She's dead

[peterhague]

£8m is nothing. I've explained why. But, yeah, keep screaming with your fingers in your ears, seems to be a habit round here.

 

[Skullflower]

Nor can you defend the state of British education in the 1980s, so I suppose that's one thing I should blame Thatcher for.

people were much cleverer back then imo.

 

[Skullflower]

£8m is nothing. I've explained why. But, yeah, keep screaming with your fingers in your ears, seems to be a habit round here.

we could use that 8 million to buy you a clue.

 

[peterhague]

we could use that 8 million to buy you a clue.

I think your willingness to entertain that is yet another sign of your worrying obsession with me. Think of the CAB, the libraries, the cancer wards, first, ffs.

 

[Richey]

You liberals are full of contradictions you know...
What she did in the North wasnt far from anarchy

You think? Whereabouts in the North of England were you living in the 1980s?

 

[Le Chacal]

£8M is not nothing in these days of austerity when the government is asking everyone to tighten their belt and make sacrifices.
You just cant leave the economical context out of this issue, this is simply not possible.
its unfortunate she died at the wrong time, but her funeral will have to be simple and involve as less tax payer's money as possible.
If her family wants a big and fastuous funeral, then they should pay for it

 

[Skullflower]

I think your willingness to entertain that is yet another sign of your worrying obsession with me. Think of the CAB, the libraries, the cancer wards, first, ffs.

if your energy was put towards a virtuous cause then we could accomplish anything.

 

[SummerOnions]

£8m is nothing. I've explained why. But, yeah, keep screaming with your fingers in your ears, seems to be a habit round here.

I don't scream, I choose to make salient points instead.

You've explained relative to your chosen ideals, and most here roundly disagree. You think you're right, we don't.

I didn't think it would be such a hard think to get your head around, Peter.

 

[Le Chacal]

You think? Whereabouts in the North of England were you living in the 1980s?

I think 10 Downing Street was farther to the North than I was...

 

[peterhague]

if your energy was put towards a virtuous cause then we could accomplish anything.

Don't be so sure. I've created little enough evil so far.

 

[Richey]

I think 10 Downing Street was farther to the North than I was...

Oh, okay. So how do you know what it was like?

I am honestly not having a dig by the way, I am just curious. I don't think I would ever really hate a politician from another country based on domestic policies if I hadn't lived there at the time.

 

[peterhague]

I don't scream, I choose to make salient points instead.

You've explained relative to your chosen ideals, and most here roundly disagree. You think you're right, we don't.

I didn't think it would be such a hard think to get your head around, Peter.

You're wrong. You haven't even tried to argue why I'm wrong about that £8m not depriving any other public service of funds. You've just carried on as if I never said it.

That is to my mind the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting a person down.

 

[Oncy]

Why are you posting Oncey's drivel? I've already tried to read it once.

Meanie.
Youre just a big meanie.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It doesn't matter if it's not depriving another public service, the point is there's £8m (at least) that could be spent on better things.

 

[Sunny]

Whether you agree with the thinking or not, you only have to consider the state of Britain in the 70s to know why some revere her. There's many who think it might have been done differently or less divisively (I'm definitely open to that, but I'd want to read more before making a final judgement) but anyone who says they'd really relish a return to those days is probably either a bit of a crackpot socialist or just plain dishonest.

You're completely twisting stuff Peter, and what a lame and embarrassing attempt at doing so. No-one has actually said Britain was in a great state in the 70s in fact I've repeatedly said I believe the unions held too much power and things needed to be sorted out with them. Even more so not one person has said they would relish a return to those days so do us all a favour and stop spouting complete and utter fabricated shite. They maybe would want a return to the personal and community values that people held in those days that Thatcher did a hatchet job on. It's a shame we've returned to the days of recession though isn't it ? Where austerity rules and we have 8% unemployment with 3.6 million workless households and 1.5 million people claiming JSA alone. Can we remember for a moment what caused that ? Profit before anything else type behaviour from our financial sector that was given the ability and werewithal to do that by the deregulation on the industry brought in by no other than Thatcher herself.

 

[SummerOnions]

You're wrong. You haven't even tried to argue why I'm wrong about that £8m not depriving any other public service of funds. You've just carried on as if I never said it.

That is to my mind the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting a person down.

