Legacies - Rafa vs Ged

[Delinquent]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=40459.msg1111833#msg1111833 date=1275543267]
Both were good managers for us and Rafa's legacy will be the starlets at the Academy for years to come.
[/quote]

Or perhaps just a modest profit on them after they've failed to make the grade.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.[/quote]

Well as you've often stated we've got a very good first team, it's just that Rafa hasn't been getting the best out of them.

Make up your mind Oncy.........Oh!

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
Houllier won more. End of
[/quote]

U mean the cup that the top teams didnt even bother to send out their first team? Did reserve and youth team trophies count too?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1111985#msg1111985 date=1275556580]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.[/quote]

Well as you've often stated we've got a very good first team, it's just that Rafa hasn't been getting the best out of them.

Make up your mind Oncy.........Oh!
[/quote]You mean the first team who to all intents and purposes want to leave because we have to pre-qualify for the Europa league next year. Oh indeed!

 

[RolandG]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40459.msg1111963#msg1111963 date=1275555981]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=40459.msg1111833#msg1111833 date=1275543267]
Both were good managers for us and Rafa's legacy will be the starlets at the Academy for years to come.
[/quote]

Or perhaps just a modest profit on them after they've failed to make the grade.
[/quote]

I guess that only time will tell although I'm pretty positive that more than a few of the lads have the ability to make the step up.

 

[justdoit]

Goalkeepers
1 Jurek Dudek, 22 Chris Kirkland, 29 Patrice Luzi
Defenders
Carl Medjani, 2 Stephane Henchoz, 36 Jon Otsemobor, 3 Steve Finnan, John Welsh, 21 Djimi Traore, 4 Sami Hyypia, 15 Salif Diao, 23 Jamie Carragher
Midfielders
16 Dietmar Hamann, 18 John Arne Riise, 13 Danny Murphy, 28 Bruno Cheyrou, 17 Steven Gerrard, 25 Igor Biscan, 11 Vladimir Smicer
Forwards
10 Michael Owen, 9 El Hadji Diouf, 20 Anthony Le Tallec, 5 Milan Baros, 24 Florent Sinama Pongolle, 7 Harry Kewell, 8 Emile Heskey, 26 Richie Partridge

what a wonderful squad
I am sure top managers would rather have them than the likes of reina, johnson, carra, agger, masher, gerrard, torres, yossi, kuyt......

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111998#msg1111998 date=1275557001]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1111985#msg1111985 date=1275556580]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.[/quote]

Well as you've often stated we've got a very good first team, it's just that Rafa hasn't been getting the best out of them.

Make up your mind Oncy.........Oh!
[/quote]You mean the first team who to all intents and purposes want to leave because we have to pre-qualify for the Europa league next year. Oh indeed!

[/quote]

Thats bollocks and you know it.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112008#msg1112008 date=1275557335]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111998#msg1111998 date=1275557001]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1111985#msg1111985 date=1275556580]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.[/quote]

Well as you've often stated we've got a very good first team, it's just that Rafa hasn't been getting the best out of them.

Make up your mind Oncy.........Oh!
[/quote]You mean the first team who to all intents and purposes want to leave because we have to pre-qualify for the Europa league next year. Oh indeed!

[/quote]

Thats bollocks and you know it.


[/quote]Whats bollocks?
Mascherano - I wish I'd gone to barcelona
yossi - I want to gonto Chelsea
Riera - I'll go any fucking where me
torres - Im only thinking about the world cup
aurelio - I'm offski
Gerrard - I'm still a Liverpool player

yeah it's all fucking rosy in the garden isn't it.
If our first team squad remains the same next season I'll be A) Amazed B) certain well finish above 7th. And yes I'll take it back about rafas legacy. Well the bit about the players, not the leaving us out the champions league.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

If any of those players go it won't be because we've finished 7th Oncy. It'll either be for personal reasons or we cant strengthen like they want us to.

 

[themn]

So does Rafa not deserve any credit for the Champions' League victory ?

It's one thing to inherit a "decent" team, quite another to get them past Juve and Chelsea when no-one gave us a prayer.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112029#msg1112029 date=1275558302]
If any of those players go it won't be because we've finished 7th Oncy. It'll either be for personal reasons or we cant strengthen like they want us to.


