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She's dead

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mark1975 said:
He's talking utter ignorant bollocks. Teacher's were never at the lowest end of the pay scale, nurses have often suffered but the medical industry, doctors and specialists in particular, now rake it in through private appointments and are not on unreasonable pay through the NHS in comparison to other jobs (you could argue they should be paid more because of the nature of their skills though).

"My mates got two BMW's and a nice house" so ergo we're better off now. No were not. Come and stay in Runcorn, or Widnes or much of Liverpool in a B&B and have a look at the quality of life, the quality of suburban housing and the standards that we STILL live in - unemployment, crime and overcrowding is rife.

Like I said earlier, I do work for practitioners on Harley Street and throughout London on a fraction of what they would be paying someone closer to their home. So while they at the higher end are getting paid more than what a practitioner gets here - and believe me Fox, they do because the clientele are of a financially sound standing compared to here, they still do private work to boost the coffers and then employ a PA from the North so they pay at least a third of the wage. You sound like a typical ignorant rich kid who doesn't know any better. That's fine in itself, I don't expect you to feel guilty about what you earn, but don't tell us how better off we are as a country, using your own comfort as a standard - it's not.
Click to expand...

we are all on the web today on either a computer or laptop or smart phone we all have top tech. We all watch footy online or on sky or go to matches. I expect we all socialise, drinks food ETC and may even play some recreational sports. kids go to after school clubs, we go on holidays sometimes.

We all have free school, its free to go to uni (you only pay back some after you get a well paid job after). We all get Free health, we have good fire, ambulance and police compared to some places.

Didn't a guy get slaughtered recently for saying we have never had it so good. I agree with him. 7 years ago I was skint going around supermarkets with a calculator, sold my car as i could not afford to run it. I am where I am today because this country offers you opportunity.

If it is so bad here fuck off and live somewhere better, bugs me when people slate this country

I am so not posh, my family are skint and always lived on dodgy council estates, my mum and dad both live in old people homes now FREE with good pensions they hardly contributed to. My sister has not worked for 20 years and is a dole bum which i hate but again she was allowed to do it she is always ill and gets looked after FREE although she does not deserve it. Nobody in my family owns a car or a house, I broke away from that and left home and had a go.

I know some folk live in areas of poverty, so move I did. I know not everyone is financially comfortable but there are a lot of people in their comfort zones who are not brave enough to have a go on their own, use a govt grant to start up or move away to do better in an area with more opportunity.

This country gives you a chance in my opinion and it is a good place to live, not perfect but very good. I used to be in the Air Force and I was very proud to be so and represent my country..

There, soap box away
 
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@Fox

we are all on the web today on either a computer or laptop or smart phone we all have top tech. We all watch footy online or on sky or go to matches.
It's called technology Fox - technology advances. You work in IT for fucks sake you should know this.

I expect we all socialise, drinks food ETC and may even play some recreational sports. kids go to after school clubs, we go on holidays sometimes.
And we pay through the nose for it


We all have free school,
We've always had it

its free to go to uni (you only pay back some after you get a well paid job after).
It's not free at all. What part of having to borrow money to pay for tuition fees makes it free ?

We all get Free health, we have good fire, ambulance and police compared to some places.
Do we ? The individuals in the health service do a brilliant job in a service so constrained in budget and bureaucracy that is not fit for them to fully demonstrate their skills in. It's declined considerably since 1980. It's that bad I feel I have to pay for private medical insurance. Same for the fire service - top individuals, too many constraints - it's not close to what it used to be . The police is a mixed bag individual wise of course but suffers the same constraints. We don't even have a local police station any more thanks to the Tories. And what modern Western economy are these "not as bad as" ? Because everywhere I work over Europe they piss on the UK services wise.

Didn't a guy get slaughtered recently for saying we have never had it so good. I agree with him. 7 years ago I was skint going around supermarkets with a calculator, sold my car as i could not afford to run it. I am where I am today because this country offers you opportunity.
We have an improved standard of living - that would happen with or without Thatcher. On the flip side of that she brought in this consumer driven must-have mentality where we actually believe we have to have nice things. And you got where you are probably by a little hard work with some good luck and timing thrown in.

