Jordan Henderson

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

our central midfield is soft as cake currently but to be fair it (the midfield) is creating a lot of chances. people can lay all the praise for the creativity as suarez's door but the creativity has come mostly from the midfield.

 

[Woland]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Who'd win in a fight.

Ming and Aquafanny v Adam and Lucas?

 

[Pesam]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he'd cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.

 

[refugee]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=47002.msg1405047#msg1405047 date=1317018685]
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47002.msg1404695#msg1404695 date=1316935368]
I think Benderson is part of an elaborate and ingenious plot to make us forget about how bad Lucas is.
[/quote]
LMAO :laugh: brilliant Krump, absolutely brilliant!
[/quote]

It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

Do you really think O'Hara is awful? Must admit I think he is half decent (never going to play for a big club but decent enough to give most teams a problem).

Anyway that's irrelevant, our central midfield is soft as shit and we should have replaced Masher the instant the cheque cleared.

 

[Pesam]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=refugee link=topic=47002.msg1405155#msg1405155 date=1317045212]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=47002.msg1405047#msg1405047 date=1317018685]
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47002.msg1404695#msg1404695 date=1316935368]
I think Benderson is part of an elaborate and ingenious plot to make us forget about how bad Lucas is.
[/quote]
LMAO :laugh: brilliant Krump, absolutely brilliant!
[/quote]

It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

Do you really think O'Hara is awful? Must admit I think he is half decent (never going to play for a big club but decent enough to give most teams a problem).

Anyway that's irrelevant, our central midfield is soft as shit and we should have replaced Masher the instant the cheque cleared.
[/quote]

If you give O'Hara time and space on the ball he can appear quite decent but if he is in anyway harassed/intimidated he completely disappears.

 

[refugee]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405158#msg1405158 date=1317045436]
If you give O'Hara time and space on the ball he can appear quite decent but if he is in anyway harassed/intimidated he completely disappears.
[/quote]

Must watch him a bit closer, he always seemed to have a very good passing range to me.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405152#msg1405152 date=1317044794]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he's cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.
[/quote]

Whether we win the game or not Saturday will not just be down to Fellaini versus Lucas. It's how we play as a team which of course the centre of the park will be pivotal to. I'd agree at first Lucas was piss poor for us but I feel he has improved much beyond that to one of our better and most consistent performers. As I've said on many occasions he is not the final answer by any means and was indeed a load of shite on Saturday even though he spent a lot of time covering for the overly static Adam. He wasn't alone though. Carra, Skrtel, Kelly, Adam, Henderson - all had woefully shite games. That's 7 out of 11 players underperforming at the weekend but, you know, blame Lucas all the same as it was obviously all down to him. I think Adam is an issue in a 4-4-2- as he lacks speed of body and thought. He can pass a ball alright but needs to much time on the ball to do it. Still - as for Lucas - besides consistently being voted in the top three MOTM performers over the last couple of seasons, was Gerrards choice as player of the season last year and the fact three consecutive managers see him deserving of a starting place - it's just a shame that apparently in 75% games he is either piss poor or shocking. If only those people in power and LFC could have the insight those of us possess on here. We'd have won the league simply ages ago. If only we had the foresight to sign and retain some decent midfielders who are clearly better than Lucas (and I mean this seriously). You know the types - your Alonsos, Mascheranos, Meireles and Aqualanis of this world. We could have had a cracking midfield. Couldn't fail to win the league with such quality in the middle. We need better than Lucas I agree but he's nowhere as shite as some make out on here.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405152#msg1405152 date=1317044794]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he'd cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.
[/quote]

you seriously think kuyt would do a better job shielding the defense than lucas? I...I don't quite know how to respond to that. maybe we should actually play kuyt in the centre of the park for a laugh.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Well I didn't even gratify the aimless Kuyt point with a response.

 

[Red Mullet]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Krump link=topic=47002.msg1405151#msg1405151 date=1317044511]
Who'd win in a fight.

Ming and Aquafanny v Adam and Lucas?


[/quote]

Adam and Lucas. Aqua is so crossed eye, he'd miss what's thrown at him. And Ming will only come good in the second half of the fight when there's no chance of winning anything.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

I'm done my best to exorcise the roy debacle from my mind, was ming any good in the six months roy was here?

