Damien Comolli

[keniget]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211267#msg1211267 date=1288870762]
erm tbh mate i thought i'd made my feelings pretty clear in my earlier posts. in short, no problem having someone in charge of youth recruitment and having an overall club policy on transfers that limits short-termism, but not at all convinced that a DOF should be in total control of transfers or that he should have any say in a 'footballing strategy' (whatever that means anyway - is it just a style of play or something more sophisticated than that?).

also, who says it 'works' for continental clubs? is it possible that our system is the better one, and that they'd do better to adopt ours? just a question.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I replied to your post as well saying I agree with a lot of the points you made and there is some cause for reservation. As with everything, it's all about having the right people in place.

The only reason I really responded to this recent post in the way that I did is that it seemed to me - perhaps mistakenly - that you were prepared to give it a chance, but ultimately for other reasons (perhaps traditional "English" values&quot😉 didn't want to see us embrace it fully.

 

[the count]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211259#msg1211259 date=1288870168]
[quote author=the count link=topic=42566.msg1211254#msg1211254 date=1288869793]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211247#msg1211247 date=1288869216]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211246#msg1211246 date=1288869099]
but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?
[/quote]

Why? Why would you care?

[/quote]

Because it's not the "English" way of doing things?
[/quote]


is that important though? surely we should be ready to embrace any method that improves us no matter where it comes from - your stance seems a bit reactionary if i'm honest.
[/quote]

Sorry Peter, that is not my opinion but I was speculating it was yours.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=the count link=topic=42566.msg1211273#msg1211273 date=1288871189]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211259#msg1211259 date=1288870168]
[quote author=the count link=topic=42566.msg1211254#msg1211254 date=1288869793]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42566.msg1211247#msg1211247 date=1288869216]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211246#msg1211246 date=1288869099]
but surely you wouldn't be too happy if we went fully down the director of football route would you?
[/quote]

Why? Why would you care?

[/quote]

Because it's not the "English" way of doing things?
[/quote]


is that important though? surely we should be ready to embrace any method that improves us no matter where it comes from - your stance seems a bit reactionary if i'm honest.
[/quote]

Sorry Peter, that is not my opinion but I was speculating it was yours.
[/quote]

thanks for trying to save me the bother of answering then! a massive stab in the dark, but worth a go i suppose.

 

[RolandG]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]
According to te Norwegian fanclubs website, Comolli will have all January transferplans ready discussed with Hodgson within 48 hours. Story from Echo.

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!
[/quote]

Insig, that's rubbish! Comolli is an old hand at his job and a pro. The weaknesses in our squad is glaring. Even an amateur can spot it. A striker, wingers and fullback/s in that order.

Comolli was employed and as a talent scout will have a ready made list of the talent out there. Its his job to be in the know.

The speed at which they are reportedly workingis great. Identify the targets, amke an offer and sign them as soon as the January window opens. The less opposition teams know about our targets, the better.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211288#msg1211288 date=1288873032]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]
According to te Norwegian fanclubs website, Comolli will have all January transferplans ready discussed with Hodgson within 48 hours. Story from Echo.

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!
[/quote]

Insig, that's rubbish! Comolli is an old hand at his job and a pro. The weaknesses in our squad is glaring. Even an amateur can spot it. A striker, wingers and fullback/s in that order.

Comolli was employed and as a talent scout will have a ready made list of the talent out there. Its his job to be in the know.

The speed at which they are reportedly workingis great. Identify the targets, amke an offer and sign them as soon as the January window opens. The less opposition teams know about our targets, the better.
[/quote]

An amateur can spot it maybe. We lets for gods fucking sake hope we are not hiring a new DOF to run the club like a black/white we need a winer attitude. I cant imagine that Hodgson and Comotelli even have an equal thought on who they want....

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211305#msg1211305 date=1288874788]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211288#msg1211288 date=1288873032]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]
According to te Norwegian fanclubs website, Comolli will have all January transferplans ready discussed with Hodgson within 48 hours. Story from Echo.

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!
[/quote]

Insig, that's rubbish! Comolli is an old hand at his job and a pro. The weaknesses in our squad is glaring. Even an amateur can spot it. A striker, wingers and fullback/s in that order.

Comolli was employed and as a talent scout will have a ready made list of the talent out there. Its his job to be in the know.

The speed at which they are reportedly workingis great. Identify the targets, amke an offer and sign them as soon as the January window opens. The less opposition teams know about our targets, the better.
[/quote]

An amateur can spot it maybe. We lets for gods fucking sake hope we are not hiring a new DOF to run the club like a black/white we need a winer attitude. I cant imagine that Hodgson and Comotelli even have an equal thought on who they want....
[/quote]

They don't need to as Hodgson probably doesn't have much say on who we buy.

And whats so special about winers and their attitudes?

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42566.msg1211307#msg1211307 date=1288875000]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211305#msg1211305 date=1288874788]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42566.msg1211288#msg1211288 date=1288873032]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42566.msg1211256#msg1211256 date=1288869898]
According to te Norwegian fanclubs website, Comolli will have all January transferplans ready discussed with Hodgson within 48 hours. Story from Echo.

Obviously noone can work that fast assesing through our squad, decide the weaknesses, analyse who is available/wanted and discuss these players unless he has been obsessed with our club and squad throughout the whole season (which I dont believe he has). Anyway it looks like the two cocks will have an early eye to eye to feel who has the upper hand!
[/quote]

Insig, that's rubbish! Comolli is an old hand at his job and a pro. The weaknesses in our squad is glaring. Even an amateur can spot it. A striker, wingers and fullback/s in that order.

Comolli was employed and as a talent scout will have a ready made list of the talent out there. Its his job to be in the know.

The speed at which they are reportedly workingis great. Identify the targets, amke an offer and sign them as soon as the January window opens. The less opposition teams know about our targets, the better.
[/quote]

An amateur can spot it maybe. We lets for gods fucking sake hope we are not hiring a new DOF to run the club like a black/white we need a winer attitude. I cant imagine that Hodgson and Comotelli even have an equal thought on who they want....
[/quote]

They don't need to as Hodgson probably doesn't have much say on who we buy.

And whats so special about winers and their attitudes?
[/quote]

Spelling mistake... But when I read it again I have no idea what I was suppose to say anyway :laugh:

 

[jan]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42566.msg1211263#msg1211263 date=1288870480]
The odds on Deschamps replacing Budgie might be shortening
[/quote]

That would be most excellent news, Dechamps does fit the profile we are looking for nicely. Although he already turned us down in the summer (as probably any sensible manager would have, considering the mess our club was at the time) he could hopefully be persuaded by Henry and the board to join "an exciting new project" or however they'd call it, especially now with the French connection and all

 

[Squiggles]

One major advantage with a DOF is if the club decides to sack the manager. there is not the complete need for upheaval, or a desire to 'start again' like we have to every 5 years.

It insists that the club has one vision, which our managers have to aspire to.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211361#msg1211361 date=1288879679]
One major advantage with a DOF is if the club decides to sack the manager. there is not the complete need for upheaval, or a desire to 'start again' like we have to every 5 years.

It insists that the club has one vision, which our managers have to aspire to.
[/quote]

and what about if a club decides to sack the director of football because his 'vision' isn't working?

or is it somehow impossible for a DOF to fail in that?

 

[Judge Jules]

Nope. Comolli himself got the push from Tottenham in the end, which is one reason why I'm very undecided about the appointment. The other main reason is simply that this kind of set-up complicates a club's management structure and gives scope for endless "turf wars", another feature of the previous situation at Tottenham.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211374#msg1211374 date=1288880625]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211361#msg1211361 date=1288879679]
One major advantage with a DOF is if the club decides to sack the manager. there is not the complete need for upheaval, or a desire to 'start again' like we have to every 5 years.

It insists that the club has one vision, which our managers have to aspire to.
[/quote]

and what about if a club decides to sack the director of football because his 'vision' isn't working?

or is it somehow impossible for a DOF to fail in that?
[/quote]

The DOF will share this vision with the owners of the club, so he's guaranteed a greater period of time in which to implement it.

If the players he is brining in and advising us on aren't in line with the owners strategy then yeah, he'll have to go. But if the vision isn't working then the owners will have to look at their own business model as much as the position of the DOF.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42566.msg1211381#msg1211381 date=1288881104]
Nope. Comolli himself got the push from Tottenham in the end, which is one reason why I'm very undecided about the appointment. The other main reason is simply that this kind of set-up complicates a club's management structure and gives scope for endless "turf wars", another feature of the previous situation at Tottenham.
[/quote]


hmmm. i don't like the idea of such risk of upheaval should the Director of Football need to be replaced. surely the obvious way around that would be to appoint a Director of Football Direction, someone who can come in with a supreme vision of how all future Directors of Football should operate. a further safeguard - in the event of disaster - would be to create the position of Director of Direction of Football Direction, to guard against the risk of total chaos should the Director of Football Direction fail and have to be replaced.

no doubt some flippant idiot will cite the need for a Director of Direction of Direction of Football Direction, but to me it seems patently obvious that 3 levels of direction above the head coach is corrcet, and any more would be needless complication.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211392#msg1211392 date=1288882034]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211374#msg1211374 date=1288880625]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211361#msg1211361 date=1288879679]
One major advantage with a DOF is if the club decides to sack the manager. there is not the complete need for upheaval, or a desire to 'start again' like we have to every 5 years.

It insists that the club has one vision, which our managers have to aspire to.
[/quote]

and what about if a club decides to sack the director of football because his 'vision' isn't working?

or is it somehow impossible for a DOF to fail in that?
[/quote]

The DOF will share this vision with the owners of the club, so he's guaranteed a greater period of time in which to implement it.

If the players he is brining in and advising us on aren't in line with the owners strategy then yeah, he'll have to go. But if the vision isn't working then the owners will have to look at their own business model as much as the position of the DOF.

[/quote]


it seems to me we're in danger of letting 'vision' become a bit of a meaningless buzzword - what does it actually mean in practical, football, terms?

 

[King Binny]

One of my concern is, whereas Arsenal's type of operation method and vision is admirable, they have 'paid for it' in terms of honors and silverwares. I hope the owners aren't just obsessed with making the franchise profitable and self-sufficient but have much more ambition to go along with it.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211403#msg1211403 date=1288882772]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211392#msg1211392 date=1288882034]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42566.msg1211374#msg1211374 date=1288880625]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42566.msg1211361#msg1211361 date=1288879679]
One major advantage with a DOF is if the club decides to sack the manager. there is not the complete need for upheaval, or a desire to 'start again' like we have to every 5 years.

It insists that the club has one vision, which our managers have to aspire to.
[/quote]

and what about if a club decides to sack the director of football because his 'vision' isn't working?

or is it somehow impossible for a DOF to fail in that?
[/quote]

The DOF will share this vision with the owners of the club, so he's guaranteed a greater period of time in which to implement it.

If the players he is brining in and advising us on aren't in line with the owners strategy then yeah, he'll have to go. But if the vision isn't working then the owners will have to look at their own business model as much as the position of the DOF.

[/quote]


it seems to me we're in danger of letting 'vision' become a bit of a meaningless buzzword - what does it actually mean in practical, football, terms?
[/quote]

Becoming the next Arsenal is basically when I believe we'll look to achieve.

That's vision, and they're run vastly different to us. That isn't just a buzzword.

 

[peterhague]

the next arsenal in terms of what? the youth policy or the tippy-tappy football and recruitment of technical players, or both? i'd be in favour of someone other than the manager having the main say on youth development and recruitment, but is that a big enough role to ensure continuity from one manager to the next?

what i'm getting at is, what level of influence over team affairs do you think a DOF would need for the team to have smooth transition between managers - dictating the formation? the style of play? how attacking or defensive the team should be? if he didn't have control of that sort of thing, might players who were suitable under one coach suddenly be unsuitable under the next - and would that be upheaval? or maybe a coach would always be selected to ensure similar approaches in formation, style of play, footballing philosophy, and if so, would it not just be easier for the DOF to manage the team himself?

 

[Squiggles]

A DOF isn't some tactical whizzkid, who can get the best out of the players and assess the weaknesses of the opposition. He'll be expected to produce and bring in certain types of players, of which value will be the main concern.

It will ease the level of upheaval between managers because the ability of our squad should stay reasonably consistent - after all that's what he's being judged upon, and our wage bill should also decrease, leaving a bit more money for transfers. I don't believe we'll go like Barcelona and play 4-3-3 no matter what and always sign technically gifted footballers, regardless of the manager. But at this stage it's hard to say what we'll do. It's one of those things which is hard to predict, but will become apparent in the next year or two.

 

[peterhague]

right. clear as mud, then.

 

[RolandG]

Once we have a defined footballing style (pass and move of old), that should determine the type of players we look to buy.

 

[Squiggles]

Pass and move isn't a football style.

 

[King Binny]

Had Daniel Levy had access to a piece of information that appeared in the Arsenal match-day programme for the game against Manchester United last November then there is a chance that the Tottenham chairman might not have made what turned out to be the most catastrophic appointment in his club's history since Christian Gross.

It came at the end of an innocuous interview with the Arsenal chief scout Steve Rowley who, as the bloke whose job it is to know the identity of the best 14-year-old right-back in Burkina Faso and other such facts crucial to Arsène Wenger, evidently knows a thing or too about scouting. In the final question, Rowley was asked what he thought of Spurs' then director of football Damien Comolli, previously a scout for Arsenal, who at the time had just seen off Martin Jol in a nasty power struggle within the club.

"Well," answered Rowley, in the manner of a man who seemed to be weighing his words carefully while inviting us to read between the lines. "I always thought he [Comolli] was very ambitious. He was a hard-working member of my staff for about seven or eight years and the player he found for us was Gaël Clichy. He was enthusiastic and ambitious and now he's got a different role at Spurs."