If it is so bad here fuck off and live somewhere better, bugs me when people slate this country
It's no wonder people call you a fucking idiot at times. You sound like the EDL you divvy. Maybe because we have friends and family and as much as some governments may try to destroy them those relationships and communities are more important to us than any shit the government can throw at us ?

This country gives you a chance in my opinion and it is a good place to live, not perfect but very good. I used to be in the Air Force and I was very proud to be so and represent my country..

Fox , I'm behind anyone who serves in the armed forces - don't confuse that with blind patriotism. Sure it's better here than lots of countries but compared to some equivalents it's much worse and mainly down to our broken society. That broken society that was broken by that absolute cunt Thatcher.

There, soap box away
 
Fox said:
We all have free school, its free to go to uni (you only pay back some after you get a well paid job after). We all get Free health, we have good fire, ambulance and police compared to some places.
Click to expand...

Mate, it's not free if you have to pay it back.
 
Statement by the Football Supporters Federation

"The FSF backs the decision made by the football authorities not to impose a minute's silence across all fixtures this weekend to mark the death of Margaret Thatcher. Should individual clubs wish to hold a minute's silence or commemorate the passing of Margaret Thatcher in their own manner that is a matter for them.


"We would expect that most fans' thoughts this weekend will turn to the friends and families of those 96 fellow supporters who lost their lives at Hillsborough 24 years ago."


Malcolm Clarke, FSF Chair

Yet there's people on here who actually asked what Thatchers involvement with Hillsborough was. I despair at times.
 
British taxpayers can well “afford” to contribute to the estimated £10 million cost of Baroness Thatcher's funeral, the Foreign Secretary William Hague said this morning

Sound, no more austerity measures for all then !
 
JamesLyons ‏@MirrorJames 11m

MPs have been told they can claimed up to £3,750 each on travelling to Westminster to pay tribute to #Thatcher
 
Fox said:
we are all on the web today on either a computer or laptop or smart phone we all have top tech. We all watch footy online or on sky or go to matches. I expect we all socialise, drinks food ETC and may even play some recreational sports. kids go to after school clubs, we go on holidays sometimes.

We all have free school, its free to go to uni (you only pay back some after you get a well paid job after). We all get Free health, we have good fire, ambulance and police compared to some places.

Didn't a guy get slaughtered recently for saying we have never had it so good. I agree with him. 7 years ago I was skint going around supermarkets with a calculator, sold my car as i could not afford to run it. I am where I am today because this country offers you opportunity.

If it is so bad here fuck off and live somewhere better, bugs me when people slate this country

I am so not posh, my family are skint and always lived on dodgy council estates, my mum and dad both live in old people homes now FREE with good pensions they hardly contributed to. My sister has not worked for 20 years and is a dole bum which i hate but again she was allowed to do it she is always ill and gets looked after FREE although she does not deserve it. Nobody in my family owns a car or a house, I broke away from that and left home and had a go.

I know some folk live in areas of poverty, so move I did. I know not everyone is financially comfortable but there are a lot of people in their comfort zones who are not brave enough to have a go on their own, use a govt grant to start up or move away to do better in an area with more opportunity.

This country gives you a chance in my opinion and it is a good place to live, not perfect but very good. I used to be in the Air Force and I was very proud to be so and represent my country..

There, soap box away
Click to expand...

Air Force? As what? Please say you we're a pilot. Or did you just clean the bogs?
 
Apropos of nothing much, I love how nationalisation of industry is a great thing but not the capitalism that created that industry and those jobs in the first place.
 
Fox said:
they are labour supporters
Click to expand...
Not really theyre not. They may scribble a wobbly crayon x in the Labour box come the general election but Im dubious as to their Labourite socialist convictions.
Good old Maggie cried the union leader-esque Labour voting Headmasterz
 
peterhague said:
Apropos of nothing much, I love how nationalisation of industry is a great thing but not the capitalism that created that industry and those jobs in the first place.
Click to expand...

i love how thatcher restoring our country's economic power is great but not our involvement in the slave trade which created that power.
 