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405171#msg1405171 date=1317046551]
I'm done my best to exorcise the roy debacle from my mind, was ming any good in the six months roy was here?
[/quote]

I thought he did OK especially spending so much time out of position. I certainly wouldnt have allowed him to leave this year given our other central midfield option.

 

[Pesam]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405163#msg1405163 date=1317045829]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405152#msg1405152 date=1317044794]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he'd cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.
[/quote]

you seriously think kuyt would do a better job shielding the defense than lucas? I...I don't quite know how to respond to that. maybe we should actually play kuyt in the centre of the park for a laugh.
[/quote]

Neil, you always come across as being a really nice guy but I rarely get involved in discussions with you because I don't think I've ever agreed with anything you've ever said and therefore I think it would be a waste of time for both of us to debate footballing topics.

That said, Kuyt in centre midfield is not as ludicrous as Skrtel at right back, which our manager deemed appropriate against Spurs. Kuyt is mobile, physical, reads the game well and can also play those superb 3 yard sideways passes that Lucas excels at.

 

[themn]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405171#msg1405171 date=1317046551]
I'm done my best to exorcise the roy debacle from my mind, was ming any good in the six months roy was here?
[/quote]

Was ANY FRIGGING BODY IN OUR TEAM ANY GOOD IN THE SIX MONTHS ROY WAS HERE ?

 

[refugee]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=themn link=topic=47002.msg1405221#msg1405221 date=1317050485]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405171#msg1405171 date=1317046551]
I'm done my best to exorcise the roy debacle from my mind, was ming any good in the six months roy was here?
[/quote]

Was ANY FRIGGING BODY IN OUR TEAM ANY GOOD IN THE SIX MONTHS ROY WAS HERE ?
[/quote]

Gerrard was ok, and Kelly was great (although Roy kept dropping him every time he was great) as far as I can remember. Otherwise, that's about it.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405173#msg1405173 date=1317046841]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405163#msg1405163 date=1317045829]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405152#msg1405152 date=1317044794]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he'd cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.
[/quote]

you seriously think kuyt would do a better job shielding the defense than lucas? I...I don't quite know how to respond to that. maybe we should actually play kuyt in the centre of the park for a laugh.
[/quote]

Neil, you always come across as being a really nice guy but I rarely get involved in discussions with you because I don't think I've ever agreed with anything you've ever said and therefore I think it would be a waste of time for both of us to debate footballing topics.

That said, Kuyt in centre midfield is not as ludicrous as Skrtel at right back, which our manager deemed appropriate against Spurs. Kuyt is mobile, physical, reads the game well and can also play those superb 3 yard sideways passes that Lucas excels at.
[/quote]

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, I just call things as I see them. with regards to kuyt I just don't see him as a holding midfielder.

 

[Pesam]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405228#msg1405228 date=1317050848]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405173#msg1405173 date=1317046841]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47002.msg1405163#msg1405163 date=1317045829]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405152#msg1405152 date=1317044794]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405149#msg1405149 date=1317044239]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47002.msg1405146#msg1405146 date=1317043959]
It hasn't worked. Our centre midfield was outplayed & outmuscled by the awful Jamie O'Hara and the clogger Karl Henry! Lucas was shite, is still shite and will continue to be shite.
[/quote]

He was indeed shite on Saturday. Which worries me significantly as Adam was as bad if not worse.
[/quote]

Adam has played less than 10 games for us as has Henderson, they're both still under review but early signs are not good. Lucas has played over 120 matches for us and has had 2 very good games, 20 or 30 decent performances and the rest he's been anything from poor to fucking shocking. Kuyt would do a better job in centre midfield than Lucas against Everton; he'd cover as much ground as Lucas but give away fewer stupid free kicks, would tackle far harder than Lucas and would play at a higher tempo.

