Pre Match - Forest (H) - Sunday

[moron]

I can't remember the last time our midfielders made so many progressive passes that breaks the line. It's all of them, instinctively, even Endo.

We are actually dangerous in midfield now.

I have not seen the game but have seen enough to suggest that this is what this new midfield can do now with the talent, it just constitutes ballers and not recycling waste managers who can just run non stop. For those that get upset whenevet Hendo got slated... well what you see now is what we wanted all along.

 

[Modo]

Was he really shit today ? Did he do anything of note as a DM ? I was one of those desperate for us to get him, but we did not move for him.

Right now, I so want us to get a european based DM if the Andre deal falls through.

Oh he's not a player for the big teams, that's for sure.
Very average player, slow, unathletic, just seemed a bit lost in midfield. Sounds harsh but that's what I saw. We were running circles around him.
I mean that tells you all you need to know about the Dutch league. It's a big step up to go from there to the Premier League and especially one of the top teams.
Just look at Man U and all their failed signings from the Dutch league.
You have to be a very special player to make the leap.

 

[Modo]

I worry that we're playing Gakpo in the wrong position. It's quite obvious that we signed a left winger and are trying to convert him to a no 10 or a striker, but it's not looking great.
I'm willing to give him time but it just looks a bit awkward in certain situations. He doesn't look that good in tight spaces and he's not a great finisher either.
He's world class on the counter though. Running towards the opposite goal with space and the ball at his feet, he's nearly unstoppable, but those situations rarely happen for us. Unless we're nearing the end of the game and we're already up by one or two goals and the opponents are throwing the kitchen sink at us.

 

[StevieM]

I worry that we're playing Gakpo in the wrong position. It's quite obvious that we signed a left winger and are trying to convert him to a no 10 or a striker, but it's not looking great.
I'm willing to give him time but it just looks a bit awkward in certain situations. He doesn't look that good in tight spaces and he's not a great finisher either.
He's world class on the counter though. Running towards the opposite goal with space and the ball at his feet, he's nearly unstoppable, but those situations rarely happen for us. Unless we're nearing the end of the game and we're already up by one or two goals and the opponents are throwing the kitchen sink at us.

I see it completely differently - he’s really good in tight spaces with the ball and his finishing can be excellent - but he plays more as a false 9, so he’s deep which means he’s often too far from the goal to score.

It’s a great option - particularly when the midfielders like Curtis & Slobbers are pushing up high and pressing.

 

[Hyena]

I worry that we're playing Gakpo in the wrong position. It's quite obvious that we signed a left winger and are trying to convert him to a no 10 or a striker, but it's not looking great.
I'm willing to give him time but it just looks a bit awkward in certain situations. He doesn't look that good in tight spaces and he's not a great finisher either.
He's world class on the counter though. Running towards the opposite goal with space and the ball at his feet, he's nearly unstoppable, but those situations rarely happen for us. Unless we're nearing the end of the game and we're already up by one or two goals and the opponents are throwing the kitchen sink at us.

Those are similar attributes to Darwin, who seems to be doing fine now. It will always be difficult to score against low block teams but that's the position we are in. There will always be transitions that we can take advantage of.

I thought Gakpo was terrible yesterday but that was more a case of being rusty / back from injury.

 

[Frogfish]

I see it completely differently - he’s really good in tight spaces with the ball and his finishing can be excellent - but he plays more as a false 9, so he’s deep which means he’s often too far from the goal to score.

It’s a great option - particularly when the midfielders like Curtis & Slobbers are pushing up high and pressing.

Agree. I'm not sure what Modo is seeing but Gakpo is great in tight spaces, he has control, technique and vision as well as pace. I love it when he drops off, with Szobo, Mac +1 we control the midfield and he has the skill and pace to dribble through midfield or to join the other two forwards on a break.

 

[rurikbird]

Agree. I'm not sure what Modo is seeing but Gakpo is great in tight spaces, he has control, technique and vision as well as pace. I love it when he drops off, with Szobo, Mac +1 we control the midfield and he has the skill and pace to dribble through midfield or to join the other two forwards on a break.

Gakpo also has pretty good goal-poaching instincts - he knows where to position himself to score a tap-in.

 

[Frogfish]

Good summary. The avalanche of compliments the lad got after the Toulouse game worried me a bit, not because he didn't play well but because that kind of reaction to one admittedly excellent performance can heap too much expectation too early on a young player. I think he's got what it takes, but he's going to need time to develop it to the standard we need and then to keep it there.