I could explain completely my side of the point but you have no intention of considering anyone else's viewpoint Peter. It's pretty obvious that things like public spending and allocated funds are entirely unnecessary terms when you consider the basic link between the current government and the money it has access to. You/they can dress it up as applicable to try and suggest that certain tranches of money are entirely separate to other parts of the whole as if they were entirely different entities but you know full well they aren't.

 

[SummerOnions]

You're wrong. You haven't even tried to argue why I'm wrong about that £8m not depriving any other public service of funds. You've just carried on as if I never said it.

That is to my mind the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting a person down.

How can you say an opinion is wrong Peter? Your selectivity of what can be termed right and wrong is entirely down to your own subjective viewpoint.

 

[Jack D Rips]

I just wanted to take the time to ‘book end’ my thoughts on the late Margaret Thatcher. If nothing else then to flesh out a little of the bones of my (and others) prior posts and perhaps an explanation of the vitriolic nature of some very cool peoples updates.
Firstly I get that a lot of people thought she was great, I really do. In particular those who grew up south of Watford. If you grew up in London or Surrey or leafy Kent then perhaps you didn’t see or weren’t aware of the scale of depravation much of our country was subjected to under Thatcher.
Ask the people of Sheffield whose steel industry was deconstructed. Or the men of Merthyr and Cardiff whose very livelihood was taken away. Ask the people of Newcastle or Birmingham how they remember that time. Look around the working class communities of these once great cities and see walls of boarded up houses, factories shut forever, pits closed, homelessness, joblessness. Watch Boys from the Blackstuff.
I know that the people of Guildford and Windsor and Tunbridge wells will never see that. I really get that, and that the abiding memory for many will be the blackouts in the late seventies, the strikes and the trade union power over the country I do get.
But that in itself is not the reason that we (and I say WE) hate Thatcher and are glad she is dead (celebratory even) its not. YES we HATE what she did to this country. We hate the destruction of community, we hate the abolition of all forms of trade and industry, we hate the way she sold and privatised our NHS and public transport system to line her party pockets, we hate that she drove a wedge between the rich and the poor, between the haves and the have nots, that she increased the rate of of VAT twofold, that she gave tax breaks to millionaires while increasing taxes on all areas for the poor and introducing poll tax (which you and I now see as council tax, that 1000+ a year that you have to pay to have your bins emptied) we hate that she cut off swathes of the country and simply waited for the money to come in (like a modern day Sheriff of Nottingham), yes we hate all of those things and we hate her for them. But if you think that that is why we rejoice in her demise you are far from the truth.
I would politefully request that you read about her support for the Khmer Rouge who butchered 2.2m human beings. She supported Pinochet and was friends with him socially, a man who 300,000 of his citizens were abused by, she sold arms to Saudi Arabia who to this day abuse human rights and in particular those of women,she ignored sanctions to trade with Apartheid South Africa calling Mandela a terrorist and supporting the ruling apartheid regime, she allowed American nuclear weapons to reside in our country at the whim of another dictator, she traded arms to Iraq and dined with Saddam Hussain, she supported continued division in Ireland, including rejecting Eires place at any talks about the future of the country and refused to allow the hunger strikers political status allowing them to starve themselves to death rather than improve their living conditions.
You could read about Hillsborough, the parties policies on Football fans (the WORKING CLASSES) you could read about how her police force in collusion with Whitehall blamed the death of 96 men, women and children on the very people her organisation failed to protect. How for 23 years it was covered up and when finally it was made clear last year (expose the lies before Thatcher dies YESSS!!!!) disgusting revelations came out including that the police took blood samples from dead children to try and prove that fan drunkenness had caused the tragedy. And SHE knew. And it was covered up from top to bottom. And those families of the dead still don’t have justice 23 years later because for 23 years her lies were covered up to protect her and her police force.
Margaret Thatcher has left a legacy of greed and division that will never be overcome, she gave birth to the welfare state/benefits culture that her own party rail against today, she drove MILLIONS of working families into care or a benefit cycle that decades later they are still in. Her social and economic policies (which we see echoed by that vile cretinous cunt Cameron today) were structured to make the rich richer, and keep the middle ground quiet while the working class majority were ground underfoot. Im not telling you anything you cant read or find out for yourself if you were lucky enough to not have lived in her era, or certainly not in Birmingham, Northern Ireland, Cardiff, Sheffield, Iran, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Chili or anywhere else that her stinking foetid fingers had influence and spread ruination. You can read it all, you can educate yourself about her policies, her friends, her quangos, her affiliation with Phillip Morris, her cronyism, you can certainly read all of that. You can educate yourself should you have the time or the will. However if YOU DO NOT have the time or the will and care not to ‘EDUCATE’ yourself, I say this to you. That’s fine. No problem. You CHOOSE not to then that’s a ok with me.
But spare me the fucking moral outrage about my standpoint when I (who have educated myself and do remember the havoc she wreaked) and the people like me, the working class northerners, the men of coal towns, the men of Steel towns, the people who saw her influence and were REPELLED by it. Spare me your outrage when I am glad she is dead. Because you who cant be arsed to find out why I am outraged and sickened by her have no fucking right, NO RIGHT to talk about those who actually can be arsed to be morally outraged by despotism and be glad to see an end to a tyrant.
She WAS a fucking vile horrible crooked despot. And if she came from Uganda or Kazakhstan she would be roundly vilified around the globe, she would be tried for fucking war crimes.
I don’t care that she was a woman in a mans world, I don’t care that she was old and had lost her senses. It doesn’t change her DEEDS. And that is the issue here.
Im glad she is dead. It doesn’t make me a great person or anything, and im not proud to….actually, I am. Fuck that bitch.

