• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Makes sense Lacroix?

Status
Not open for further replies.

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member




[article]The 23-year-old has been a regular fixture for the German side in the opening months of the 2023-24 term, featuring in 12 Bundesliga games and finding the net against Bayer Leverkusen in October.

Lacroix joined Wolfsburg from French outfit Sochaux in the summer of 2020 and has since appeared 113 times for Die Wolfe, scoring on four occasions across all competitions.

It is understood that Wolfsburg are demanding at least £30m for one of their first-choice defenders, with the player's current deal at VOLKSWAGEN Arena expiring in 18 months.
[/article]
 
Last edited:
Graduated from Sochaux like Konate.



"He clocked the 4th-fastest speed of any player in Germany in 2020/21 at 22.2 mph (35.75 km/h), with only Jeremiah St. Juste, Erling Haaland and Alphonso Davies ahead of him."


ml2.jpg
ml3.jpg
ml.jpg
 
Dubious link, but definitely one we should look at. Right age and attributes.
 
Maxence Lacroix vs Gladbach
133 touches
88% pass accuracy
18 passes into final third
2/3 tackles won
6 clearances
6 recoveries
6/9 duels won
 
His career trajectory needs some studying. He presumably played with Konate at Sochaux academy, then came to Wolfsburg with high expectations as a France U20 international in 2020 and by all accounts his debut season was excellent as Wolfsburg finished in the top 4 and he started almost every game. I think he was rated as highly as Upamecano and Konate at that point. But that very summer the manager that guided them to success left.

The following season they finished 12th under 2 different managers with Lacroix still playing almost every game, but his season was tarnished by 3 (!) red cards. Then last season things stabilized under Nico Kovac, but Lacroix started only 18 games in the league, while this season he has started every game until the game against Werder on November 5th where he captained the team for the first time… and got sent off for 2 yellows. To be fair, he went straight into the team after serving the 1-match ban and things seem to be on the up again.

Seems like the initial hype has died down with him, but the eye-catching physical attributes are still there and now he has accumulated a lot more experience at a young age, which is an important factor for Klopp in signing players. Was he held back by the uncertainty at his club, or is there some deeper issue with the player that puts a ceiling on how good he can be despite being so fast and athletic? He seems like a potential smart moneyball signing - if our coaches believe he has another level in him. A quick look at the stats highlight 2 areas of concern - heading (only 48% of aerial duels won this season) and those red cards.
 
Last edited:
His career trajectory needs some studying. He presumably played with Konate in the Sochaux academy, then came to Wolfsburg with high expectations as a France U20 international in 2020 and by all accounts his debut season was excellent as Wolfsburg finished in the top 4 and he started almost every game. I think he was rated as highly as Upamecano and Konate at that point. But that very summer the manager that guided them to success left.

The following season they finished 12th under 2 different managers with Lacroix still playing almost every game, but his season was tarnished by 3 (!) red cards. Then last season things stabilized under Nico Kovac, but Lacroix started only 18 games in the league, while this season he has started every game until the game against Werder on November 5th where he captained the team for the first time… and got sent off for 2 yellows. To be fair, he went straight into the team after serving the 1-match ban and things seem to be on the up again.

Seems like the initial hype has died down with him, but the eye-catching physical attributes are still there and now he has accumulated a lot more experience at a young age, which is an important factor for Klopp in signing players. Was he held back by the uncertainty at his club, or is there some deeper issue with the player that puts a ceiling on how good he can be despite being so fast and athletic? He seems like a potential smart moneyball signing - if our coaches believe he has another level in him. A quick look at the stats highlight 2 areas of concern - heading (only 48% of aerial duels won this season) and those red cards.

Good post. You would think this is were we can use Schmadtke exerpience and knowledge.
If I remember correctly, van der Ven had even worse defensive stats.
 
Looking a bit deeper at the aerial duel stats, you can see that Lacroix is contesting more aerial duels than his CB partners - 4.8 per game compared to 2.7 for Jenz and 3.3 for Zesiger. So is his poor aerial duel win % partly explained by him having to be the main guy to get his head on crosses, even though that might not be his strongest attribute?

