Is Lucas in the top 20 CM's in the Premiership ?
- Thread starter Jürgen4PM
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[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405385#msg1405385 date=1317066521]
Parker
Wilshere
Sandro
tiote
Carrick
Anderson
Lampard
Barry
De Jong
Yaya
Fellaini
Rodwell
Barkley (?)
McCarthy
Ramsey
Song
Ramires
Mikel
Frimpong (?)
Huddlestone
Barton (?)
[/quote]
Arteta
Meireles
Modric
Gerrard
Palacios
and many more...
Parker
Wilshere
Sandro
tiote
Carrick
Anderson
Lampard
Barry
De Jong
Yaya
Fellaini
Rodwell
Barkley (?)
McCarthy
Ramsey
Song
Ramires
Mikel
Frimpong (?)
Huddlestone
Barton (?)
[/quote]
Arteta
Meireles
Modric
Gerrard
Palacios
and many more...
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47011.msg1405394#msg1405394 date=1317066869]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405388#msg1405388 date=1317066574]
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Sunny if Opta produced a stat that showed Joe Cole did the most keepy uppies over the course of the season would you make some sort of argument for him to be included in the team ?
a ludicrious example maybe, but it illustrates the point. Just because it can be counted doesn't mean it's relevant to whether we win or not.
[/quote]
It doesnt illustrate any kind of point at all really Ross.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405388#msg1405388 date=1317066574]
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Sunny if Opta produced a stat that showed Joe Cole did the most keepy uppies over the course of the season would you make some sort of argument for him to be included in the team ?
a ludicrious example maybe, but it illustrates the point. Just because it can be counted doesn't mean it's relevant to whether we win or not.
[/quote]
It doesnt illustrate any kind of point at all really Ross.
[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=47011.msg1405401#msg1405401 date=1317067176]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405385#msg1405385 date=1317066521]
Parker
Wilshere
Sandro
tiote
Carrick
Anderson
Lampard
Barry
De Jong
Yaya
Fellaini
Rodwell
Barkley (?)
McCarthy
Ramsey
Song
Ramires
Mikel
Frimpong (?)
Huddlestone
Barton (?)
[/quote]
Arteta
Meireles
Modric
Gerrard
Palacios
and many more...
[/quote]
Cool. Now name twenty holding midfielders who are better
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405385#msg1405385 date=1317066521]
Parker
Wilshere
Sandro
tiote
Carrick
Anderson
Lampard
Barry
De Jong
Yaya
Fellaini
Rodwell
Barkley (?)
McCarthy
Ramsey
Song
Ramires
Mikel
Frimpong (?)
Huddlestone
Barton (?)
[/quote]
Arteta
Meireles
Modric
Gerrard
Palacios
and many more...
[/quote]
Cool. Now name twenty holding midfielders who are better
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405403#msg1405403 date=1317067283]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47011.msg1405394#msg1405394 date=1317066869]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405388#msg1405388 date=1317066574]
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Sunny if Opta produced a stat that showed Joe Cole did the most keepy uppies over the course of the season would you make some sort of argument for him to be included in the team ?
a ludicrious example maybe, but it illustrates the point. Just because it can be counted doesn't mean it's relevant to whether we win or not.
[/quote]
It doesnt illustrate any kind of point at all really Ross.
[/quote]
Not if you want to deliberately miss it.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47011.msg1405394#msg1405394 date=1317066869]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405388#msg1405388 date=1317066574]
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Sunny if Opta produced a stat that showed Joe Cole did the most keepy uppies over the course of the season would you make some sort of argument for him to be included in the team ?
a ludicrious example maybe, but it illustrates the point. Just because it can be counted doesn't mean it's relevant to whether we win or not.
[/quote]
It doesnt illustrate any kind of point at all really Ross.
[/quote]
Not if you want to deliberately miss it.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405388#msg1405388 date=1317066574]
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Who has referred to Lucas as a "cunt"? As Rosco pointed out Lucas doesn't pick the team and therefore is blameless in that he plays every week, also nobody can doubt his commitment. He's a nice guy and I wish him well in the future but I HATE seeing his name on the team sheet.
Oh and don't let stats get in the way. Whereas the interpretation of them can differ they are somewhat based in fact. But lets not let that get in the way of a good slagging off for one of our players shall we ? Yeh, he's a cunt and shite. Just not as big a cunt as some the fans we have or as full of shite
[/quote]
Who has referred to Lucas as a "cunt"? As Rosco pointed out Lucas doesn't pick the team and therefore is blameless in that he plays every week, also nobody can doubt his commitment. He's a nice guy and I wish him well in the future but I HATE seeing his name on the team sheet.
I'll never get used to so called midfielders who completely shit themselves in the final third. You can be defensive and still have some threat. Masch was crap at that too and I didn't love him as much as most seemed to. Give me Didi over any of them. Or Molby, McMahon, Whelan, Souness. Just thinking about those players makes me think there's no greater sign that we've learned to appreciate mediocrity than the fact that Lucas has played over a hundred games in the same role.
Answer me this then. How is it that he's been in the MOTM top three, voted for by posters on here partly, for the last two seasons and is in there now? How is it consecutive management setups continue to place faith in him? How is it Stevie Gerrard called him out as the player of the season last year? How is it the stats provided, no matter whether you regard them or not, rate him relatively highly? If he so 'fucking shite' how can all those things be wrong and some of you be so right? I never knew we had so many ex-players and managers on here who know better.
You guys have really gone too far now ... Ryan is going to go fucking bat shit.
And Krump does have a point re: DMs not being able to help at all in the final 1/3 ...
And Krump does have a point re: DMs not being able to help at all in the final 1/3 ...
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47011.msg1405416#msg1405416 date=1317067951]
I'll never get used to so called midfielders who completely shit themselves in the final third. You can be defensive and still have some threat. Masch was crap at that too and I didn't love him as much as most seemed to. Give me Didi over any of them. Or Molby, McMahon, Whelan, Souness. Just thinking about those players makes me think there's no greater sign that we've learned to appreciate mediocrity than the fact that Lucas has played over a hundred games in the same role.
[/quote]
It's an old discussion, but in three man central midfield, either 4231 or 442, a player like Mascher or Makelele makes a lot more sense than in a 442.
I'll never get used to so called midfielders who completely shit themselves in the final third. You can be defensive and still have some threat. Masch was crap at that too and I didn't love him as much as most seemed to. Give me Didi over any of them. Or Molby, McMahon, Whelan, Souness. Just thinking about those players makes me think there's no greater sign that we've learned to appreciate mediocrity than the fact that Lucas has played over a hundred games in the same role.
[/quote]
It's an old discussion, but in three man central midfield, either 4231 or 442, a player like Mascher or Makelele makes a lot more sense than in a 442.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405418#msg1405418 date=1317067992]
Answer me this then. How is it that he's been in the MOTM top three, voted for by posters on here partly, for the last two seasons and is in there now? How is it consecutive management setups continue to place faith in him? How is it Stevie Gerrard called him out as the player of the season last year? How is it the stats provided, no matter whether you regard them or not, rate him relatively highly? If he so 'fucking shite' how can all those things be wrong and some of you be so right? I never knew we had so many ex-players and managers on here who know better.
[/quote]
It's like with Henderson. I appreciate that Dalglish, Capello and Ferguson all think he's great but they're wrong coz I'm the fucking expert.
Answer me this then. How is it that he's been in the MOTM top three, voted for by posters on here partly, for the last two seasons and is in there now? How is it consecutive management setups continue to place faith in him? How is it Stevie Gerrard called him out as the player of the season last year? How is it the stats provided, no matter whether you regard them or not, rate him relatively highly? If he so 'fucking shite' how can all those things be wrong and some of you be so right? I never knew we had so many ex-players and managers on here who know better.
[/quote]
It's like with Henderson. I appreciate that Dalglish, Capello and Ferguson all think he's great but they're wrong coz I'm the fucking expert.
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47011.msg1405416#msg1405416 date=1317067951]
I'll never get used to so called midfielders who completely shit themselves in the final third. You can be defensive and still have some threat. Masch was crap at that too and I didn't love him as much as most seemed to. Give me Didi over any of them. Or Molby, McMahon, Whelan, Souness. Just thinking about those players makes me think there's no greater sign that we've learned to appreciate mediocrity than the fact that Lucas has played over a hundred games in the same role.
[/quote]
And yet, I repeat, Lucas is not the final answer. I'm not debating that there's no better out there. We had better and sold them. What im debaying is this pathetic vision of Lucas being completely woeful. Hes not. He's not great but he's far from the player he's made out to be on here
I'll never get used to so called midfielders who completely shit themselves in the final third. You can be defensive and still have some threat. Masch was crap at that too and I didn't love him as much as most seemed to. Give me Didi over any of them. Or Molby, McMahon, Whelan, Souness. Just thinking about those players makes me think there's no greater sign that we've learned to appreciate mediocrity than the fact that Lucas has played over a hundred games in the same role.
[/quote]
And yet, I repeat, Lucas is not the final answer. I'm not debating that there's no better out there. We had better and sold them. What im debaying is this pathetic vision of Lucas being completely woeful. Hes not. He's not great but he's far from the player he's made out to be on here
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47011.msg1405424#msg1405424 date=1317068164]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405418#msg1405418 date=1317067992]
Answer me this then. How is it that he's been in the MOTM top three, voted for by posters on here partly, for the last two seasons and is in there now? How is it consecutive management setups continue to place faith in him? How is it Stevie Gerrard called him out as the player of the season last year? How is it the stats provided, no matter whether you regard them or not, rate him relatively highly? If he so 'fucking shite' how can all those things be wrong and some of you be so right? I never knew we had so many ex-players and managers on here who know better.
[/quote]
It's like with Henderson. I appreciate that Dalglish, Capello and Ferguson all think he's great but they're wrong coz I'm the fucking expert.
[/quote]
ha I think they think he has great potential, no more than that. But yeh you should apply for the chief scout role
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405418#msg1405418 date=1317067992]
Answer me this then. How is it that he's been in the MOTM top three, voted for by posters on here partly, for the last two seasons and is in there now? How is it consecutive management setups continue to place faith in him? How is it Stevie Gerrard called him out as the player of the season last year? How is it the stats provided, no matter whether you regard them or not, rate him relatively highly? If he so 'fucking shite' how can all those things be wrong and some of you be so right? I never knew we had so many ex-players and managers on here who know better.
[/quote]
It's like with Henderson. I appreciate that Dalglish, Capello and Ferguson all think he's great but they're wrong coz I'm the fucking expert.
[/quote]
ha I think they think he has great potential, no more than that. But yeh you should apply for the chief scout role
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405426#msg1405426 date=1317068305]
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47011.msg1405430#msg1405430 date=1317068453]
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
But we didnt. So who would you play as a holding midfielder from those we have available
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
But we didnt. So who would you play as a holding midfielder from those we have available
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405429#msg1405429 date=1317068442]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405426#msg1405426 date=1317068305]
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
[/quote]
I'm only just getting over his sacking, so please don't open old wounds.
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405426#msg1405426 date=1317068305]
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
[/quote]
I'm only just getting over his sacking, so please don't open old wounds.
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405434#msg1405434 date=1317068582]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405429#msg1405429 date=1317068442]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405426#msg1405426 date=1317068305]
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
[/quote]
I'm only just getting over his sacking, so please don't open old wounds.
[/quote]
heh You started it by mentioning Roy . I'd wiped him from existence in my mind until then
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405429#msg1405429 date=1317068442]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47011.msg1405426#msg1405426 date=1317068305]
Rafa used to get creamed on here week in week out for picking Lucas + Roy got nearly everything wrong in his time with us.
[/quote]
is that the Rafa who could do no wrong in your eyes or a different one?
[/quote]
I'm only just getting over his sacking, so please don't open old wounds.
[/quote]
heh You started it by mentioning Roy . I'd wiped him from existence in my mind until then
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47011.msg1405430#msg1405430 date=1317068453]
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
Yeah, he would have been an excellent signing.
*sad face*
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
Yeah, he would have been an excellent signing.
*sad face*
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47011.msg1405433#msg1405433 date=1317068563]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47011.msg1405430#msg1405430 date=1317068453]
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
But we didnt. So who would you play as a holding midfielder from those we have available
[/quote]
When we used to have this debate during the summer, quite a few people would argue he was good enough and that we didn't need another CM.
As far as im concerned Lucas isn't working for us as DM, so do we continue with him or give somebody else a go? We might not have many options but we do have a few we could try.
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47011.msg1405430#msg1405430 date=1317068453]
Parker is way better and available this summer, we should have got him even if he is 'old' he would have walked into the team and been there for at least 2 years enough time to buy a long term dm
[/quote]
But we didnt. So who would you play as a holding midfielder from those we have available
[/quote]
When we used to have this debate during the summer, quite a few people would argue he was good enough and that we didn't need another CM.
As far as im concerned Lucas isn't working for us as DM, so do we continue with him or give somebody else a go? We might not have many options but we do have a few we could try.
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