[/quote]If we had won the league last year or at least had a go and were in the champions league next year and the manager didn't fuck them all about week in week out none would want to leave (maybe mascherano).
Anyway it's irrelevant.
Ged left a happy squad (owen aside) Rafa is leaving a morally bust dissafected rabble. We can argue the reasons for that all day. I'm just trying to not let the rcdnwers repaint history.
Houllier left a champions league winning squad give or take. We won't know if Rafa did because we aren't in it next year.
The end.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111928#msg1111928 date=1275553712]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40459.msg1111878#msg1111878 date=1275550090]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40459.msg1111727#msg1111727 date=1275525660]
Rafa was a better manager than Houllier and achieved more than him too.
[/quote]


yet won less trophies.
[/quote]Why bother mate. Rafa = David Koresh.
[/quote]I should heed my own advice.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112039#msg1112039 date=1275558665]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112029#msg1112029 date=1275558302]
If any of those players go it won't be because we've finished 7th Oncy. It'll either be for personal reasons or we cant strengthen like they want us to.


[/quote]If we had won the league last year or at least had a go and were in the champions league next year and the manager didn't fuck them all about week in week out none would want to leave (maybe mascherano).
Anyway it's irrelevant.
Ged left a happy squad (owen aside) Rafa is leaving a morally bust dissafected rabble. We can argue the reasons for that all day. I'm just trying to not let the rcdnwers repaint history.
Houllier left a champions league winning squad give or take. We won't know if Rafa did because we aren't in it next year.
The end.
[/quote]

Houllier left a shite squad that Rafa turned into CL winners.

The fact remains that Rafa has left us with a very good first team (your words) + a number of talented youngsters coming through. Mascher aside, if we are able to bring in a few quality players, then the players you mention will stay (it has fuck all to do with finishing 7th).

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112044#msg1112044 date=1275558825]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111928#msg1111928 date=1275553712]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40459.msg1111878#msg1111878 date=1275550090]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40459.msg1111727#msg1111727 date=1275525660]
Rafa was a better manager than Houllier and achieved more than him too.
[/quote]


yet won less trophies.
[/quote]Why bother mate. Rafa = David Koresh.
[/quote]I should heed my own advice.
[/quote]^

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112039#msg1112039 date=1275558665]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112029#msg1112029 date=1275558302]
If any of those players go it won't be because we've finished 7th Oncy. It'll either be for personal reasons or we cant strengthen like they want us to.


[/quote]If we had won the league last year or at least had a go and were in the champions league next year and the manager didn't fuck them all about week in week out none would want to leave (maybe mascherano).
Anyway it's irrelevant.
Ged left a happy squad (owen aside) Rafa is leaving a morally bust dissafected rabble. We can argue the reasons for that all day. I'm just trying to not let the rcdnwers repaint history.
Houllier left a champions league winning squad give or take. We won't know if Rafa did because we aren't in it next year.
The end.
[/quote]

If Houllier left a CL winning squad, how come he never even made a quarter final with them, let alone win it?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.
[/quote]


i wish people would stop with this idea that ged left a CL winning squad - it's just fucking bollocks. that was a CL winning squad like greece were the best team in europe in 2004: rafa won us the european cup with probably the weakest team in the CL era. it was a monumental achievement by him, and, of course, carra and gerrard.

tbh rafa leaves the club in crisis, but i don't think the squad's much different in quality to 04 - everything's clouded by the financial problems.

 

[themn]

Re: 2005, what KopKing and peterhague have said is the point I made earlier.

Surely the Rafa bashers can see that ?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112082#msg1112082 date=1275559555]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.
[/quote]

You can't have it both ways Oncy.

You've been banging on about us having a very good 1st team and that Rafa is simply fucking it up. Now that it looks like he's gone you're spouting off about his legacy taking us years to recover from.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112105#msg1112105 date=1275559975]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112082#msg1112082 date=1275559555]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.
[/quote]

You can't have it both ways Oncy.

You've been banging on about us having a very good 1st team and that Rafa is simply fucking it up. Now that it looks like he's gone you're spouting off about his legacy taking us years to recover from.


[/quote]


The difference is that Rafa has left us a much better team on paper.

But look at the performances of our players in all too many of our games.

It's almost as if we've lost before we've even kicked a ball.

I dont know if even a new manager can fix this.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=40459.msg1112092#msg1112092 date=1275559723]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.
[/quote]


i wish people would stop with this idea that ged left a CL winning squad - it's just fucking bollocks. that was a CL winning squad like greece were the best team in europe in 2004: rafa won us the european cup with probably the weakest team in the CL era. it was a monumental achievement by him, and, of course, carra and gerrard.

tbh rafa leaves the club in crisis, but i don't think the squad's much different in quality to 04 - everything's clouded by the financial problems.
[/quote]

The current skwad is equal to or better in most postions than the 05 skwad that we won the CL with. Factoid.

