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Middle East Violence (content may offend)

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Atlas said:
It's important to me, personally, because of the specific and direct accusations against me for years on the forum.
People can be hypocrites when it comes to picking a favourite player and not accepting any criticism of them while criticising others, yup whatever.
I don't think it should be okay'd for what we are seeing in Gaza.
I like any other person care more about my family and people like me, that's normal. To the point where I don't unequivocally say this shit is wrong.. nope.

I don't think I've really started outing people... yet.
Click to expand...

Im not sure anyone has said they are happy with people being killed, with the obvious exception, have they? I think the discussion more centre's around whether that is right or wrong, but more what the cause or where the fault it is, whether it's Hamas that have called it on, or Israel have, and thus who needs to be held to account for all these people dying.

I don't know what accusations you're talking about, so I'm probably missing something.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Im not sure anyone has said they are happy with people being killed, with the obvious exception, have they? I think the discussion more centre's around whether that is right or wrong, but more what the cause or where the fault it is, whether it's Hamas that have called it on, or Israel have, and thus who needs to be held to account for all these people dying.

I don't know what accusations you're talking about, so I'm probably missing something.
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Agree, I don't believe anyone has said they are happy with people being killed and starved.
You'd also think though that people are clear, with the exception of one, that this is utterly deplorable and wrong.

RE cause, I think it's then letting Israel off the hook when trying to blame Hamas for IDF sniping kids in the head or withholding aid/or killing those trying to get aid.

Accusations of antisemitism (cos I said Jews have a famous sense of humour and Oy Vey) for sure and showing my true colours.. just in these threads.
But, as made points before.
All this distracts from the real issue.
 
Atlas said:
RE cause, I think it's then letting Israel off the hook when trying to blame Hamas for IDF sniping kids in the head or withholding aid/or killing those trying to get aid.

Accusations of antisemitism (cos I said Jews have a famous sense of humour and Oy Vey) for sure and showing my true colours.. just in these threads.
But, as made points before.
All this distracts from the real issue.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, that it let's Israel off the hook. I'm not saying that was my view, just that that tends to be where there is disagreement on the reasons for why so many are dead, or are dying.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Asim, I sincerely hope you're not pointing a finger at me here.
We've had our back n' forth for 25+ years ... We've talked many many times privately about many subjects, and have always been respectful and shared information, which we've both always kept private. I don't think either of us would have had those discussions if we felt there was 'public accusations' (i.e. no trust) etc.
So ... I don't think I've directed accusations against you that have been insulting etc etc. However, if I did, I apologize and withdraw them all.
I saw earlier you've been through some things personally - and I'm sorry you've gone through any shit, and I hope you find peace n' quiet.

That is all from me.
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As you've outed yourself and forgot to log out of your throw away account I'll just add on here.

Firstly, na I'm not really talking about you here. Not directly at me anyways though I find your approach pretty despicable and as @keniget champions open and honest, it's not really that at all.

Seems you have fumbled and people will now realise that @Accedalyday is actually @LeTallecWiz, I've actually known since late Jan after some posts you made. I tried to be respectful cos you likely had your reasons and left it but I didn't like or appreciate the comments in various threads. I think some posts have been lame and trying to either distract or divert conversations, a well used tactic it seems.

People are welcome to go back and have a look at the comments on this thread and other threads to make up their own mind but like you say 20+ years of trying to be civil, learn, trying to find common ground etc, which I feel I've been engaged in in good faith goes down the toilet tbh.

I'll find some peace and quiet when I stop seeing dead babies on my feed.
I'll probably stop seeing that when the world stands up to Israeli aggression and calls out the lies, BS and genocidal psychopaths gunning down kids.
 
Atlas said:
As you've outed yourself and forgot to log out of your throw away account I'll just add on here.

Firstly, na I'm not really talking about you here. Not directly at me anyways though I find your approach pretty despicable and as @keniget champions open and honest, it's not really that at all.

Seems you have fumbled and people will now realise that @Accedalyday is actually @LeTallecWiz, I've actually known since late Jan after some posts you made. I tried to be respectful cos you likely had your reasons and left it but I didn't like or appreciate the comments in various threads. I think some posts have been lame and trying to either distract or divert conversations, a well used tactic it seems.

People are welcome to go back and have a look at the comments on this thread and other threads to make up their own mind but like you say 20+ years of trying to be civil, learn, trying to find common ground etc, which I feel I've been engaged in in good faith goes down the toilet tbh.

I'll find some peace and quiet when I stop seeing dead babies on my feed.
I'll probably stop seeing that when the world stands up to Israeli aggression and calls out the lies, BS and genocidal psychopaths gunning down kids.
Click to expand...

Pretty despicable? Ok. I am not going to go into my thinking or reality - but it was a choice I made to stay 'in touch' with a community I care about (as I needed a break regardless), and more importantly, to ensure I didn't slip and say things that could hurt people (be it with something I've said, or sharing things that were said to me in private). Things have been said here on this thread that I think crossed lines - and I thought I'd go down that path if I stay as LTW. Was it the right the decision? At the time, yes - though I can understand why you think it's dishonest.

As for this thread - I should have stayed completely out - it was a mistake to interact not as myself, and I agree with your overall conclusion.

I'd like to correct you and say that you didn't try to be civil, you (& I) were civil etc. Our discussions were in good faith (and fruitful to me many times). However, I didn't feel that was really possible anymore when I made my decision (I've done this with many 'real world' friends in the last year too).
 
There should be no starvation, the aid that enters the strips can feed everyone for years.
The reason there's starvation is Hamas. They withold food to make the people hungry. it's a media campaign which manipulates the empathy and the humanitarian values that the Western world holds.
This is what terror organizations do.