One excellent performance? He was excellent against Everton, his first PL start in the cauldron of a derby, too. We should remember the excuses given for Jones (22 and 16 months older than Gravy) & Elliott (20) : "they are all young lads (Gravy is 21) and no one expects them to be consistent at that age" (Bellingham an exception to the rule).
That however doesn't mean they shouldn't be starting regularly (they clearly are) or that they are not ready to start.

 

[Modo]

Those are similar attributes to Darwin, who seems to be doing fine now. It will always be difficult to score against low block teams but that's the position we are in. There will always be transitions that we can take advantage of.

I thought Gakpo was terrible yesterday but that was more a case of being rusty / back from injury.

Yeah you're right could be form

 

[jan]

Jones is ahead of him regardless. When Jones is fit and not banned he’s in our midfield.

Absolutely, he comes straight back in for me now with his suspension over

About Gakpo, Klopp started playing him on the left wing and he was so bad that more than half of this board thought we bought a dud. Don't want to see him there ever again

 

[Brizzle]

I see Gakpo being best at centre forward and weakest on the wing, but maybe that is because this isn't a league where wingers get space to run in to.

The challange is really that he is very different to Darwin in that role, and the team is now setting up to look for the kinds of runs Darwin makes, and that is different to how Gakpo looks to play

 

[Modo]

Gakpo also has pretty good goal-poaching instincts - he knows where to position himself to score a tap-in.

I don't disagree, but that doesn't make him a great finisher.

 

[moron]

Absolutely, he comes straight back in for me now with his suspension over

About Gakpo, Klopp started playing him on the left wing and he was so bad that more than half of this board thought we bought a dud. Don't want to see him there ever again

When he plays for his national team - does he not play on the right wing ? I am sure that was his starting position in the WC games. I think he is a very good player but the problem is - is he the type of player that needs to play every game to get him playing well consistently - it seems like that's what it took last season. If this is the case then we have a problem long term - and we will be dependent on the number of games we have to offer them. Right now we are in a good place as we are in all competitions, therefore we have an opportunity to offer games to all our fringe players and those we rotate in the first team.

 

[Frogfish]

When he plays for his national team - does he not play on the right wing ? I am sure that was his starting position in the WC games. I think he is a very good player but the problem is - is he the type of player that needs to play every game to get him playing well consistently - it seems like that's what it took last season. If this is the case then we have a problem long term - and we will be dependent on the number of games we have to offer them. Right now we are in a good place as we are in all competitions, therefore we have an opportunity to offer games to all our fringe players and those we rotate in the first team.

At the WC he was on the LW.

 

[Fabio]

Just fucking play Nunez at 9 and gakpo as backup.

 

[Donavan Ried]

That's not an excuse for a 21 year old player. He was subbed in the second half too so it's not like he played 90 mins.
I think we had a few players who were gash to be honest.
Gravenberch
Trent
Elliott
Tsimikas
We were carried by the great work Macca and Szobo did in midfield plus the three players upfront.

Still not sure about Gravenberch. Yes he played well against Toulouse, but you could argue that Toulouse are not quite Premier League level.
For me he needs to raise his game.

 

[Frogfish]

Still not sure about Gravenberch. Yes he played well against Toulouse, but you could argue that Toulouse are not quite Premier League level.
For me he needs to raise his game.

You mean like he did against Everton? Fuck me.

 

[Whaddapie]

You mean like he did against Everton? Fuck me.

But you could argue that everton are not quite Premier League level...

 

[Modo]

Even though he had a bad game we need to keep in mind that he's new to this league and very young. I'm honestly a bit surprised over how well he's played in certain games, especially against Brighton away.
He's gonna have ups and downs. Let's give him the same time Jones and Elliott got and are getting.

 

[jan]

When he plays for his national team - does he not play on the right wing ? I am sure that was his starting position in the WC games. I think he is a very good player but the problem is - is he the type of player that needs to play every game to get him playing well consistently - it seems like that's what it took last season. If this is the case then we have a problem long term - and we will be dependent on the number of games we have to offer them. Right now we are in a good place as we are in all competitions, therefore we have an opportunity to offer games to all our fringe players and those we rotate in the first team.