Fellaini versus Lucas on Saturday will be a pivotal factor in why we won't win the game.
[/quote]

you seriously think kuyt would do a better job shielding the defense than lucas? I...I don't quite know how to respond to that. maybe we should actually play kuyt in the centre of the park for a laugh.
[/quote]

Neil, you always come across as being a really nice guy but I rarely get involved in discussions with you because I don't think I've ever agreed with anything you've ever said and therefore I think it would be a waste of time for both of us to debate footballing topics.

That said, Kuyt in centre midfield is not as ludicrous as Skrtel at right back, which our manager deemed appropriate against Spurs. Kuyt is mobile, physical, reads the game well and can also play those superb 3 yard sideways passes that Lucas excels at.
[/quote]

with regards to kuyt I just don't see him as a holding midfielder.
[/quote]

Neither do I but I see him as a better option than Lucas or Spearing at present.

 

[gene hughes]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Pesam is right about Kuyt, I suggested the same thing last season at one point.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

I want to stress that I'm not a lucas fan, all I can say is he (lucas) doesn't annoy me as much as say skrtel (who dives into the challenge without thinking) or adam (who gives the ball away for fun). lucas to me is just 'blah', 'meh', 'vanilla', he just does his job but is neither exceptional or rubbish.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Arbeloa dived in and routinely gave stupid fouls away around the box, but many seemed to think he was wonderful.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47002.msg1405240#msg1405240 date=1317051905]
Pesam is right about Kuyt, I suggested the same thing last season at one point.
[/quote]

Desperation makes you think strange things Gene

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47002.msg1405246#msg1405246 date=1317052283]
Arbeloa dived in and routinely gave stupid fouls away around the box, but many seemed to think he was wonderful.
[/quote]

my memory of arbeloa is hazy seeing as he's been gone for two seasons but I don't remember him diving into tackles rather than staying on his feet. I do remember tha barca game where messi didn't get a sniff and I dont ever remember bob hacking messi down.

 

[MaBigTip]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47002.msg1405246#msg1405246 date=1317052283]
Arbeloa dived in and routinely gave stupid fouls away around the box, but many seemed to think he was wonderful.
[/quote]

Lucas was at fault for the goal against wolves, why? Because he switched off and didnt track a runner. He does this a lot, he's at fault for a lot of gifted opportunities. I said about 2 years ago Kuyt would be worth a shot at DM because of how poor Lucas can be. Anyone who thinks Gerrard wouldn't be a better option there if given that job is insane, not that we'd want to stifle his attacking influence that much. I also think Spearing is better, his non stop engine allows him to cover more ground, track more ruunners, hes a better tackler and hes more influential going forward despite not being at good a passer. Now that said I like Lucas cause he's a good dependable guy, I root for him when he does something well but despite all his improvement I would rather let Spearing develop or experiment with Kuyt (not in the derby). With regards to Kuyt, if Parkand Riggs can play CM, Kuyt can do it better. If Adam was fit enough I'd be happy for him to play despite his awful tackling, but Idk he could turn into something special for us because he influences the attack quite a bit, but i'm worried.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Who's Parkand Riggs ? Is he American ?

 

[MaBigTip]

Re: Jordan Benderson

oopsies, typed that out on my phone; Park and Giggs, who find themselves in CM enough.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=47002.msg1405274#msg1405274 date=1317054804]
oopsies, typed that out on my phone; Park and Giggs, who find themselves in CM enough.
[/quote]

I knew that 😉 Not holding mids though are they ? And did they start?

 

[MaBigTip]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Yes they have started, and they may not be strict holding midfielders but they do a job defensively. Which is really what we should be wanting from Kuyt, or any CM. Lets make other midfields worry more about defending rather than inviting the pressure onto a weak CM pairing. And we both know that Kuyt has more in his locker defensively than either of them. He does usually guard one of the other teams strikers from corners.

 

[MaBigTip]

Re: Jordan Benderson

Oh and I know its not perfect or a long term solution, either Coady can step up or we need to go buy M'Vila

 

[Sunny]

Re: Jordan Benderson

I don't think anyone would disagree we need an improved long term solution

 

[Farkmaster]

Re: Jordan Benderson

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47002.msg1405284#msg1405284 date=1317056689]
I don't think anyone would disagree we need an improved long term solution
[/quote]


Which is sad, given we spent a lot of midfielders this summer.