For example there is the aid centers that have been setup to feed the people directly.
This is the solution, and the UN is against it and insists on the old system which routes the aid directly to Hamas.
The West is so incredibly stupid, and especially this generation of Europeans.
Absolute morons.


View: https://x.com/Mr_Andrew_Fox/status/1949765922245193991
 
TorresElNino9 said:
There should be no starvation, the aid that enters the strips can feed everyone for years.
The reason there's starvation is Hamas. They withold food to make the people hungry. it's a media campaign which manipulates the empathy and the humanitarian values that the Western world holds.
This is what terror organizations do.

For example there is the aid centers that have been setup to feed the people directly.
This is the solution, and the UN is against it and insists on the old system which routes the aid directly to Hamas.
The West is so incredibly stupid, and especially this generation of Europeans.
Absolute morons.


View: https://x.com/Mr_Andrew_Fox/status/1949765922245193991
Click to expand...



Funny how confident people are in their media takes when the IDF has banned all foreign journalists from entering Gaza since October.

You're watching highly curated content from one side, then calling everyone else brainwashed. Meanwhile, independent journalists—who might show you what's really happening—aren’t even allowed in.

That’s not an information war. That’s a lockdown on truth, enforced by the same military some here defend without question.

But sure, let’s call the rest of the world “morons” for not trusting PR videos shot from behind Israeli guns.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
There wasn't starvation when Israel didn't block aid and allowed NGOs handle it, there is starvation when they insist on controlling it.
It's not hard to work out that you're falling for the propoganda.
Click to expand...
Yeah it just the absolute other way around, but don't let me stop you from following Hamas media campaigns like they are the pied piper and you are a rat.

In the meantime, there's a siege on the Druze in Syria, I patiently await the topics and discussions on the subject.
 
TorresElNino9 said:
Yeah it just the absolute other way around, but don't let me stop you from following Hamas media campaigns like they are the pied piper and you are a rat
Click to expand...

You're being fed lies and you're believing them. The whole world knows you're being fed lies.

TorresElNino9 said:
In the meantime, there's a siege on the Druze in Syria, I patiently await the topics and discussions on the subject.
Click to expand...

Look the other way, don't look at us!! Other people are doing atrocious things too!!!
 
TorresElNino9 said:
Yeah it just the absolute other way around, but don't let me stop you from following Hamas media campaigns like they are the pied piper and you are a rat.

In the meantime, there's a siege on the Druze in Syria, I patiently await the topics and discussions on the subject.
Click to expand...

Hamas media campaigns?

Lol.

Let the global media in if you want unbiased reporting.

Or keep claiming it's "for their own safety" that no impartial parties are allowed to report on the ground.

Even you are smart enough to know you're talking absolute bollocks.
 
TorresElNino9 said:
Whataboutism shows hypocrisy mate.
That's what you are, congrats.
Click to expand...

It doesn't, if you follow that line of thinking, it precludes you from criticizing anything, as it's impossible to criticize everything equally.

But I'm ok with being a hypocrite anyway. I'd rather be a hypocrite, than someone denying the atrocities their own country is committing.
 
Serious question: What do people make of the ban on international journalists in Gaza? I know it's been been a Piers Morgan talking point lately, and some are turned off the discussion because of him, but I think it warrants serious thought.

Since October, Israel has not allowed any foreign journalists to enter, other than a few sympathetic "influencers". Not even embedded with the IDF. This is unprecedented in modern conflict zones. No impartial observers on the ground. No global media. Just state-approved footage and interpretations.

If the IDF's actions are just and lawful, why the blackout? Does the most moral army in the world ever (tm) have something to hide, or is there any actual rationale that anyone with sense is still claiming?

I'm genuinely curious whether anyone can defend this as reasonable, beyond the well-worn “for their safety” line. Most war zones are dangerous, yet media access is still granted. Journos and their employers usually decide based on the risk. What makes this different?

Even if you support Israel's broader strategy, surely the suppression of independent reporting should give you pause?
 
They are hiding the truth that’s why. The latest stories is the aid being flown into Gaza had UK journalists on board who were allowed to look out the window but not film it. Why? Because the world would see the area flattened. No buildings, no land, nothing. I guess Hamas were hiding under strawberries.
 
MomoWASright said:
They are hiding the truth that’s why. The latest stories is the aid being flown into Gaza had UK journalists on board who were allowed to look out the window but not film it. Why? Because the world would see the area flattened. No buildings, no land, nothing. I guess Hamas were hiding under strawberries.
Click to expand...

yeah, but other than us antisemitic victims of bias and group-think, what do others have to say?
 

View: https://x.com/AssalRad/status/1950096980887109838

At some point journalists will get in, they'll see death and destruction. The type of thing Israeli politicians were saying they'll do back in Dec 23, people were excusing the language and saying it didn't matter, or those that were saying it were not relevant.
The same people were saying "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" was genocidal.
They've now sat and watched as Israel has committed a holocaust on Gazans.
 
Atlas said:

View: https://x.com/AssalRad/status/1950096980887109838

At some point journalists will get in, they'll see death and destruction. The type of thing Israeli politicians were saying they'll do back in Dec 23, people were excusing the language and saying it didn't matter, or those that were saying it were not relevant.
The same people were saying "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" was genocidal.
They've now sat and watched as Israel has committed a holocaust on Gazans.
Click to expand...


I can't bring myself to liking this post, but it hits the nail on the head
 
Or even, Israel is in full control of whether Palestine is a state or not, according to Mr Starmer. Doesn't matter what the Palestinians or 140 other countries think.
 
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