BTW our own Van der Berg is high up the aerial charts, unsurprisingly, with 3rd most contested (7.7 per game) and 69% win rate. If that were the main criteria, we should just bring him back.
 
Looking a bit deeper at the aerial duel stats, you can see that Lacroix is contesting more aerial duels than his CB partners - 4.8 per game compared to 2.7 for Jenz and 3.3 for Zesiger. So is his poor aerial duel win % partly explained by him having to be the main guy to get his head on crosses, even though that might not be his strongest attribute?

BTW our own Van der Berg is high up the aerial charts, unsurprisingly, with 3rd most contested (7.7 per game) and 69% win rate. If that were the main criteria, we should just bring him back.

Only problem is VDB is slow as fuck and not very good on the ball. We need far better quality if we're gonna seriously consider giving this new CB game time.

We need Elvedi, Bastoni, Todibo, Schlotterbeck, Milenkovic, Theate etc type quality.
 
Looking a bit deeper at the aerial duel stats, you can see that Lacroix is contesting more aerial duels than his CB partners - 4.8 per game compared to 2.7 for Jenz and 3.3 for Zesiger. So is his poor aerial duel win % partly explained by him having to be the main guy to get his head on crosses, even though that might not be his strongest attribute?

BTW our own Van der Berg is high up the aerial charts, unsurprisingly, with 3rd most contested (7.7 per game) and 69% win rate. If that were the main criteria, we should just bring him back.

Now there's a good point. He's been ok at Mainz. I wonder .... I have to admit I'd completely forgotten about him!

[Edit] Ah! So on the positive side he's played just about every game (when not suspended) but on the negative side they've only won once with a GD of -14!
 
This is what Klopp did during the press conference when the idea of getting another defender came up:

1aecc58fed6182bfc416cd6675e7ff8d.gif
 
Wolfsburg are 6 points above the relegation zone so I don't see them selling their best defender mid-season unless we put in a really good offer (which we won't).

We'll probably wait till the summer thinking he'll be cheaper when he has 12 months left on his contract. Then, Newcastle or Chelsea will jump right in, and Schamdtke will say pass.
 
Won’t be half as disappointing come the final day and we lose out on the title by a point because Gomez scored a last min OG.
You do like tempting fate. The bigger concern is our defense is totally depleted towards the latter part of the season as Matip is already out, Konate and Gomez are just as susceptible to injuries and we are then reliant on VVD and Quansah. @StevieM you're point on VVD, yeah he is rested in cup games and europa cup but for how long? Do you think either Gomez or Konate can remain fit for the remainder of the season?
 
You do like tempting fate. The bigger concern is our defense is totally depleted towards the latter part of the season as Matip is already out, Konate and Gomez are just as susceptible to injuries and we are then reliant on VVD and Quansah. @StevieM you're point on VVD, yeah he is rested in cup games and europa cup but for how long? Do you think either Gomez or Konate can remain fit for the remainder of the season?

That's our squad management not being adequate for the last few years, we've kept too many injury prone players and left their contracts to expire.....otherwise fans wouldn't bemoan our fragile defence virtually every other week.

I know Klopp likes playing down signings but I don't think he's even had the chance yet to discuss with the owners about the plans for January given how busy he is prepping the team during this schedule. In my mind we're signing another CB, even if it's a loan. You don't lose one of your starting CB's for the rest of the season & do nothing.
 
That's our squad management not being adequate for the last few years, we've kept too many injury prone players and left their contracts to expire.....otherwise fans wouldn't bemoan our fragile defence virtually every other week.

