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Lucas

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[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44105.msg1280617#msg1280617 date=1297054780]
Apart from Magic, Lucas is the most improved player so far this season.
[/quote]

Glenjo has been dreadful for most of the season.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44105.msg1280625#msg1280625 date=1297056337]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44105.msg1280617#msg1280617 date=1297054780]
Apart from Magic, Lucas is the most improved player so far this season.
[/quote]

Glenjo has been dreadful for most of the season.
[/quote]

Not since he has moved to left back under Kenny!
 
Dalglish has done many things in a short time which deserve praise, but let's not pretend that Lucas has not been improving steadily for a couple of years now, despite the turmoil around him.
 
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,16708_6736582,00.html

The 2007 arrival from Gremio is often used as a label for the faults in the Liverpool reign of Rafa Benitez; a mistake in the transfer market; a square peg for a round hole. But the former Anfield boss was always rigorous in his defence of a player upon who he spent £6m and once announced that 'people just don't know how good Lucas is'.

General consensus is that among the wretched 12 months that was 2010 for Liverpool, Lucas was the man who stood out as the club's best player. While team-mates and managers wilted around him, the now-24-year-old showed spirit for the fight as sceptics and opponents circled like vultures.
Click to expand...

The man from Dourados, a city in the south west of Brazil, had presumably been hardened by the barrage of negativity he had been forced to shoulder since crossing the Atlantic almost four years earlier. Lucas himself told skysports.com in an interview conducted in March 2010: "I don't know why the criticism started with me, but some people just do not like me."

Lucas arrived at Anfield as an attacking midfielder, who made late runs into the box and essentially represented a Brazilian version of captain Gerrard. But Benitez decided he would be best deployed in the responsible holding role, having never trusted Gerrard to fill such a position. The 2007 Merseyside derby at Goodison Park was famously an illustration as the hot-headed Gerrard was substituted by Benitez in favour of Lucas, who went on to secure a match-winning penalty.
Click to expand...

The sale of Xabi Alonso to Real Madrid led to a regular first-team role for Lucas alongside Javier Mascherano, who has since joined Barcelona. However, the arrival of Roy Hodgson in the summer of 2010 seemed set to spell the end of his Liverpool career. He was told he could leave if he wanted and did not seem to feature in his new manager's plans. But the fighting spirit, which is not always evident in South American imports to the Premier League, again shinned and a first-team place was reclaimed.

Hodgson has gone, Lucas remains. He is clearly an integral part of Dalglish's plans, as well as inheriting Brazil's famous No.5 shirt under former Gremio boss Mano Menezes. The transformation from boo-boy to midfield engine room has been remarkable and it now appears that the much-sought-after commodity of time in football was the vital element. Lucas needed to settle, especially after arriving on a foreign continent, just out of his teenage years, and being deployed in a different position to that which earned the Bola de Ouro, the Brazilian Footballer of the Year, in 2006. A look at the Chelsea team-sheet on Sunday provided a perfect example of how difficult it can be for South Americans to find form and avoid injury in the rough and tumble of the Premier League as Ramires was not even named among the substitutes, despite costing three times as much as his compatriot.
Click to expand...

There is a need to not to get carried away. The frustrating elements of Lucas' game remain evident; he started slowly against Chelsea; he can get caught in possession; he can give away clumsy free-kicks. But, as demonstrated by his tackling back in a direct duel with Michael Essien, there is the pride in personal performance that is rated so highly by Dalglish and mistakes have significantly decreased in frequency. 13 Premier League points have been collected under Dalglish in the process of close to 400 minutes without conceding a goal.
Click to expand...

A look at Lucas' Opta statistics during his 90-minute, plus injury-time, outing against Chelsea demonstrates his improvement. His overall pass completion rate was an incredible 88.89 per cent, 81.82% when in the opponents' half of the field. These figures are very similar to his contribution for the 2010/11 campaign to date, with an overall pass completion of 84.02% and 81.08% when in the opponents' section of the field. One goal has been assisted and 14 chances created from a total of 1133 passes.

The obvious argument would be to suggest that the majority of passes have been simple 10-yard side-foots when under no pressure. But there is a skill to decision-making when doing the unsung task. Ask Sergio Busquets. A destructive force has also been added to Lucas' game. Ninety-nine tackles have been made throughout the season at a success rate of 66.67%. Four yellow cards have been collected. The second booking earned in the defeat to Stoke in November was an act of petulance, but also a reflection of new-found aggression. Seven tackles were made against Chelsea. This may not sound a lot, but that is one player recording exactly one third of Liverpool's entire tackle count at Stamford Bridge.

Lucas does not possess the natural pace, power and overall athleticism to dictate midfields, but he is beginning to patrol in front of the defence, whether it be three or two centre-backs, with brilliant effect.

He deserves immense praise amid the clamour for Dalglish to be given a permanent contract and the dissections of Torres' terrible 65-minute Chelsea debut. Lucas embodies what Dalglish seems to be trying to impose upon his team - a personal freedom within a team responsibility.
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=44105.msg1281114#msg1281114 date=1297100147]
Lucas embodies what Dalglish seems to be trying to impose upon his team - a personal freedom within a team responsibility.[/quote]
[/quote]

That bit is spot on IMO
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44105.msg1281119#msg1281119 date=1297100643]
Lucas did not play as an attacking midfielder at Gremio, he just had a goal glut.
[/quote]

I think they just quoted from the man himself.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Exclusive-Lucas-Leiva-interview-Liverpool-would-be-mad-to-get-rid-of-Rafa-Benitez-but-we-should-be-fighting-for-the-Premier-League-title-not-fourth-place-by-Simon-Mullock-article362461.html

He said: “I know some people still don’t believe in me. That is something I have learned to cope with.

“I just try to do my best for the people who do believe in me, like the manager and my team-mates.

“I came to the club as an attacking midfielder, but I have had to learn a different role.

“It was difficult to adapt to how fast and physical the game is in England. I have stayed because I believed I could be a success for Liverpool.â€
Click to expand...
 
It's hard not to like the lad, though I have no idea why a fan would actively want to dislike a LFC player.

It's no surprise that many of the fans I know who don't like Lucas, didn't like Dirk or Carra in the first few years either.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44105.msg1281148#msg1281148 date=1297102900]
I thought everyone thought he was great first season? I may be wrong of course.
[/quote]

There were still a few who focussed only on his first touch and lack of ability to beat a man with pace and trickery.

To be fair, some of the critics I am referring to may have only become vocal in his second season, but the point remains.
 
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=44105.msg1281135#msg1281135 date=1297101723]
It's hard not to like the lad, though I have no idea why a fan would actively want to dislike a LFC player.

It's no surprise that many of the fans I know who don't like Lucas, didn't like Dirk or Carra in the first few years either.
[/quote]

There are games, such as the one on Sunday, which I believe he deserves credit, however over the course of his Liverpool career there have been more where he's deserved criticism. It's got nothing to do with *wanting* to dislike a LFC player.. he's often been subpar and that's why he's gotten (admittedly excessive) stick.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44105.msg1281156#msg1281156 date=1297103280]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=44105.msg1281135#msg1281135 date=1297101723]
It's hard not to like the lad, though I have no idea why a fan would actively want to dislike a LFC player.

It's no surprise that many of the fans I know who don't like Lucas, didn't like Dirk or Carra in the first few years either.
[/quote]

There are games, such as the one on Sunday, which I believe he deserves credit, however over the course of his Liverpool career there have been more where he's deserved criticism. It's got nothing to do with *wanting* to dislike a LFC player.. he's often been subpar and that's why he's gotten (admittedly excessive) stick.
[/quote]

Naah, I don't buy that. There are plenty of us who critisise him when due, and praise him when due. That's fair and nbot what I'm on about.

You only have to look at recent posts - people saying things like:

"Lucas had a good game, though it pains me to say it."
"Lucas was very good *cringe*."
etc.
 
Lucas was very poor in the first half with his "crowning" moments being; getting caught in possession leading to a very dangerous Chelsea attack and giving away a stoopid free kick in a very dangerous position.

In the second half he put in a very good performance.

I rate him 3/10 for the first half and 7/10 for his second half performance = 5/10.

The kid will never be good enough for a first team place in any team with trophy aspirations.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=44105.msg1281207#msg1281207 date=1297109079]
5/10. You're taking the piss arnt you?
[/quote]

No,he was awful in the first half and on another day could have given away a goal or two if it weren't for Chelsea's profligacy and a great saving tackle by Carra.

He was good in the second half but that's cancelled out by his first half performance. I actually awarded him a 6 on another thread - awarding him a bonus point for effort.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44105.msg1280437#msg1280437 date=1297029618]
We can and will do better, let's not get carried away, but credit where it's due. I like the lad, he never let's his head drop and today was up against it with the likes of Essien and Mikel, he's doing well and could well be a good squaddie.
[/quote]

Would you have Mikel ahead of Lucas Mark?

I wouldn't, and one cost more than 3 times the other.
 
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=44105.msg1281219#msg1281219 date=1297110895]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44105.msg1280437#msg1280437 date=1297029618]
We can and will do better, let's not get carried away, but credit where it's due. I like the lad, he never let's his head drop and today was up against it with the likes of Essien and Mikel, he's doing well and could well be a good squaddie.
[/quote]

Would you have Mikel ahead of Lucas Mark?

I wouldn't, and one cost more than 3 times the other.
[/quote]

No mate, and this goes back to the age old "he wouldn't get in any of the top four squads".... Well when we've seen players like Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, David May, John O'Shea, Mikel, Anderson, Alan Smith, Klebersen, etc.. it's clearly a load of old bollocks. He's doing well and is a likeable lad and as said, he's young too. I'd persevere, definitely.
 
It seems that no matter how well Lucas plays, some people just won't give him credit.

An improving Lucas is much better than Denilson, Mikel and Carrick. All much more expensive players at the so called big 3 clubs.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44105.msg1281220#msg1281220 date=1297111103]
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=44105.msg1281219#msg1281219 date=1297110895]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44105.msg1280437#msg1280437 date=1297029618]
We can and will do better, let's not get carried away, but credit where it's due. I like the lad, he never let's his head drop and today was up against it with the likes of Essien and Mikel, he's doing well and could well be a good squaddie.
[/quote]

Would you have Mikel ahead of Lucas Mark?

I wouldn't, and one cost more than 3 times the other.
[/quote]

No mate, and this goes back to the age old "he wouldn't get in any of the top four squads".... Well when we've seen players like Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, David May, John O'Shea, Mikel, Anderson, Alan Smith, Klebersen, etc.. it's clearly a load of old bollocks. He's doing well and is a likeable lad and as said, he's young too. I'd persevere, definitely.
[/quote]

I agree. Just look at Fletcher - hardly an all singing marquee signing, but holds then together without much fanfare. Wouln't get into most dream teams, yet hasn't been replaced by the scum.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44105.msg1281221#msg1281221 date=1297111211]
I'm not a big Lucas fan but I thought he was great yesterday Pesam.
[/quote]

I definitely thought he had a very good second half Gene but it shouldn't overshadow the fact that he had a poor first half.

Another point is that Chelsea's tried to accommodate Torres,Drogba & Anelka which left them ostensibly with 3 in midfield; the useless Mikel, Lampard is is nowhere near his best after a long injury and Essien. They were outnumbered and had no width - this made our midfielders jobs easier.

Make no mistake about it Lucas will fuck-up again soon and with worse consequences than yesterday. I wish it wasn't so but it is - he's not a good player (albeit he played a good 45 minutes yesterday).
 
Lucas makes mistakes but so does everyone else. They'll be working on those little errors and upping his concentration levels.

He does need to release the ball faster and he actually is but needs to do it with greater consistency. He is still improving. While he will never set the world alight, he is turning into a fairly decent player.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44105.msg1281224#msg1281224 date=1297111499]
got caught in possession several times yesterday, needs to release the ball much faster.
[/quote]

Yep he made two mistakes that I can think of - all to do with dwelling on the ball but one of them was due to us, as a team, trying to play clever triangles in the wrong part of the pitch. Like other posters have said though, so did other people - make mistakes. Everthing wrong that Lucas does is completely and unfairly magnified at times - especially on here. The lad had a cracking game yesterday Neil. This isn't aimed at you in particular but people need to take the blinkers off and judge him on his actual performances. He has good and bad games like everyone but never seems to get much praise when it's duly deserved. When he does have a bad game though, and he does, he's fucking slaughtered. He's never going to be a classy skillful midfielder but I actually think he's earnt a place in our squad now. The lad's improved immensly and has worked his bollocks off to do so and in the face of huge criticism - I know, I gave it myself - and still will do when it's due. But it's about time people get off the 'Lucarse' bandwagon and start giving credit and criticism where it's due and not just the latter.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44105.msg1281271#msg1281271 date=1297114303]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44105.msg1281224#msg1281224 date=1297111499]
got caught in possession several times yesterday, needs to release the ball much faster.
[/quote]

Yep he made two mistakes that I can think of - all to do with dwelling on the ball but one of them was due to us, as a team, trying to play clever triangles in the wrong part of the pitch. Like other posters have said though, so did other people - make mistakes. Everthing wrong that Lucas does is completely and unfairly magnified at times - especially on here. The lad had a cracking game yesterday Neil. This isn't aimed at you in particular but people need to take the blinkers off and judge him on his actual performances. He has good and bad games like everyone but never seems to get much praise when it's duly deserved. When he does have a bad game though, and he does, he's fucking slaughtered. He's never going to be a classy skillful midfielder but I actually think he's earnt a place in our squad now. The lad's improved immensly and has worked his bollocks off to do so and in the face of huge criticism - I know, I gave it myself - and still will do when it's due. But it's about time people get off the 'Lucarse' bandwagon and start giving credit and criticism where it's due and not just the latter.
[/quote]

wasn't knocking lucas. was just saying he needs to release the ball faster, and he does.
I don't have a problem with lucas being in the team that some people do but he HAS to get down the gym so he can be stronger on the ball and he has to see passes earlier. you rearly see aurelio get caught in possession even though auerlio isn't more mobile, he just makes the correct pass, lucas needs to learn but I suspect he will be pushed out of the first team with whatever purchase we make in the summer and I'm pretty sure we will make a purchase becuase poulsen needs fucking off and replacing.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44105.msg1281273#msg1281273 date=1297115069]
wasn't knocking lucas. was just saying he needs to release the ball faster, and he does.
I don't have a problem with lucas being in the team that some people do but he HAS to get down the gym so he can be stronger on the ball and he has to see passes earlier. you rearly see aurelio get caught in possession even though auerlio isn't more mobile, he just makes the correct pass, lucas needs to learn but I suspect he will be pushed out of the first team with whatever purchase we make in the summer and I'm pretty sure we will make a purchase becuase poulsen needs fucking off and replacing.
[/quote]

Well, yes, exactly - there's more pressing problems than Lucas such as Poulsen
 
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