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The whole Ched Evans thing

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It's a bit fucking American, that's what it is.

No offence to y'all from the US of A, but a great many of your names suck balls, & many dickheads over here copy it.
 
Modo said:
If Ched Evans wants to save his career he should leave the country.
I was thinking the MLS, but they'll never let him in when he has that on his record.
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I suppose I should say.... There's always Australia.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone with a criminal conviction has been sent to Australia
 
StevieM said:
I suppose I should say.... There's always Australia.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone with a criminal conviction has been sent to Australia
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Ha. My mate lives in Melbourne, has since he was 15,but still hasn't sorted out his dual citizenship thing.

He got arrested & charged twice last year for fighting outside a bar. The police explained to him if he gets another conviction he could be removed from the country.

He bursts out laughing "Well that's a bit fucking ironic isn't it? That's how you lot all fucking got here!"

Silly bastard had to spend an extra few hours I'm the cells for that.
 
FoxForceFive said:
I think it depends on what career you're in though, I've known civil servants to be disciplined & having lost their jobs following guilty verdicts for a crime, because it's in the contract that you won't behave in a manner that may reflect poorly on the civil service.

I'd assume footy players have a similar thing in their contracts.

How it effects their employment chances afterwards would probably be dealt with similarly.
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Quite. It shouldn't really be relevant how highly paid you are, if you are in the public eye, either working with people directly or, in this case, as something as a role model as a public figure (which footballers pretty much are), then of course your criminal record is relevant. I don't think there's any case for serving your time and being allowed to carry on as normal, it should rightly be a blot that people are aware of, otherwise how else are you going to protect people?

I find the whole "they've served their time" attitude ignorant and symptomatic of our fucked up society, there's enough cases of awareness not being raised about offenders and them going on to do more/worse damage. Rehabilitate, yeah, but don't put them back into the comforts they had, if they have to take a change of path in their life, then they shouldn't have fucked up, should they? The "time" thing is as dubious as they come, because the criminal law system is a farce anyway.
 
It's rare that I disagree with you at all, Mark, let alone as completely as I do over that post. People are hardly going to be unaware of this guy's background wherever he goes, and (since you're worried about future risks) any job he might go for which requires what used to be known as a Criminal Records Board check will uncover his conviction (*if* that isn't overturned by the official review which will now be carried out - and, as others have said, they don't do those at the drop of a hat).

As for "they've served their time" - call me ignorant and fucked up if you will, but I was the one who made that point first in this thread and I unapologetically stand by it. The courts decide on punishment after hearing the evidence and none of us, not a single one, is competent to substitute our judgment for theirs, however unhappy we may be with particular decisions.
 
It is obviously the decision of any football club whether they wish to employ him or not, just as it is the decision of any company to employ anyone with a criminal record or not. It is also totally true to say that many convicted criminals have trouble getting back into work (although actually those with careers often do tend to return to those careers. The ones who have real trouble are those who were career criminals but want to go straight).

However, I was not under the impression that this was a GOOD thing! There are charities set up to help offenders back to work so at least some people obviously consider the current situation to be a problem that needs fixing.

Footballers are of course role models, and so their personal lives do matter, but even here, where do you draw the line? I would say that every club in the country has a player or has had a player who has done something that wouldn't make them a good role model.

Whoever made the point about Evans not being that good a player was also right, by the way. If he has an amazing player he would already be playing again I'm sure.
 
I think mark means that just because someone has served their time doesn't mean it should no longer be held against them.

The fact it remains on your record for ten years until it's downgraded means the law backs that up.

So regardless whether he has served his time, an employer can & will decide not to employ him when they see he was convicted of rape.
 
FoxForceFive said:
I think mark means that just because someone has served their time doesn't mean it should no longer be held against them.

The fact it remains on your record for ten years until it's downgraded means the law backs that up.

So regardless whether he has served his time, an employer can & will decide not to employ him when they see he was convicted of rape.
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The fact that an offence remains on a person's record doesn't mean it *should* invariably be held against them either. It recognises that there may be circumstances in which the fact of the previous offence would be relevant (e.g.if the convicted person is convicted again of the same or a similar offence, or if a kiddie-fiddler applies to work with children) and needs to be available to the decision-makers accordingly. Disgusting as the offence of rape is, I don't see that that applies in this case. Otherwise, as Richey says, where do you draw the line?
 
I wouldn't hire someone if they'd just come out of prison following a rape conviction.
 
