Middle East Violence (content may offend)

[Judge Jules]

That's just not what I said at all.

Hamas murdered innocent civilians on oct 7th, it was evil, horrific and a war crime.

Anyone directly or indirectly involved with those crimes should stand trial.

I maintain I took issue with the purported lies of beheaded babies and babies hanging on clothes lines it didnt happen.

What did happen was parents murdered in front of their children, I couldn't begin to imagine that horror. Its horrific and those who committed those crimes should face trial.. or just burn.
I read a story of children blown to bits with a grenade, it was evil personified.

The stories of sexual abuse also, stories of women abused before being murdered.
May those who perpetrated that crime be forever condemned and punished in this life and the next.

You can look at the treatment of Palestinians by Israelis and says its horrible and that those who committed Oct 7th took it too far and deserved to be caught and held accountable.

You can also say Israel had an absolute unequivocal right to go after those same people and get back the hostages.
Once Israel started shooting white flag waving old ladies, bombing hospitals, leaving premature babies for dead, politicians calling for genocide, politicians calling for ethnic cleansing, blowing up palestinan buildings for yojmur wifes birthday, set dogs upon a guy witg down syndrome kill 20k kids then you have to unequivocally condemn it.

While I wish you'd said this of your own accord rather than having to be challenged first, I thank you for the clarity of what you say above about Oct.7th and repeat that I condemn the Israeli government's settlement policy and the effects it's been having on what's happening in Gaza. I've said elsewhere that both sides have to abandon absolutist versions of their respective agendas and I stand by that.

 

[MomoWASright]

What Hamas did was abhorrent. Israel’s reaction is abhorrent. Both things can be true and have been called that throughout.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

The bias is apparent in the way that criticism has been aimed solely at Israel throughout, since well before the war on Hamas started. Oct.7 is one example, with no mention being made of it unless those of us who disagree with the prevailing view here raised the matter. Another is the way Israel was continually criticised for firing on Gaza while not a single word was ever said about the rockets fired from there at Israel daily until the IDF went in after Oct.7.

My own view is that anti-semitism isn't the main driver behind this approach. I see it rather as a mixture of understandable and, yes, justified horror at the headlines and videos (for info I'm Catholic and have met the priest in charge of the Catholic church - the only one in Gaza - which was recently hit) and groupthink on this forum. I'm quite sure you're no anti-semite.

I definitely think people are more critical of Israel, yes. But, I think there are reasons for that, and I don't think it's bias. Reasons being, our governments aren't supporting Hamas, they are financially and politically supporting Israel, so we can and should care about where our tax money is going. Israel is the dominant power, it's not an equal relationship, it's normal to feel more empathy for empoverished and hold the larger power to a higher level of accountability. Also, I don't think there is any real debate(at least on here), about Hamas, there's no one to convince about them, everyone agrees, hence it won't be talked about as much.

I also think I'm biased against Russia in the Ukraine war, if that helps, but I also try to understand their reasoning for doing what they're doing. Maybe it's down to me being from a country that was in, what I consider, a similar situation to Palestinians, at one point.

 

[Atlas]

I don't think both siding the current situation goes anyway near far enough to describe the evil of what the Israelis are doing in Gaza.
I have mentioned what I posted before, it's not new and I didn't need coaxing. I clarified.

You mentioned a few times you have held back because others/I didn't go far enough, I clarified and well you clarified where you are at with the genocide of Gazans. I wonder if you had a word about Israel and the trauma they have inflicted on the Catholics in Gaza when you spoke to the priest. I wonder if he was biased against the Jews.

I think it's insidious to suggest there is groupthink to have a bias against Israel.
And probably worse to suggest antisemitism is at the heart of wanted Israel to stop murdering children.

I don't ever want to come across as a cunt and so pls forgive me if you think I have but like I said genocide has to be a red line. I'm just surprised and shocked those who have heard stories and tales of the genocide their elders went through are not unequivocal in their condemnation.

 

[Atlas]

Israel levelling thousands of Gaza civilian buildings in controlled demolitions - BBC News

Investigation by BBC Verify using satellite images and verified footage to show the extent of destruction in Gaza, where the Israeli military have carried out demolitions to raze entire towns and suburbs

www.bbc.co.uk