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Jorginho vs Ruben Neves

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Oncy said:
Ok. Let me speak slooooowly. He, EMRE CAN...is leaving for FREE in 60 days. Right?
You with me so far?

Now if he wants a deal NOW with a 30m release clause then WE (thats the club).......still following? Should sign him up on that deal. Then IF an offer comes in for him we MAKE 30m instead of NOTHING.

Suarez had a release clause. We did not sell him when it was met. Im sure other players have had will have release clauses. And imagining this one case is the catalyst for players banging down the managers door demanding release clauses is fucking infantile.
Cool?
Cool.
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Do you think we'd have got half of Catalonia for Coutinho if we'd have put a £80million release clause into his contract last summer? Because thats exactly what would have happened if we set the precedent that we'll give you exactly what you want as long as you sign. Liverpool are completely right not to buckle in this situation, try look past the next five minutes and see the bigger picture.
 
Oncy said:
Ok. Let me speak slooooowly. He, EMRE CAN...is leaving for FREE in 60 days. Right?
You with me so far?

Now if he wants a deal NOW with a 30m release clause then WE (thats the club).......still following? Should sign him up on that deal. Then IF an offer comes in for him we MAKE 30m instead of NOTHING.

Suarez had a release clause. We did not sell him when it was met. Im sure other players have had will have release clauses. And imagining this one case is the catalyst for players banging down the managers door demanding release clauses is fucking infantile.
Cool?
Cool.
Click to expand...

Haha, fucking hell. You need some sleep, or rethinking this another day.
No matter how slow you’re doing this, you still dont get it.

Can someone else try and explain this to Oncy? Please?
 
Mystic said:
Do you think we'd have got half of Catalonia for Coutinho if we'd have put a £80million release clause into his contract last summer? Because thats exactly what would have happened if we set the precedent that we'll give you exactly what you want as long as you sign. Liverpool are completely right not to buckle in this situation, try look past the next five minutes and see the bigger picture.
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*rubs temples* Coutinho wasnt about to walk for free!!! Fucking hell.
 
Hansern said:
Haha, fucking hell. You need some sleep, or rethinking this another day.
No matter how slow you’re doing this, you still dont get it.

Can someone else try and explain this to Oncy? Please?
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I get it. Youre just wrong. Its cool.
 
Actually fairer to say I just disagree with it. Saying youre wrong is dickish.
Im unconvinced the reason he isnt signing is anything to do with a release clause.
 
Oncy said:
*rubs temples* Coutinho wasnt about to walk for free!!! Fucking hell.
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We'd have got much less for him if we either didn't renew his contract, or renewed with a release clause, thats the point, exactly the same thing happened with Suarez. Higher wages, no release clause, bigger transfer fee. Agree a release clause and you set a precedent whereby you have less control over your transfers, and get less money for them. Maybe do it for your star player as a last resort, but not an above average squadie like Can.
 
Mystic said:
We'd have got much less for him if we either didn't renew his contract, or renewed with a release clause, thats the point, exactly the same thing happened with Suarez. Higher wages, no release clause, bigger transfer fee. Agree a release clause and you set a precedent whereby you have less control over your transfers, and get less money for them. Maybe do it for your star player as a last resort, but not an above average squadie like Can.
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Nope. Never going to agree.
Like I said, I seriously doubt that the reason we havnt agreed a deal with Can is anything to do with a release clause.
Far more likely to be a combination of wages, chance to win trophies.
 
Oncy said:
Nope. Never going to agree.
Like I said, I seriously doubt that the reason we havnt agreed a deal with Can is anything to do with a release clause.
Far more likely to be a combination of wages, chance to win trophies.
Click to expand...

He should understand that if we splash all our wagebudget on him we have less chance to win trophies.
 
Its been reported all over the press that the release clause is the sticking point in the negotiations.
Disagreeing with it is one thing, but not seeing that even if we get 30 or 40 mill for Can now with a new contract containing a release clause and in the long run that will affect our stand in other contract situations which could see us having to agree contracts that will see our players leave for less than market value, is a bit weird.

Doesnt matter anyway. Can will probably leave regardless.
 
I think we spent like 10M on him...for what 5 years and he has developed. Does any one know if thease player contracts on signing have any clauses in them where in cases we pay a fee for them we have a right to get a portion of their signing on fee if they join a new club after contract expiry ?

I actually think Klopp does not want him im the team. He thinks more highly of himself than even us supporters. He is like a midfield workhorse that tires in the head as the game intensifies. I think the owners actually see him as some guy that was part of their youth system that has played for first team...later day Ings.
 
