its the lack of progress that really concerns me.

I disagree with most of this post, it is unrealistic to expect us to challenge for the title next season, we nearly went into administration a short while ago and takes time to recover.

Also all great club are build on Stabiltly, that is how Liverpool dominated the 70`s/80`s and United the 90`s/00`s without a stable foundation a club just deals in the short term. Kenny is buliding for the future, the whole structure of the club now is stable from the owners, manager to the academy and changing manager would be a wrong move.

Also everyone is raving about Newcastle they are this season`s "one season wonders" and will find there level again next year, have seen them in action and they are overhyped and had a lifetime of luck this year.

We will worse than the likes of Chelsea if we sack a manager for doing a cup double.

 

[Fabio]

Yes it's unrealistic to expect a title challenge. Honestly I think we're 10 years away from challenging.

But it's not unrealistic after 100m of investment to expect to be higher than we are. Henderson,coates and Carroll for the future, suarez adam Enrique Bellamy and downing are for NOW.

He is a cup manager.

 

[Modo]

I disagree with most of this post, it is unrealistic to expect us to challenge for the title next season, we nearly went into administration a short while ago and takes time to recover.

Also all great club are build on Stabiltly, that is how Liverpool dominated the 70`s/80`s and United the 90`s/00`s without a stable foundation a club just deals in the short term. Kenny is buliding for the future, the whole structure of the club now is stable from the owners, manager to the academy and changing manager would be a wrong move.

Also everyone is raving about Newcastle they are this season`s "one season wonders" and will find there level again next year, have seen them in action and they are overhyped and had a lifetime of luck this year.

We will worse than the likes of Chelsea if we sack a manager for doing a cup double.

If Kenny is building for the future how is it that Carragher is still playing when Coates is around?
OK, let me rephrase that. How is it that Carragher, who's been pretty much below par the entire season, is still playing while Coates who's done pretty well, is on the bench?

Why aren't Suso and Adorjan getting their much deserved chance in the first team?

Regarding Newcastle being "one season wonders", if they build on this and somehow keep their players, they'll be a strong force next season.

Yes it's unrealistic to expect a title challenge. Honestly I think we're 10 years away from challenging.

But it's not unrealistic after 100m of investment to expect to be higher than we are. Henderson,coates and Carroll for the future, suarez adam Enrique Bellamy and downing are for NOW.

He is a cup manager.

I loved this comment by Kenny:

‘There is an obsession with the Premier League simply because of what it holds for every club and the value financially for every club, the rewards you get for finishing in the top four and getting into the Champions League,’ said the Scot.
‘But there is a satisfaction from winning a cup competition which you don’t get from finishing fifth or sixth in the league.

I'd ask Kenny supporters here who are quick to mention our cup win(s) this season if they'd be happy with a mid-table finish every season as long as we win the league cup or the fa cup, but it's a stupid question.

 

[Fabio]

Liverpool exists to win trophies, but all trophies aren't equal

The premiership and big ears. They matter. Everything else less so.

 

[Oncy]

If Kenny is building for the future how is it that Carragher is still playing when Coates is around?
OK, let me rephrase that. How is it that Carragher, who's been pretty much below par the entire season, is still playing while Coates who's done pretty well, is on the bench?

Why aren't Suso and Adorjan getting their much deserved chance in the first team?

Regarding Newcastle being "one season wonders", if they build on this and somehow keep their players, they'll be a strong force next season.



I loved this comment by Kenny:




I'd ask Kenny supporters here who are quick to mention our cup win(s) this season if they'd be happy with a mid-table finish every season as long as we win the league cup or the fa cup, but it's a stupid question.

Doesnt normally stop you.

 

[Modo]

Ive improved

 

[KopKing]

Hodgson aside, have we become a club that sacks a manager every year? Is that truly the way to progress? No matter who replaces Kenny, he wont win the league next year and its unlikely he'll make two cup finals. What then? Sack him too? Its conceivable that King Kenny could win more trophies this season than any manager in the Top 4 bar Fergie and Wenger in English football and he's only been back a year and a bit, yet there are posters who want him sacked? I'm with Westred on this there is a distinct lack of respect. We almost went into Administration 2 seasons ago yet people are clamouring for top 4.

 

[Fabio]

I said many times

Many many many times

I don't expect atitle challenge for years

I want to see improvements on the pitch, I want to see a plan B if plan a isn't working, I want to see some semblance of tactics!

Again, something I've said many many times... He should get another year.

Why didn't Roy get longer? Results and shit interviews. He should have got longer to sort his shit out if kenny deserves longer.

I'm not arsed anyway. I want him to improve and be a success. After Tomorrow this season is done.