I know Klopp likes playing down signings but I don't think he's even had the chance yet to discuss with the owners about the plans for January given how busy he is prepping the team during this schedule. In my mind we're signing another CB, even if it's a loan. You don't lose one of your starting CB's for the rest of the season & do nothing.
I agree we need reinforcement in MF and in defence. However its increasingly likely that we will not see any forays into the transfer market, we will have to seek solutions internally. I would want to bring back Nat Philips and hope Spanish Naby is fit for when Endo goes to Japan and Thiago is resurrected too

This is from the Offal

[article]
Read the latest information on injuries, suspensions and availability in the Liverpool men's squad.
Last updated on December 5
  • Injuries
Thiago Alcantara
Thiago has been sidelined since requiring surgery on a hip issue that ruled him out of the final weeks of the 2022-23 campaign, and remains unavailable for selection.
Jürgen Klopp on November 3: "It's an ongoing thing and we cannot put any kind of pressure on there as well. We expect him to be back - and I would say probably the start of the New Year. It's now already November, so that would mean another four weeks. I would say that's probably a realistic thing to try and I can't wait, to be honest, to have him back. The player he is is just exceptional. I understand you ask, but it's nothing where we can have a week by week update because that will not change a lot in this moment."
Stefan Bajcetic
Klopp on November 3: "We don't know [when he will be back]. With Stefan it's, again, one of these things. Stefan's quality, potential, talent, everybody could see and it's incredible - what a player - but the body was not ready yet. They are still growing these boys and they are all different; we have other players with a different, what is it, skeleton, a different body where OK that's fine and for other players it is a bit too early.
"We just have to put the break on again and just wait until that's all fine. Then Liverpool FC has a wonderful player to use, but there is absolutely no time that we can put on that and we will not. We just have to wait. He is here, he is training, he is doing his stuff, we are building his [fitness]. We know how good he is and now we have to make sure we help him to get a body to show that, and not only once but then three times a week. We will get there [and that will be] very good news for the club, [but] in the moment we cannot use him and that's all."
Alisson Becker
The goalkeeper is set for a spell on the sidelines as a result of an injury sustained during the Premier League draw at Manchester City on November 25.
Klopp on December 5: "Obviously Ali is closer but not available for [Sheffield United] definitely."
Diogo Jota
Like Alisson, Jota felt an injury during the clash with City at Etihad Stadium, which the manager subsequently confirmed was 'a bit more severe'.
Klopp on December 5: "He was running yesterday outside - on his birthday. And everything goes in the right direction, but nobody told me he will be back in team training today. No, there is still some time."
Joel Matip
The centre-back sustained an issue during a challenge in the second half of Liverpool's win over Fulham on December 3 that forced him from the field.
Klopp on December 5: "I don't know exactly [how long he will be out] but it doesn't look good, that's something we can say. The scan is not done yet so we don't know exactly, but it's not great. From the first second it was clear, we spoke to him and said, 'No, that's not good.' But how long, I don't know."
Andy Robertson
The left-back has undergone surgery on the shoulder he injured while playing for Scotland in October and is facing a spell out.
Klopp on October 25: "Robbo had surgery and [it] all went well, as good as it could be, so the recovery starts after he wakes up. I think it happened this morning. That's it. We don't know how long it will take or whatever, but the first step is done, that's good."
PUBLISHED 5TH DECEMBER 2023

[/article]
 
You do like tempting fate. The bigger concern is our defense is totally depleted towards the latter part of the season as Matip is already out, Konate and Gomez are just as susceptible to injuries and we are then reliant on VVD and Quansah. @StevieM you're point on VVD, yeah he is rested in cup games and europa cup but for how long? Do you think either Gomez or Konate can remain fit for the remainder of the season?

I don’t know mate - but we won the league with Matip injured for pretty much of the entire season, Gomez not getting injured and Lovren as back up - so I think we have more and better options - Gomez, Konate & Quansah with in extreme situations - Endo & Badger capable of playing at CB and Nat Phillips potentially back at the club in January.

Is it enough - maybe.

Do I think we should buy just anyone - nope - ab-so-fucking-lutely not - they need to be good enough to be at least as good as what we have and be able to immediately pick up our patterns of play.

