Good save. Never go full Liam Neeson.
We need to talk about Keita..
- Thread starter The Nomad
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Good save. Never go full Liam Neeson.
I didn't get round to reading the whole post - mad evening, dog throwing up everywhere, and I haven't even got a dog - but I'm liking the subject. Predicate is close to the top of my priorities.
He did well in the second half. He was either carrying the ball forward or trying to play a forward pass. It was his pass to Origi for the chance in the last minute.
On a side note, we can't be too harsh on Origi for missing that chance. He's already destroyed Everton Football Club this season. We can't expect much more from him.
Exactly - in fact in the last two games he was responsible for the opportunities that came closest to us winning the 3 points in each (penalty call & pass to Origi). OK - they weren't converted & we didn't get the 6 points, but its fine margins between being "the worst pile of shit on the pitch" and "match winner"
He definitely suits that deeper role more, his vision opens up without the pressure of a bank of defenders right infront of him, he's much more in control and less frenetic with his passing. Measured passes and good dribbling past players too.
To be honest, I thought when I first watched it he never really got it out of his feet and it was on his weaker foot aswell, it was a great opportunity though and he should really have just smashed it in that position. That said, Firmino has been piss poor, someone else like Origi maybe deserves a crack.
It's his movement, or rather the lack of it, OFF the ball that bothers me most at this stage. He doesn't seem to know what to do, or where to go - he stands or strolls or jogs around pretty aimlessly at times, and physically he seems surprisingly weak. All of which contrasts sharply with whatever games I saw him play in Germany. Your touch can be out of sorts, your shooting can go awry, your passing can go through a bad spell, but concentration ought to always be there, along with work rate and awareness - those things need to transcend poor form, they're how you play your way out of bad form.
I saw a clip of Raphael Honigtein who said that he is being asked to do a lot more tactically by Liverpool in terms of positioning, which is different to what his role, and what his responsibilities were at Leipzip, so that could be linked to his slow start here.
Zip it up man....
Ha I do love when posters go at it.
Man you can't post things like that ! Along with those excellent stats you posted and now this .. there was literally not a single mistake in that 2nd half and virtually every pass was forward and all but one found a man. Clearly he seemed to have been given a playmaking role.
Contrast that with the first half when he, and indeed the whole team, played shite. Why.
Agreed - there are still too many times where he very obviously side steps into positions on the pitch (often around the centre circle) that he can't receive the ball in. This is more frustrating and noticable as we are so used to having Hendo & Gini who always bust a gut to be in a position to receive a ball. Naby appears better equipped to run and carry the ball than these two, but that doesn't really matter if he is hiding from receiving it.
BRING IT ON
I don't believe for a second that any of our players would 'hide from receiving it'. It's probably more a case of getting used to a change in tactical responsibilities and how his team mates play, more difficult of late with the constant midfield rotation due to injuries. Common sense dictates that he wants to play well and earn a starting slot and you can only do that by being on the ball and showing what you can do.
To me it has been noticeable on multiple occasions that someone like VVD or Matip will have it at the back and he literally moves so that and opposition forward is blocking the pass. A hungry midfielder wanting to prove his worth would bust a gut to get the ball - he has been very very tentative on a lot of occasions.
Maybe you should watch the WHOLE second half again, and not just selected highlights.
I remember 1 glaring mistake he made. We were pushing in attack, and under a high ball. He shirked it. Full on shirked it under the ball, which led them on a break.
There were others, but it was at that point I put 'can't head' on this thread.
That was every touch Keita made in the second half, it doesn't show times he didn't touch it - maybe you didn't note that was not 'highlights'.
However considering you were the one that came out with probably the most vitriolic and unbalanced post (amongst many you made in this thread) asking you to maintain a balanced opinion, regardless of personal bias, is whistling in the wind. http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/we-need-to-talk-about-keita.133765/#post-1794760
Nah sorry mate that's clear bollocks (move to block a pass). It's simply wrong to equate tentativeness (or lack of confidence) with hiding.
We need to talk about shit fans who know fuck all about being a supporter or indeed being patient...
Ok. Twist what I said, into whatever pigeon hole you want.
I didn't say it was highlights of the second half. I said highlights.
I.e. show the best bits. In this case Keitas best bits. Which like you said.. left out what he didn't do.
But continue to read what you want.
I have never criticised Keita before this thread, as I know it can take time for a player to settle and/or have a run of games.
However, my verdict is in. Can he change my mind? Absolutely. Will I continue to hope he comes good? Absolutely. But I don't think he will. If he does.. I will hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.
Ba-hahaha.. ok then.
I'd give an exception in the case of The Nomark, offering "he's fucking shit" or whatever it was, isn't really constructive. That said, I can't be arsed with these posts pulling people up for being objective or critical over genuine issues. (I'm not having a go at Molby btw)
Like all the muppets posting "we're top of the league FFS" after each of the last two games. Well, unfortunately we're not top now. The pressure is on and whoever is leading the pack after the next game is finely in the balance. What has gone from a healthy 7 point lead has now been reduced and we're banking on not continuing to struggle as we have been recently. Pretty soon we'll probably be putting up with posts about us finishing 4th last season meaning that a title challenge that ended in March is real progress, that finishing in the CL places again is real progress, that we'll challenge stronger next year (assuming no one gets fucked off waiting and leaves), the usual rose tinted, happy-clappy, Arsenal mentality bollocks.
The fact is, we've got as good a chance as any to win the league and we're in danger of losing the opportunity. Like we did under Rodgers, Rafa and Houllier, I don't want to be a fucking nearly team again, only for it all to fall apart next season, as history has shown us can happen.
And let's not forget, alot of the same posters were the ones banging on about how great it was to crash out the domestic cups. The fact is, we're facing a Bayern side in the CL and we're dropping our lead in the league. We don't succeed in either of those competitions, we win nothing, again. Some might find some progress to pick out of that, personally I think after 10 years, it's about time we stopped picking signs of progress out as though it's silverware and we go win some actual silverware.
And that's not a criticism of Klopp or the actual progress he has achieved, I love him and think he's done brilliantly. But let's not be small-time eh, every single time our returns are diminished, there's always some annoying knobhead looking for a silver lining. After all this time and at my age, as the years roll by with another false dawn, I think I can be forgiven for not getting carried away with the hype and looking for a positive in everything. We're not winning trophies, so for all our current excitement and excellent spirit as a club these days, the bread and butter stuff, still seems just out of our grasp. So forgive me if I'm not sat here lauding the fact that we were top of the league last week.
I know what you mean, Mark, but isn't talk about things being "out of our grasp" - even if only just - going a tad too far in the other direction? Progress in football, or in other things for that matter, is rarely if ever an unbroken upward journey. There are always stops and starts along the way, and IMHO it's legit to look at our overall direction of travel and find reasons to be cheerful about the wider picture.
Yeah I get that, and as the season ends that's when it's fair to look back at overall progress (or regression) for what it is. I was angry during and just after the CL final but once the dust settled, it was then easy for me to say we did well overall. I just can't be fucked with people saying "we're top of the league!", when next week you know that same poster will be banging on about us being a place or two higher than where we finished last year. It's a forever shifting positive slant that lacks any real objectivity to say what things are actually stopping us getting there. It's like you can't criticise Keita because of other signings being successful (you win and lose some unfortunately), or because he hasn't had enough time, he played a good pass, his stats say this, blah blah. He's been inconsistent and something of a let down, so far. Judged by actual performances, not what he did in Germany, or might do next season etc. Someone even said he'd be on the bench under other circumstances, so it wasn't fair to slate him, our £50m signing! I mean, come the fuck on.
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