Judge Jules said:
The fact that an offence remains on a person's record doesn't mean it *should* invariably be held against them either. It recognises that there may be circumstances in which the fact of the previous offence would be relevant (e.g.if the convicted person is convicted again of the same or a similar offence, or if a kiddie-fiddler applies to work with children) and needs to be available to the decision-makers accordingly. Disgusting as the offence of rape is, I don't see that that applies in this case. Otherwise, as Richey says, where do you draw the line?
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You'll be hard pressed to find a job application form without an unspent convictions section mate.

If you're an employer & a prospective employee tells you they've been convicted of a serious crime I think you'd want to be fair but err on the side of caution regardless.

When your business is public & famous I daresay it'd be even more imperative.
 
StevieM said:
I wouldn't hire someone if they'd just come out of prison following a rape conviction.
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It costs the same to hire a non rapist as it does to hire a rapist.

Thing is though, it will probably end up cheaper for a football club to hire the rapist than a non rapist of equivalent skill.
 
That's true about job application forms (it's not *that* long since I retired, Foxy ;)) but I wasn't saying otherwise. My point was not that the info.wouldn't or shouldn't be available, but that it won't always be directly relevant. Of course some employers will be more circumspect than others about hiring people against such a background, and it's right that they should have the freedom not to do so. What I'm saying is that that shouldn't be automatic, and that it'd be a bad thing for society as a whole if it were.
 
Judge Jules said:
That's true about job application forms (it's not *that* long since I retired, Foxy ;)) but I wasn't saying otherwise. My point was not that the info.wouldn't or shouldn't be available, but that it won't always be directly relevant. Of course some employers will be more circumspect than others about hiring people against such a background, and it's right that they should have the freedom not to do so. What I'm saying is that that shouldn't be automatic, and that it'd be a bad thing for society as a whole if it were.
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A thief can be a potential liability in any job, for example, so could someone charged with GBH/ABH, rape, indecent assault, it's hard to be able to draw a line under many crimes without (as Foxy said) wanting to err on the side of caution.
 
For some reason the first Ched Evans thread has been locked. A shame as it's one of the more interesting topics debated on here in many a moon. Reading back through that thread there is lots of good and strong opinions. It appears he's been denied the chance to play in Malta by the MoJ and now Oldham wanted to give him a second chance 20,000 people have signed a petition protesting against it. 120,000 (and Jessica Ennis) objected to his returning to Sheffield Utd. I thought I'd do a bit of research into his case. It has to be one of the flimsiest, slap dash case of a conviction I've ever read. Frankly I'm amazed he was convicted at all. Anyone else taken an interest in this?
 
He was convicted because he raped somebody.

He can't leave the country to play in Malta as he is a convicted sex offender and is still on licence.
 
He still protests his innocence and is going for an appeal.

Until the appeal is heard he shouldn't play football.
 
He's a complete dickhead by all accounts.

I'm not convinced based on what I've seen of the evidence of his guilt by any means, but regardless, he is a convicted rapist until such a time as the conviction may be overturned (which I believe is quite unlikely).

As for him not being allowed to play again by public outrage, I'm not sure where I stand.

It seems grossly unfair in one respect, as in a lot of other professions once he was done he'd be able to return.

Equally so though they are quite a lot of jobs where he wouldn't be that aren't in the public eye.

There's also the fact it is such a high profile public job too, if he came to play for us would you like to explain to your son or daughter that you were cheering on a convicted rapist?
 
Ok so putting aside the fact that he is (in my opinion) rightly appealing the conviction. He's already served his sentence. There is something seriously morally fucked up here.
 
What's the point of a justice system if you're guilty for life anyway? Do we make everyone who's committed a crime a pariah of society? I'm sure that will work well for everyone. Ridiculous.
 
By not allowing him to return, are fans suddenly empowered to choose what they think it a nasty crime? What about players who have killed people and have returned - why have they been allowed back?

I understand the outrage but not sure I agree with fans having that much say in who plays for the team.
 
It's a very sensitive subject I guess but an interesting one. @FoxForceFive point has made me think a bit. I don't think I'd ever want him at LFC which makes me feel slightly hypercritical. There is a lot of wrong though surrounded in this case I feel.
 
Red Astaire said:
For some reason the first Ched Evans thread has been locked.
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Threads auto lock after a period of inactivity.. Merged threads and reopened

If you like a thread to be re-opened, please post your request in the feedback forum and the mods here will consider it on merit...
 
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