If one of our actual targets is available at a price that makes sense - a la Diaz & Gakpo - then fuck yeah!!! All in baby!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dee
I don’t know mate - but we won the league with Matip injured for pretty much of the entire season, Gomez not getting injured and Lovren as back up - so I think we have more and better options - Gomez, Konate & Quansah with in extreme situations - Endo & Badger capable of playing at CB and Nat Phillips potentially back at the club in January.

Is it enough - maybe.

Do I think we should buy just anyone - nope - ab-so-fucking-lutely not - they need to be good enough to be at least as good as what we have and be able to immediately pick up our patterns of play.

If one of our actual targets is available at a price that makes sense - a la Diaz & Gakpo - then fuck yeah!!! All in baby!!!

[article]

If you had to put your house on Gomez and Konate staying fit for the reminder of the season, you wouldn't so why risk it on the PL? Do you know for sure Nats has clause which will allow us to recall him?
Endo, 5ft 10 missing for all Feb and Spanish Naby who has yet feature in a full game this season, they in your eyes are better option than a recognised CB who could cost £20-30M?[/article]
 
Don’t like it - Bajcetic is too young and fragile to play CB in the Premier League. I think after the remaining 4 CBs it’s Endo for emergencies and then we’re fucked.
 
Don’t like it - Bajcetic is too young and fragile to play CB in the Premier League. I think after the remaining 4 CBs it’s Endo for emergencies and then we’re fucked.

If everyone are injured then its Szobo as the libero. He can do everything. Probably a reserve GK as well.
 
[article]

If you had to put your house on Gomez and Konate staying fit for the reminder of the season, you wouldn't so why risk it on the PL? Do you know for sure Nats has clause which will allow us to recall him?
Endo, 5ft 10 missing for all Feb and Spanish Naby who has yet feature in a full game this season, they in your eyes are better option than a recognised CB who could cost £20-30M?[/article]

Do we have £20-30m to chuck around on a 5th choice CB and does that mean we’re not focusing on signing a new CB in the summer window?

It entirely depends on who the player is - if we’re bringing forward a summer target - yes, let’s do it.

However, if you’re suggesting we spend £20-30m on just a somebody - then no, we’ll likely take our chances.

If it’s a cheapie like Lloyd-Kelly - then no because he’s as injury prone as our current lot.

If there’s another temp loan signing like a Kabak that’s of high quality - then maybe, but no-one springs to mind.

Given Nats loan deal runs until Jan 2024 and isn’t for the full season - then yes, if we want him back as additional cover - that’s the easy solution.
 
Do we have £20-30m to chuck around on a 5th choice CB and does that mean we’re not focusing on signing a new CB in the summer window?

It entirely depends on who the player is - if we’re bringing forward a summer target - yes, let’s do it.

However, if you’re suggesting we spend £20-30m on just a somebody - then no, we’ll likely take our chances.

If it’s a cheapie like Lloyd-Kelly - then no because he’s as injury prone as our current lot.

If there’s another temp loan signing like a Kabak that’s of high quality - then maybe, but no-one springs to mind.

Given Nats loan deal runs until Jan 2024 and isn’t for the full season - then yes, if we want him back as additional cover - that’s the easy solution.
Klopp made it reasonably clear he didn’t have the ability to magic money out of nowhere for a signing and he also suggested very strongly he wants to retain Matip beyond the summer. Further Brodgers has suggested Celtic aren’t interested in extending Nat’s loan as they have their first choices returning and they’re out of Europe
So next six months will be VVD, Gomez, Konate, Quansah and Phillips. In summer swap out Phillips and re-add Joel
 
Klopp made it reasonably clear he didn’t have the ability to magic money out of nowhere for a signing and he also suggested very strongly he wants to retain Matip beyond the summer. Further Brodgers has suggested Celtic aren’t interested in extending Nat’s loan as they have their first choices returning and they’re out of Europe
So next six months will be VVD, Gomez, Konate, Quansah and Phillips. In summer swap out Phillips and re-add Joel

That all makes total sense - but the transfer junkies need their fix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dee
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom