Damien Comolli

[Judge Jules]

I agree, but the time factor is a problem. Finding the right man won't be an easy or a quick process, not if we really want to make sure we've sounded out all those who would be suitable and might be interested, whether or not they're currently employed. Do NESV stick with Roy in the meantime and give him money to spend in January? Or will the money go to Comolli to spend?

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211183#msg1211183 date=1288859182]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42566.msg1211177#msg1211177 date=1288858402]
I don't think anybody is making the argument that continental DOF + manager system is intrinsically better than the traditional British system yes, there are mate..
Even is somebody is, I don't think it's a debate worth having right now. We know that both systems can work and can backfire. In both cases it basically boils down to hiring the right people.

I don't give any credence to the list of the Rafa "rumored signings". I can judge people only on what they did, not on what they supposedly wanted. Also it's unfair on many levels to compare the list of players Comolli HAS ACTUALLY SIGNED while in Tottenham to Rafa's rumored wish list in charge of Liverpool. For one thing, Tottenham is no Real Madrid, to have actually convinced top class talents like Berbatov and Modric to come to North London is an accomplishment is not at all the same as to dream of signing Benzema and Villa. Nobody knows if Comolli would have bought Reina and Torres has he been in charge of Liverpool at the time. He bought Gomez and Bent - both quality players BTW - because those were the players that Tottenham could realistically compete for at the time. And I wouldn't use Bentley as an example of the DOF's incompetence - rather an example of a lack of communication between manager and the transfer specialist who bought an expensive player that the manager didn't need or want to use. the list of non-signings wasmerely intended to show that a manager isn't necessariyl always about the short-term, as long as he's given credit for acting in the long-term. benitez's complaints re: arsenal getting the best youngsters is pretty solid proof of that, as are ferguson's and wenger's records. so you think bentley's only problem at spurs has been his place in ramos's plans? what about redknapp's use of him? you've got no reservations about him being £15m worth of footballer?

I don't think anybody's complaints and whining should be proof of anything. Especially Rafa's complaining about rivals - I would take it with a big pitcher of salt.

As for Bentley, at 15 million 2 years ago he is just as overpriced as 26 million James Milner is today. So? There were and there always be clubs willing to spend extra money on buying home-grown players. I don't think I would hear too much complaining here if we spent 15 million on Bentley 2 years ago. Even those who don't rate him as a player would welcome it as a "sign of our ambition".
[/quote]
[/quote]

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42566.msg1211184#msg1211184 date=1288859191]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211170#msg1211170 date=1288856781]
Anyways, I think it's important for us to bring in the right manager for Comolli to work with as soon as possible.
[/quote]

Agree, I think in the end it boils down to this. We will be successful only if we have a strong and smart manager who will hold his own against the DOFS, the owners, and the players.
[/quote]

As long as we have appointed this guy as a DOF, we need a manager who knows what circumstances he will be working under. He should have a clear and open mind on what his position is, as well as the DOF should only appoint a manager who is matching his ideas on how we are to play. To have a DOF whos idea is to have a long ball system, and filling the squad with players capable of this will not help a manager who likes pass and move...

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42566.msg1211180#msg1211180 date=1288858626]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=42566.msg1211149#msg1211149 date=1288853361]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=42566.msg1211124#msg1211124 date=1288844621]
I think his record looks good. Why Alan Sugar doesnt rate him is probably nothing to do with his ability as a scout.

I wonder if we are going for a french manager too? Deschamps?
[/quote]

I'm thinking that Loew fits the mould perfectly.
[/quote]

Why? He is not someone who really trusts young players. The only reason he played Ozil and Khedira in the WC was because Ballack and Rolfes were injured. He was lucky to preside of the rise of the new young generation of German football, but he himself had very little to do with it.
[/quote]

In international football experience is a much bigger factor than in club football so I can understand him wanting to keep some in his team. However the average age of his last squad was only 24,5 so to say he doesn't trust youth is a bit odd I think. He's a very intelligent guy and relatively young so to me he would be a perfect fit for a long project like ours. Of course I'm only guessing he wouldn't mind working with a DOF by his side and the truth might be very different.

 

[Hansern]

NESV is known to be concerned about Liverpool’s squad and Comolli’s recruitment is likely to lead to the departure of Eduardo Macia, the club’s chief scout

I like this part..

 

[Y1]

Wow, this thread is turning into whether the manager is the boss (Fergie) or the coach (Guardiola).

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42566.msg1211188#msg1211188 date=1288859850]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211183#msg1211183 date=1288859182]
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42566.msg1211177#msg1211177 date=1288858402]
I don't think anybody is making the argument that continental DOF + manager system is intrinsically better than the traditional British system yes, there are mate..
Even is somebody is, I don't think it's a debate worth having right now. We know that both systems can work and can backfire. In both cases it basically boils down to hiring the right people.