A different role at Spurs? You can say that again; in fact, Levy had virtually given Comolli the keys to White Hart Lane. Presumably he did so on the basis that Comolli had been the man who, at Arsenal, put together one of the most exciting generations of young footballers in the history of the game. Er, no, in the space of eight years, Comolli discovered Gaël Clichy.

In fact, the man who did not discover Cesc Fabregas, Theo Walcott, Bacary Sagna, Abou Diaby or Philippe Senderos and had bugger all to do with uncovering the talent of Denilson, Johan Djourou, Nicklas Bendtner, Armand Traoré or Emmanuel Eboué got more than a different role. He got a job at Tottenham that made him even more powerful than the manager.

The rise and fall of Comolli – he was finally sacked at the weekend – is one of those stories that is hard to believe even by the fantastical standards of English football. Having discovered one young French left-back – one of the best left-backs in the Premier League but, nonetheless, just one left-back – Comolli was effectively made Jol's boss. His word on transfers was final. Jol's two fifth-place finishes in the Premier League, Spurs' highest finishes since 1990, were of secondary concern alongside the judgement of the man who discovered Gaël Clichy.

Once at Spurs, Comolli discovered some more players: Adel Taarabt, Kevin-Prince Boateng, Younes Kaboul, Benoït Assou-Ekotto, Didier Zokora and Dorian Dervite. The strange thing was that none of them was really up to muster. In fact, you could say with some confidence that none was nearly as good as Gaël Clichy and the suspicion was that Levy had thought that Comolli was responsible for discovering rather more of Arsenal's young stars than Rowley was prepared to give him credit for.

Having wreaked havoc on Jol's career, Comolli then preceded to do the same with Juande Ramos. The now former Spurs manager has said as much over the last few months, hinting in his hesitant English that he was unhappy at the way in which the sale of Dimitar Berbatov was handled – and the subsequent failure to replace him. Comolli had already undermined Jol the previous summer by buying Darren Bent and Kaboul against the manager's wishes. Amazingly, with Levy's help, he managed to do exactly the same to their new manager the following summer.

Comolli has overseen the disposal of Spurs' three best strikers – Berbatov, Robbie Keane and Jermain Defoe – and left the club considerably weaker than when he found it. He has failed at the job to such an extent that not only has he been sacked but Levy has also abandoned the entire director of football system. It takes some effort to do a job so badly that your employer not only gets rid of you but your whole position as well.

Buying and selling footballers – it must be a great job. Unfortunately, it also comes with the caveat that if you make mistakes over a period of time and if the team suffers as a result, then you get the sack. For a while it seemed that Comolli was immune to the consequences of the mess he made at Spurs while Jol, and then Ramos, were the men to cop it. Eventually, however, the continuity that Levy once hoped the director of football system would give his club had to be junked when it turned out the director of football was the problem. Comolli leaves Spurs with the greatest achievement on his CV still the fact that he discovered Gaël Clichy.

 

[Rosco]

Selling Keane and Berbatov, at those prices, was the best thing Spurs ever did.

 

[Farkmaster]

How can you base an entire line of argument from one flimsy, throwaway statement.

"Yeah, he did a good job, actually, he found Clichy"

THE ONLY THING HE DID OVER 8 YEARS IS FIND CLICHY!!! THE REST OF THE TIME HE MUST HAVE BEEN BUSYING HIMSELF BY PUNCHING BABY JESUS! WHAT OTHER EXPLANATION COULD THERE BE?!!

 

[King Binny]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42566.msg1211508#msg1211508 date=1288899819]
How can you base an entire line of argument from one flimsy, throwaway statement.

"Yeah, he did a good job, actually, he found Clichy"

THE ONLY THING HE DID OVER 8 YEARS IS FIND CLICHY!!! THE REST OF THE TIME HE MUST HAVE BEEN BUSYING HIMSELF BY PUNCHING BABY JESUS! WHAT OTHER EXPLANATION COULD THERE BE?!!
[/quote]

Yeah, pretty biased article. Possible case of Steve Rowley understating his role (cos of Comolli's 'demise' at that moment + to claim credit for himself/those still in Arsenal's scouting network)

 

[RolandG]

So Squiggles, in your infinite wisdom what would you call it?

 

[Squiggles]

-

 

[RolandG]

That answer is way to cryptic for me!

I haven't yet evolved into a super intelligent Being!

Do elaborate.

 

[Squiggles]

It's essential.

What other football styles on there in your mind? Pass and Move, what else? Long ball tactics? I'm no expert, but I'm not that naive either.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42566.msg1211506#msg1211506 date=1288899520]
Selling Keane and Berbatov, at those prices, was the best thing Spurs ever did.
[/quote]

If their ambition as a club is more in line with being profitable than winning trophies, then yes you're right.