Wow!. That is one very powerful post.

 

[Skullflower]

peterhague is afraid that if he finishes reading it he will become a bolshevik.

 

[Sunny]

Fox is doing a grand job. I admire his tenacity.

Erik Meijer was tenacious. Shame he was shite.

 

[Le Chacal]

Oh, okay. So how do you know what it was like?

I am honestly not having a dig by the way, I am just curious. I don't think I would ever really hate a politician from another country based on domestic policies if I hadn't lived there at the time.

Go read the 40 pages and tell me where I said I hated Thatcher. Granted, I wont lose any sleep with her death...
Im basing my opinion on what I read, watched (films, documentaries, etc.) about her reign and what people that were living in those devastated regions have to say about it. Which kind of confirmed my knowledges of that era...

Oh, and thats a slightly different issue but having some argentinian family, one of my cousins fought in the Falklands...

 

[Oncy]

I think that as Peter is a massive Tory boy with a penchant for trolling yous are all on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Skullflower]

he'd be a better troll if he had a clue about ancient norse literature.

 

[cloggypop]

I am saving my energy for dancing .

 

[peterhague]

You're completely twisting stuff Peter, and what a lame and embarrassing attempt at doing so. No-one has actually said Britain was in a great state in the 70s in fact I've repeatedly said I believe the unions held too much power and things needed to be sorted out with them. Even more so not one person has said they would relish a return to those days so do us all a favour and stop spouting complete and utter fabricated shite. They maybe would want a return to the personal and community values that people held in those days that Thatcher did a hatchet job on. It's a shame we've returned to the days of recession though isn't it ? Where austerity rules and we have 8% unemployment with 3.6 million workless households and 1.5 million people claiming JSA alone. Can we remember for a moment what caused that ? Profit before anything else type behaviour from our financial sector that was given the ability and werewithal to do that by the deregulation on the industry brought in by no other than Thatcher herself.

I'm not twisting anything. I was simply saying that the reason some revere her is that most people think the country was in a very bad way in the 1970s and they think she deserves a lot of credit for 'turning things round'. I'm not even saying that's my personal opinion. It's just an answer to your statement that you can't honestly understand why some 'put her on a pedestal'.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think that as Peter is a massive Tory boy with a penchant for trolling yous are all on a hiding to nothing.

The lady's not for turning.

 

[Oncy]

he'd be a better troll if he had a clue about ancient norse literature.

The Nordic Jorvik exhibition in York is ace.

 

[peterhague]

I could explain completely my side of the point but you have no intention of considering anyone else's viewpoint Peter. It's pretty obvious that things like public spending and allocated funds are entirely unnecessary terms when you consider the basic link between the current government and the money it has access to. You/they can dress it up as applicable to try and suggest that certain tranches of money are entirely separate to other parts of the whole as if they were entirely different entities but you know full well they aren't.

I don't really understand any of that. I don't think it makes sense.

 

[Skullflower]

The Nordic Jorvik exhibition in York is ace.

yeah i've been. did you go to the castle museum?

 

[gene hughes]

I wish AnfieldAnfield was here. Always valued his opinion on things like this.