Yea but internationals are generally a bit shit and the Dutch seem to lose every time they face anyone half decent these days anyway

 

[rurikbird]

Finally watched the game, a few observations:

• MacAllister was MOTM for me – the way he ran the game, won his duels, was positionally spot-on time and time again to pick up loose balls or make interceptions – all of this just showed convincingly why Klopp kept persisting with him at #6 despite a couple poor or middling performances since the International break. Does it prove Macca is the ideal #6 for every opponent and every situation – probably not, but on Sunday he really showed his best qualities. On a sidenote, his ability to conduct play from midfield allowed Trent to play more conservatively for most of the game, picking and choosing his moments to burst into attack.
• The developing understanding between Salah and Szoboszlai on the right flank was brilliant to watch; Szobo having the legs to constantly make the runs on the outside meant Salah could stay more inside, where he is at his most dangerous as a chance creator. Unfortunately Gravenberch didn't come close to replicating this dynamic on the left; don't know if he was more nervous playing in the Premier League than a European competition or simply didn't fully recover physically from Thursday, but he started with 2 poor touches and spent most of the rest of the game hiding. Things like that happen to young players, he has plenty of time on his side.
• Love watching Nunez so full of confidence; he is showing he can be a lot more than just a finisher, that he can really lead the line. One of the review shows I was watching mentioned how his movement now is much more that of a conventional centre-forward compared to last season when he was all over the place. I want to see him score a lot more goals from 2 yards just like he did on Sunday – this is what the likes of Lewandowski built their careers doing and what every team needs.
• Forest's Murillo (briefly linked to us in the summer) didn't do his team any favours when he tried to dribble through our midfield the very first time Forest players ventured into our half of the pitch in large numbers – and of course we punished that mistake ruthlessly. This is the type of careless mental mistake that makes a manager tear their hair out (not that Steve Cooper has much left to tear out) and why technical and physical attributes alone are not enough to succeed at the top level.
• This was probably our most complete performance of the season, a sign the players are settling into the new tactical system and are starting to trust it and each other. The only exception was the last 5 minutes of each half, when we lost concentration and let the opponent into it. A lot of the game was spent in second gear; I can't wait to see the full power unleashed against a worthy opponent.

 

[Frogfish]

Even though he had a bad game we need to keep in mind that he's new to this league and very young. I'm honestly a bit surprised over how well he's played in certain games, especially against Brighton away.
He's gonna have ups and downs. Let's give him the same time Jones and Elliott got and are getting.

Quiffer !

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/pre-match-forest-h-sunday.197862/page-8#post-2264441

 

[Silver Sean]

Still not sure about Gravenberch. Yes he played well against Toulouse, but you could argue that Toulouse are not quite Premier League level.
For me he needs to raise his game.

He's 21, at a new club, didn't get any playing time last year, and just started playing with new team mates in anew system. But yeah, he needs to raise his game. Christ.

 

[tomasjj]

macca was superb when I wasn't nodding off

 

[Donavan Ried]

He's 21, at a new club, didn't get any playing time last year, and just started playing with new team mates in anew system. But yeah, he needs to raise his game. Christ.

There are players younger than 21 doing better than him, just like players at a new clib with new team mates, and yes, they are also having to learn a new system

So, make as many excuses as you want, for me he just doesn't cut the mustard.

But I am hoping that will change

 

[Donavan Ried]

You mean like he did against Everton? Fuck me.

No I mean Toulouse

 

[StevieM]

There are players younger than 21 doing better than him, just like players at a new clib with new team mates, and yes, they are also having to learn a new system

So, make as many excuses as you want, for me he just doesn't cut the mustard.

But I am hoping that will change

Who are these players under 21 and players at a new club that are doing better than him?

It’s certainly not Amrabat - who you were desperate to sign - how’s Utd’s other signings going - given that they never sign bad players?

 

[Silver Sean]

There are players younger than 21 doing better than him, just like players at a new clib with new team mates, and yes, they are also having to learn a new system

So, make as many excuses as you want, for me he just doesn't cut the mustard.

But I am hoping that will change

I’m all my years on forums I’ve never known anyone with so little understanding of football. Quite an achievement.

 

[the count]

I’m all my years on forums I’ve never known anyone with so little understanding of football. Quite an achievement.

While not disagreeing with you there is some competition for the title on here.

 

[Frogfish]

No I mean Toulouse

OMG. *Bangs head against the wall*