I don't give any credence to the list of the Rafa "rumored signings". I can judge people only on what they did, not on what they supposedly wanted. Also it's unfair on many levels to compare the list of players Comolli HAS ACTUALLY SIGNED while in Tottenham to Rafa's rumored wish list in charge of Liverpool. For one thing, Tottenham is no Real Madrid, to have actually convinced top class talents like Berbatov and Modric to come to North London is an accomplishment is not at all the same as to dream of signing Benzema and Villa. Nobody knows if Comolli would have bought Reina and Torres has he been in charge of Liverpool at the time. He bought Gomez and Bent - both quality players BTW - because those were the players that Tottenham could realistically compete for at the time. And I wouldn't use Bentley as an example of the DOF's incompetence - rather an example of a lack of communication between manager and the transfer specialist who bought an expensive player that the manager didn't need or want to use. the list of non-signings wasmerely intended to show that a manager isn't necessariyl always about the short-term, as long as he's given credit for acting in the long-term. benitez's complaints re: arsenal getting the best youngsters is pretty solid proof of that, as are ferguson's and wenger's records. so you think bentley's only problem at spurs has been his place in ramos's plans? what about redknapp's use of him? you've got no reservations about him being £15m worth of footballer?

I don't think anybody's complaints and whining should be proof of anything. Especially Rafa's complaining about rivals - I would take it with a big pitcher of salt.

As for Bentley, at 15 million 2 years ago he is just as overpriced as 26 million James Milner is today. So? There were and there always be clubs willing to spend extra money on buying home-grown players. I don't think I would hear too much complaining here if we spent 15 million on Bentley 2 years ago. Even those who don't rate him as a player would welcome it as a "sign of our ambition".
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]


1. the point is, there's plenty of evidence that traditional managers are willing to act in the long-term, and that it doesn't need a DOF to do so. whether benitez did himself isn't really relevant, but FWIW i don't see any requirement at all for the 'pitcher of salt'. there's the huge youth recruitment drive, the revamps of the academy, the desperate struggle to gain control of that academy, and *imo*, the many young players linked but not signed and the calls for the club to compete with arsenal for the likes of diaby & denilson. even if you want to discount the last point - for whatever reason - i'm not sure how you can disregard the others!

2. i don't know where you're going with the bentley thing - was he a good signing at £15m or not? that's what his job was: get good quality for good value. i'm saying he failed. whether or not the signing might have been welcomed is completely irrelevant - unless of course you're similarly forgiving of benitez for the babel and keane transfers given that the vast majority of fans were pleased at the time. these people are paid to know more than the fans!

 

[Oncy]

How can the new structure be any worse?
When was the last time we signed a young player that made us all 'Wow'

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42566.msg1211199#msg1211199 date=1288862078]
How can the new structure be any worse?
When was the last time we signed a young player that made us all 'Wow'
[/quote]

Torres. Alonso. Mascherano.

But the point is not that the player is young, but that he is value for the money spent.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42566.msg1211199#msg1211199 date=1288862078]
How can the new structure be any worse?
When was the last time we signed a young player that made us all 'Wow'
[/quote]


the point i'm making is was that the problem with the structure or was it something else? does anyone seriously doubt benitez wanted to sign, say, walcott? that's a wow signing on a par with anything comolli managed with spurs.

also, i'd argue that the new structure could just be the old spurs structure which seems worse than the new structure which is the same as our old structure, y'know.

 

[RolandG]

Each system mentioned has its pitfalls. However, the new system should be given a chance before any premature judgements are made. Let's look at the quality of players that will be brought in.

Comolli has a fantastic reputation and looking at what Roy brought in at the last minute, I'm more than relieved to have someone else identifying talent.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211212#msg1211212 date=1288863684]
Each system mentioned has its pitfalls. However, the new system should be given a chance before any premature judgements are made. Let's look at the quality of players that will be brought in.

Comolli has a fantastic reputation and looking at what Roy brought in at the last minute, I'm more than relieved to have someone else identifying talent.
[/quote]

Wether it the right decision to hire Comolli or not, I think it necessary to a "board" of people deciding on who we wisely spend money on and not. Poulsen, Konchesky and Maxi would probably not gone through the eye of the needle. Lucas would probably been the perfect match? Either way we as a club clearly can benefit from assessing the prospects with a broader eye than today. And for Hodgson gabbling on about he has the final word, I can guarantee that it is not going to happen.

 

[RolandG]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211216#msg1211216 date=1288863921]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211212#msg1211212 date=1288863684]
Each system mentioned has its pitfalls. However, the new system should be given a chance before any premature judgements are made. Let's look at the quality of players that will be brought in.