Sunny said:
@Fox

we are all on the web today on either a computer or laptop or smart phone we all have top tech. We all watch footy online or on sky or go to matches.
It's called technology Fox - technology advances. You work in IT for fucks sake you should know this.

I expect we all socialise, drinks food ETC and may even play some recreational sports. kids go to after school clubs, we go on holidays sometimes.
And we pay through the nose for it


We all have free school,
We've always had it

its free to go to uni (you only pay back some after you get a well paid job after).
It's not free at all. What part of having to borrow money to pay for tuition fees makes it free ?

We all get Free health, we have good fire, ambulance and police compared to some places.
Do we ? The individuals in the health service do a brilliant job in a service so constrained in budget and bureaucracy that is not fit for them to fully demonstrate their skills in. It's declined considerably since 1980. It's that bad I feel I have to pay for private medical insurance. Same for the fire service - top individuals, too many constraints - it's not close to what it used to be . The police is a mixed bag individual wise of course but suffers the same constraints. We don't even have a local police station any more thanks to the Tories. And what modern Western economy are these "not as bad as" ? Because everywhere I work over Europe they piss on the UK services wise.

Didn't a guy get slaughtered recently for saying we have never had it so good. I agree with him. 7 years ago I was skint going around supermarkets with a calculator, sold my car as i could not afford to run it. I am where I am today because this country offers you opportunity.
We have an improved standard of living - that would happen with or without Thatcher. On the flip side of that she brought in this consumer driven must-have mentality where we actually believe we have to have nice things. And you got where you are probably by a little hard work with some good luck and timing thrown in.

If it is so bad here fuck off and live somewhere better, bugs me when people slate this country
It's no wonder people call you a fucking idiot at times. You sound like the EDL you divvy. Maybe because we have friends and family and as much as some governments may try to destroy them those relationships and communities are more important to us than any shit the government can throw at us ?

This country gives you a chance in my opinion and it is a good place to live, not perfect but very good. I used to be in the Air Force and I was very proud to be so and represent my country..

Fox , I'm behind anyone who serves in the armed forces - don't confuse that with blind patriotism. Sure it's better here than lots of countries but compared to some equivalents it's much worse and mainly down to our broken society. That broken society that was broken by that absolute cunt Thatcher.

There, soap box away
Click to expand...


Appreciate your feedback, I will reword the Uni one. You do not pay any fees up front to go to uni but pay back your fees at 9% a month of your earnings over the threshold if you earn over £21K a year and if you suddenly earn below that it stops. Plus after 25 years no matter how much you have paid back it ends.

You earn £40K a year after a great Uni course you pay back £140 a month, hardly a killer is it. Great opportunity for everyone to go to Uni now regardless of background.

We spend as a nation hundreds and thousands on tech then moan we are living on basics and are skint. We simply have a skewed idea these days on what is the basics in life.

"By the time you have paid for your satellite TV, your beer, fags maybe, trainers/clothes, smartphone, footy, tablet/laptop there is just nothing left for the luxuries in life "

I am patriotic and don't apologise for it, I don't spoil my kids and they know the value of money but also know there is no limit to what you can achieve in the UK if you really take chances and risks.

I volunteered for redundancy in the RAF and wanted to move to London to make my fortune. I got a job interview for the day after I left the Airforce. I drove to London with all my possessions, slept in my car in a car park, got the job the next day and rented a shit studio flat. Everything I have now is because of gambling and never staying in my comfort zone. I changed jobs every 2-3 years and then took a chance and quit to find contract work.

Not being a martyr just saying for a man with no qualifications I have proven that anything is possible here.
 
@Fox - I think you're paying too much credence in what you believe to be the opportunities presented to you by successful government policies - and perhaps in spite of those policies - (and nots not deflect from the thread here too much) rather than the opportunities you brought to yourself by bettering yourself and taking risks.

I've have a question for you. You're patriotic obviously and by joining the armed forces were prepared to fight for this country. What does "this country" mean to you ? Is it the government that runs the country via political desires and policies or is it the families, friends and honest hard working communities that exist and/or are close to you. ?

If it's the former I think you're lost. If it's the latter then you maybe can start to understand seeing the destruction of those very things is what makes some us feel how we feel towards Thatchers and government as a whole and why some us grew to detest her and cannot feel any sympathy towards the woman in the slightest. That's not a natural position for many of us as well.
 
Sunny said:
@Fox - I think you're paying too much credence in what you believe to be the opportunities presented to you by successful government policies - and perhaps in spite of those policies - (and nots not deflect from the thread here too much) rather than the opportunities you brought to yourself by bettering yourself and taking risks.

I've have a question for you. You're patriotic obviously and by joining the armed forces were prepared to fight for this country. What does "this country" mean to you ? Is it the government that runs the country via political desires and policies or is it the families, friends and honest hard working communities that exist and/or are close to you. ?

If it's the former I think you're lost. If it's the latter then you maybe can start to understand seeing the destruction of those very things is what makes some us feel how we feel towards Thatchers and government as a whole and why some us grew to detest her and cannot feel any sympathy towards the woman in the slightest. That's not a natural position for many of us as well.
Click to expand...


Errrrr, sorry but I'm really struggling with this. Isn't the latter concept the Thatcherite, small state, one?
 
[This is like the Rocky films; two heavyweights slugging it out endlessly with no winner in sight]
 
It's been a very interesting discussion between Sunny/Fox - but I tend to side with Sunny on the fact that Fox's success is more due to what he made of himself and the chances he took. He's in the minority - many people do what he does, in many countries, and fall flat on their face. There's a small percentage which make it (it's interesting to note how their children act often times - I lived in an area in NY where the parents had all made it and it was amazing to see how the children behaved because of it -- for better or worse).
 
Fox said:
mate you are having a laugh, they are huge labour supporters. But like Tony blair on the radio today they respect that the country is a better place to live with lots of opportunities for people who want to go for it .

They never agree with me on politics, I always take the piss out of them as they talk like a union leader about how unfair the govt is on public servants then I remind them that they are doing ok

We don't agree on much politically so shove that up your fat arse 🙄
Click to expand...

Fox.... Do you not understand that someone who is your mate is an absolutely awful example of a point?

It's completely subjective and completely biased.

He may have ranted for 20 minutes about how were going to collapse, but you gleamed "he's ok with it"

It's a pointless point
 
Sunny said:
@Fox - I think you're paying too much credence in what you believe to be the opportunities presented to you by successful government policies - and perhaps in spite of those policies - (and nots not deflect from the thread here too much) rather than the opportunities you brought to yourself by bettering yourself and taking risks.

I've have a question for you. You're patriotic obviously and by joining the armed forces were prepared to fight for this country. What does "this country" mean to you ? Is it the government that runs the country via political desires and policies or is it the families, friends and honest hard working communities that exist and/or are close to you. ?

If it's the former I think you're lost. If it's the latter then you maybe can start to understand seeing the destruction of those very things is what makes some us feel how we feel towards Thatchers and government as a whole and why some us grew to detest her and cannot feel any sympathy towards the woman in the slightest. That's not a natural position for many of us as well.
Click to expand...

This country to me is more about the people (most of them). Yes I may vote one way and that is purely because I am more of a fan of small public sector and more chances for business and starting yourself. But that said if i had been in the RAF when Blair was PM it would not have made me less patriotic.

I love the spirit of this country and the fight to survive and achieve but I do get wound up when people moan about lack of opportunity without ever trying to move out of a certain area which lacks opportunities or stay in the same job forever moaning about it as its comfortable and known.

Obviously we need all sorts to make the country work from cleaners like my mum to the commodity brokers I am working with at the mo who earn a bomb and work 16 hours a day as they are obsessed with their success and the £££

Someone said to me once successful people are just good at guessing. Everyone will get a big chance once in their life but they take the wrong option, guessing which way to go is all you need sometimes and be willing to try it.
 
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