With teh exception of the LB, Riise, who was universally derided on here and the perma crocked Kewell, I can´t think of any players I would swap.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=40459.msg1112092#msg1112092 date=1275559723]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1111970#msg1111970 date=1275556183]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40459.msg1111962#msg1111962 date=1275555954]
I thought football was about trophies. We wouldn't have won the cl without ged's 'poor' last season getting us fourth. Here we are now finishing 7th and people are trying to say Benitez did more and defending him?

2 trophies benitez won. 1 was fantastic, another houllier won. Houllier won more. End of

Yes we're all tainted by Istanbul, but people need to remember that success normally comes with an award
[/quote]The legacy that houllier left is being trampled on by the bleeding heart rcdnwers as fucking per.
Houllier left Rafa a champions league to enter and a squad almost capable of winning it. What exactly has rafa left the next incumbent?
Legacy! It will take years to get us back to where we were when rafa took over.
[/quote]


i wish people would stop with this idea that ged left a CL winning squad - it's just fucking bollocks. that was a CL winning squad like greece were the best team in europe in 2004: rafa won us the european cup with probably the weakest team in the CL era. it was a monumental achievement by him, and, of course, carra and gerrard.

tbh rafa leaves the club in crisis, but i don't think the squad's much different in quality to 04 - everything's clouded by the financial problems.
[/quote]

Yup, people are getting far too polarised here.

We've also got to accept the league is way more competitive now than it was under Houllier's time.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112105#msg1112105 date=1275559975]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112082#msg1112082 date=1275559555]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.
[/quote]

You can't have it both ways Oncy.

You've been banging on about us having a very good 1st team and that Rafa is simply fucking it up. Now that it looks like he's gone you're spouting off about his legacy taking us years to recover from.


[/quote]Look I don't know why you're being so fucking wierd about it, as vlad has said in another thread noone lumps you in with the mentals, I dig you. So for the last time.
Our squad is better player for player than when Ged left without doubt. But what has to be taken into account is wether or not those players will still be here for a new manager. You suggest that being 7th and out of Europe won't be a factor. I think it will.
That's all.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112122#msg1112122 date=1275560478]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112105#msg1112105 date=1275559975]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112082#msg1112082 date=1275559555]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.
[/quote]

You can't have it both ways Oncy.

You've been banging on about us having a very good 1st team and that Rafa is simply fucking it up. Now that it looks like he's gone you're spouting off about his legacy taking us years to recover from.


[/quote]Look I don't know why you're being so fucking wierd about it, as vlad has said in another thread noone lumps you in with the mentals, I dig you. So for the last time.
Our squad is better player for player than when Ged left without doubt. But what has to be taken into account is wether or not those players will still be here for a new manager. You suggest that being 7th and out of Europe won't be a factor. I think it will.
That's all.

[/quote]

What YOU need to do Mr 39000, is stop calling people who don't share your opinions, 'mental'. That's name calling and when you do that, you get name called back and then the thread degenerates. Stop it at once.

 

[Avmenon]

You sound like an ill-tempered Rebel23.

 

[kule]

I find it interesting that they both came to a similar end in that they both got to 2nd in their penultimate season and everyone started thinking this is it we've got a good chance of winning next year - then the wheels fell off the season after...

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40459.msg1112126#msg1112126 date=1275560724]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112122#msg1112122 date=1275560478]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112105#msg1112105 date=1275559975]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40459.msg1112082#msg1112082 date=1275559555]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40459.msg1112075#msg1112075 date=1275559464]
Or just try to stop flip flopping all over the place.
[/quote]Yeah that makes sense.
[/quote]

You can't have it both ways Oncy.

You've been banging on about us having a very good 1st team and that Rafa is simply fucking it up. Now that it looks like he's gone you're spouting off about his legacy taking us years to recover from.


[/quote]Look I don't know why you're being so fucking wierd about it, as vlad has said in another thread noone lumps you in with the mentals, I dig you. So for the last time.
Our squad is better player for player than when Ged left without doubt. But what has to be taken into account is wether or not those players will still be here for a new manager. You suggest that being 7th and out of Europe won't be a factor. I think it will.
That's all.

[/quote]

What YOU need to do Mr 39000, is stop calling people who don't share your opinions, 'mental'. That's name calling and when you do that, you get name called back and then the thread degenerates. Stop it at once.
[/quote]Stop following me around you fucking wum.
I disagree with plenty of people, some of them are mental some aren't. I'll let you guess where I file you.
Now please for the last time fuck off.

 

[Richey]

If Houllier's squad was awful, yet he qualified for the Champions League with them, and Benitez's squad is amazing, yet he only took it to 7th place, who did a better job?