Comolli has a fantastic reputation and looking at what Roy brought in at the last minute, I'm more than relieved to have someone else identifying talent.
[/quote]

Wether it the right decision to hire Comolli or not, I think it necessary to a "board" of people deciding on who we wisely spend money on and not. Poulsen, Konchesky and Maxi would probably not gone through the eye of the needle. Lucas would probably been the perfect match? Either way we as a club clearly can benefit from assessing the prospects with a broader eye than today. And for Hodgson gabbling on about he has the final word, I can guarantee that it is not going to happen.
[/quote]

Rafa would have thrived in this system. Didn't Valencia have a similar set up?

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211220#msg1211220 date=1288864118]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211216#msg1211216 date=1288863921]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211212#msg1211212 date=1288863684]
Each system mentioned has its pitfalls. However, the new system should be given a chance before any premature judgements are made. Let's look at the quality of players that will be brought in.

Comolli has a fantastic reputation and looking at what Roy brought in at the last minute, I'm more than relieved to have someone else identifying talent.
[/quote]

Wether it the right decision to hire Comolli or not, I think it necessary to a "board" of people deciding on who we wisely spend money on and not. Poulsen, Konchesky and Maxi would probably not gone through the eye of the needle. Lucas would probably been the perfect match? Either way we as a club clearly can benefit from assessing the prospects with a broader eye than today. And for Hodgson gabbling on about he has the final word, I can guarantee that it is not going to happen.
[/quote]

Rafa would have thrived in this system. Didn't Valencia have a similar set up?
[/quote]

Nah. Valencia, as Real Madrid, has 1 sports drector who buys players.And how they adress the managers wishlist or not I dont know.

The whole problem is that most good managers are where they are because they are stubborn strong guys. And all of them want the final word 😉

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42566.msg1211099#msg1211099 date=1288834664]

Hodgson is adamant his authority has not been undermined by Comolli's appointment and dismissed concerns that Tottenham's former troubles could be replicated at Anfield. Asked whether he retained the final say on signings, the manager replied: "I do, yes. We will have to wait and see, I suppose, but there is no reason for me not to believe that. I would be very surprised if managers and coaches of the class of Martin Jol and Juande Ramos just took players totally on somebody else's recommendation. It won't happen here. I don't think so anyway."

How Hodgson would react if a player was imposed on him is also to be determined. He said: "That is looking at something which I think is a positive appointment in a negative way. I can't imagine it happening, but who knows? Maybe it will and if that day comes, God forbid. I will deal with it but I'm not going to be spending any time concerning myself with it at the moment. It's certainly not the idea behind his appointment, I do know that for certain."

'Yeah its me. I definitely have final say on transfers. But we'll see. I might not. I'm not sure. God forbid. It won't happen here for sure. I know that much. I don't think so anyway. We'll see.'


[/quote]

Ha. If we're going to have a Director of Football, particularly one appointed after the manager, I think Hodgson is just about your best bet if you want a manager who won't rock the boat. Largely because he can't believe his luck he's in the job, and pretty much accepted the job under the proviso that we could sack him at little cost any time we see fit.

I think the problems may arise when Hodgson inevitably leaves and we appoint a manager of greater stature.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42566.msg1211226#msg1211226 date=1288864679]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42566.msg1211099#msg1211099 date=1288834664]

Hodgson is adamant his authority has not been undermined by Comolli's appointment and dismissed concerns that Tottenham's former troubles could be replicated at Anfield. Asked whether he retained the final say on signings, the manager replied: "I do, yes. We will have to wait and see, I suppose, but there is no reason for me not to believe that. I would be very surprised if managers and coaches of the class of Martin Jol and Juande Ramos just took players totally on somebody else's recommendation. It won't happen here. I don't think so anyway."

How Hodgson would react if a player was imposed on him is also to be determined. He said: "That is looking at something which I think is a positive appointment in a negative way. I can't imagine it happening, but who knows? Maybe it will and if that day comes, God forbid. I will deal with it but I'm not going to be spending any time concerning myself with it at the moment. It's certainly not the idea behind his appointment, I do know that for certain."

'Yeah its me. I definitely have final say on transfers. But we'll see. I might not. I'm not sure. God forbid. It won't happen here for sure. I know that much. I don't think so anyway. We'll see.'


[/quote]

Ha. If we're going to have a Director of Football, particularly one appointed after the manager, I think Hodgson is just about your best bet if you want a manager who won't rock the boat. Largely because he can't believe his luck he's in the job, and pretty much accepted the job under the proviso that we could sack him at little cost any time we see fit.

I think the problems may arise when Hodgson inevitably leaves and we appoint a manager of greater stature.
[/quote]

It's not just about stature. Ancelotti is a top-class manager who never, ever rocked the boat. That's the main reason why he could survive a boss like Berlusconi and why he is an ideal manager for a Russian oligarch.