Hansern said:
Its been reported all over the press that the release clause is the sticking point in the negotiations.
Disagreeing with it is one thing, but not seeing that even if we get 30 or 40 mill for Can now with a new contract containing a release clause and in the long run that will affect our stand in other contract situations which could see us having to agree contracts that will see our players leave for less than market value, is a bit weird.

Doesnt matter anyway. Can will probably leave regardless.
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See heres where you and I differ.
I think we protect THIS asset and show all our other assets that we will negotiate something that suits us AND them.
(Assuming you are right and its all about a release clause)

You feel if we negotiate this one time with Can everyone will want to negotiate a release clause.

Right? Thats the two polar positions.

But lets say we dont negotiate and allow him to leave. For free.

What does THAT say to all our players and future players?

You seem to be of the hard line that if we negotiate with Can over a release clause that sends a message to all our players that we are weak. But you seem totally oblivious to the fact that a hardine sends a very clear message too. Dont sign. Or leave for free.

Like I said. We differ. Thats cool. Im not sure why you take it so personally that someone else has a different viewpoint to you.

Thats life my friend.
 
Neves all day. someone said something about 'can we really win the league with a 22 year old in his first season in the PL being the brains' .... we won the european cup in 2005 with just that, and the rest of the team was comparatively shit.
Neves is going to be a superstar, and id rather he got there here.
 
LMG said:
Neves all day. someone said something about 'can we really win the league with a 22 year old in his first season in the PL being the brains' .... we won the european cup in 2005 with just that, and the rest of the team was comparatively shit.
Neves is going to be a superstar, and id rather he got there here.
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Erm scuse me LMG youre in the wrong thread. This is the Emre Can contract thread.
 
Can isn't consistent enough for Klopp.

The way I see it Klopp will give players a season or two to improve consistency to a level where even on a bad day they get 6 or 7 out of 10. If they don't get there he wants to replace them.

Since he's come in you can argue that a majority of our first team now fit into that category.

Can doesn't. He can have a fair few great games then fuck off into something like a 4 out of 10 seemingly for no reason.

Were he happy to be benched regularly Luke. Gini seems to be, I think he'd be staying, but he clearly isn't, so Klopp wants an upgrade.
 
FoxForceFive said:
Can isn't consistent enough for Klopp.

The way I see it Klopp will give players a season or two to improve consistency to a level where even on a bad day they get 6 or 7 out of 10. If they don't get there he wants to replace them.

Since he's come in you can argue that a majority of our first team now fit into that category.

Can doesn't. He can have a fair few great games then fuck off into something like a 4 out of 10 seemingly for no reason.

Were he happy to be benched regularly Luke. Gini seems to be, I think he'd be staying, but he clearly isn't, so Klopp wants an upgrade.
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He's played Can more often than Wijnaldum, when both have been available.
 
That's cos he's better than gini. And more consistent. He's still not always consistent though, & regardless of Hendo's faults (as the other mainstay midfielder) you always know what you're gonna get.

I think Klopp wants that same level if confidence in another midfielder.

It's been something I've banged on about for years, the most regular trophy winning sides always have a lot of extremely consistent players with three or four top class players supplementing that consistency.

Under Klopp we're getting very very close to that level currently. We certainly have close to a first eleven that you can put out knowing what you're gonna get each game, for me Can is not one of those players, Lovren & Karius being the others that spring to mind, (TAA/Gomez also, but due to age, inexperience & potential you can arguably wear that risk & I'll exclude them for the time being). Those three for me will be potential priorities to be replaced & most fans would say so too.

If you can get a first eleven that will always offer you 7 out of 10 & a couple who will give you 9 out of 10 every game you should beat almost all of the sides you face & only lose points on really really bad days which will be few & far between.

That's how you win shit. Can for me doesn't offer that, on his best days he's brilliant, on his worst he's a burden on those around him in a very important position.
 
LMG said:
:)

sorry mate, i should read the titles!
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Titles have nothing to do with the thread. This is 6CM, where going off on multiple tangents is de rigueur and staying on topic is frowned upon and could even be considered grounds for a banning. You've been warned !
 
I understand we should be disappointed to not be getting a fee for Can, but I genuinely don't think he will that much of a miss.
 
FoxForceFive said:
It's been something I've banged on about for years, the most regular trophy winning sides always have a lot of extremely consistent players with three or four top class players supplementing that consistency.
Click to expand...

Seem to recall someone also saying title winning teams typically have a 20 goal per season scorer. Can't remember who it was though as they only mentioned it the one time....
 
darkstarexodus said:
Seem to recall someone also saying title winning teams typically have a 20 goal per season scorer. Can't remember who it was though as they only mentioned it the one time....
Click to expand...
He forgot to say that you also need quality in the other parts of the pitch such midfield, defence and goalkeeper.

Or did he?
 
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