 

[manwithnoname]

Comolli has signed some quality players. And certainly him being Director Of Football Strategy (whatever the fuck that means) will result in us signing fewer players like Crapsen, Konchesky, Jones, Carlton Cole et al.

Essentially anything that undermines Budgie and reduces his impact on who we buy and how we play has got to be good news.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42566.msg1211244#msg1211244 date=1288868743]
Comolli has signed some quality players. And certainly him being Director Of Football Strategy (whatever the fuck that means) will result in us signing fewer players like Crapsen, Konchesky, Jones, Carlton Cole et al.

Essentially anything that undermines Budgie and reduces his impact on who we buy and how we play has got to be good news.
[/quote]


ha, well that's not a bad bottom line to be fair.

but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?

 

[keniget]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211246#msg1211246 date=1288869099]
but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?
[/quote]

Why? Why would you care?

 

[manwithnoname]

but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?

I don't have a clue what his role is really. But the DOF role may impact upon the type of coach we would attract once we've got shut of Budgie.

Comolli certainly has form for getting managers the sack; Jol, Ramos, Roussy all left clubs he worked at. Jol was scathing about some of his purchases, and claimed players were signed without his permission, and that the squad was unbalanced. And his purchases were also under scrutiny when Ramos's disastrous reign imploded, which led to Levy sacking Comolli too.

 

[peterhague]

why would i care? isn't it obvious? i've got reservations about it. seemed that brendan did as well from his stance in a thread awhile back as well, hence the question.

 

[the count]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211247#msg1211247 date=1288869216]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211246#msg1211246 date=1288869099]
but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?
[/quote]

Why? Why would you care?

[/quote]

Because it's not the "English" way of doing things?

 

[Insignificance]

According to te Norwegian fanclubs website, Comolli will have all January transferplans ready discussed with Hodgson within 48 hours. Story from Echo.

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!

[/quote]

What?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=the count link=topic=42566.msg1211254#msg1211254 date=1288869793]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211247#msg1211247 date=1288869216]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211246#msg1211246 date=1288869099]
but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?
[/quote]

Why? Why would you care?

[/quote]

Because it's not the "English" way of doing things?
[/quote]


is that important though? surely we should be ready to embrace any method that improves us no matter where it comes from - your stance seems a bit reactionary if i'm honest.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211253#msg1211253 date=1288869514]
why would i care? isn't it obvious? i've got reservations about it. seemed that brendan did as well from his stance in a thread awhile back as well, hence the question.
[/quote]

It just seemed like you were implying that you'd give it a go, but only up until a point with the "fully down..." remark.

Why is it good enough for our European counterparts, but not for us?

We have more foreign players than English, we're more likely to employ a foreign manager than an English one... you'd think then that a foreign management structure wouldn't cause such reservations.

 

[manwithnoname]

The odds on Deschamps replacing Budgie might be shortening

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42566.msg1211252#msg1211252 date=1288869413]

but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?

I don't have a clue what his role is really. But the DOF role may impact upon the type of coach we would attract once we've got shut of Budgie.

Comolli certainly has form for getting managers the sack; Jol, Ramos, Roussy all left clubs he worked at. Jol was scathing about some of his purchases, and claimed players were signed without his permission, and that the squad was unbalanced. And his purchases were also under scrutiny when Ramos's disastrous reign imploded, which led to Levy sacking Comolli too.
[/quote]


Sounds like a car crash to me. More like a pileup actually

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211262#msg1211262 date=1288870356]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211253#msg1211253 date=1288869514]
why would i care? isn't it obvious? i've got reservations about it. seemed that brendan did as well from his stance in a thread awhile back as well, hence the question.
[/quote]

It just seemed like you were implying that you'd give it a go, but only up until a point with the "fully down..." remark.

Why is it good enough for our European counterparts, but not for us?

We have more foreign players than English, we're more likely to employ a foreign manager than an English one... you'd think then that a foreign management structure wouldn't cause such reservations.
[/quote]


erm tbh mate i thought i'd made my feelings pretty clear in my earlier posts. in short, no problem having someone in charge of youth recruitment and having an overall club policy on transfers that limits short-termism, but not at all convinced that a DOF should be in total control of transfers or that he should have any say in a 'footballing strategy' (whatever that means anyway - is it just a style of play or something more sophisticated than that?).

also, who says it 'works' for continental clubs? is it possible that our system is the better one, and that they'd do better to adopt ours? just a question.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42566.msg1211258#msg1211258 date=1288869985]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!

[/quote]

What?
[/quote]

I said:Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand! 8)

What I meant is that hComolli has been here a day only, and he supposed to have the tranferplan for January ready withn 48 hours. Whatis he basing that on? He must have a good idea on what we need, and who will be available in that position in January who is good value for the money?It sound to unrealstic. So I guess the meeting with Roy is just to discuss and rubbish what Roy wants, and then show that he has the final word from now. That there really is a new sheriff in town.