Six Nations

[Rouge Penguin]

I think England are in for a long afternoon as well.

 

[vantage]

I do hope so.

That 1st 40 mins by Wales was lacklustre in the extreme, hampered by ballsing up the 1st lineout. But they'll be right up for it against England, who I believe are pretty poor right now....

 

[Rouge Penguin]

Im under no illusion that England are going to compete for the 6N's, a win from the last 3 games should be deemed a successful campaign this year.

This, imo, is what Johnson should have done, but didnt have the balls/authority to do. Next year and the next WC, we're going to have a decent young squad.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=48142.msg1482573#msg1482573 date=1329222092]
I do hope so.

That 1st 40 mins by Wales was lacklustre in the extreme, hampered by ballsing up the 1st lineout. But they'll be right up for it against England, who I believe are pretty poor right now....
[/quote]

If your lot go into the game with that attitude they could be in for a nasty surprise.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Yeah regardless of how they are playing, Twickers is never an easy place to go to. I'm expecting England to bring in Morgan, Flood, Lawes and Tuilagi, which straight away makes them a far stronger side than what we've seen so far in this six nations.

JJ: What have you made of Morgan in his brief showings mate?

 

[Judge Jules]

Very promising indeed, mate. Promising enough to make you fellas pretty sick about losing him to us.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

It's killing me seeing him in an England shirt.

I'm just amazed that Dowson (sp?) has been getting in ahead of him.

 

[Judge Jules]

I'd hazard a guess Dowson won't be doing that for much longer. Not that he's been poor, but Morgan clearly has a lot more in his locker.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48142.msg1482621#msg1482621 date=1329231334]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=48142.msg1482573#msg1482573 date=1329222092]
I do hope so.

That 1st 40 mins by Wales was lacklustre in the extreme, hampered by ballsing up the 1st lineout. But they'll be right up for it against England, who I believe are pretty poor right now....
[/quote]

If your lot go into the game with that attitude they could be in for a nasty surprise.
[/quote]
What attitude would that be? I said we'd be right up for it & England are currently pretty poor? I don't think you can argue with that much. That said, it is never easy at Twickers and I expect England to be equally up for it. I think it will be a narrow victory for the Welsh but and England victory would not surprise me at all.....

 

[Judge Jules]

What I had in mind was that calling England "pretty poor" is a bit previous and smacks of overconfidence, even though you fellas have an excellent side at the minute.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48142.msg1482786#msg1482786 date=1329257227]
What I had in mind was that calling England "pretty poor" is a bit previous and smacks of overconfidence, even though you fellas have an excellent side at the minute.
[/quote]

Based on what I have seen & read so far, beating (just) Scotland and scrapping past Italy would be indicative that by their own lofty standards, this England side is "poor". It is largely new but will it suddenly gel against Wales?

No doubt both sides will be up for it. It could go either way. But heading into to this derby, I see Wales as Liverpool (favs) and England as Everton, They could do it, but it will be a surprise to most unbiased observers. Betfair has Wales 8/11 & England 8/5 at the mo, which is indicative of what I'm saying.

I'm not overconfident nor particularly looking forward to it, but I thought our trip to Croke Park was the harder away game.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

You're being a little harsh on Everton mate, England would be more of a poor mans version of Stoke.

George North is expected to be fit and back in training on Monday.

 

[vantage]

Because of the rivalry I was trying to liken it to a derby game. And be nice to JJ of course.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=48142.msg1482923#msg1482923 date=1329296524]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48142.msg1482786#msg1482786 date=1329257227]
What I had in mind was that calling England "pretty poor" is a bit previous and smacks of overconfidence, even though you fellas have an excellent side at the minute.
[/quote]

Based on what I have seen & read so far, beating (just) Scotland and scrapping past Italy would be indicative that by their own lofty standards, this England side is "poor". It is largely new but will it suddenly gel against Wales?

No doubt both sides will be up for it. It could go either way. But heading into to this derby, I see Wales as Liverpool (favs) and England as Everton, They could do it, but it will be a surprise to most unbiased observers. Betfair has Wales 8/11 & England 8/5 at the mo, which is indicative of what I'm saying.

I'm not overconfident nor particularly looking forward to it, but I thought our trip to Croke Park was the harder away game.
[/quote]

Sorry for being pedantic but, it's been a while since you've been to Croke Park, and you'll most likely never be there again. You were in the Aviva/Lansdowne Road.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=48142.msg1482934#msg1482934 date=1329300237]
Because of the rivalry I was trying to liken it to a derby game. And be nice to JJ of course.
[/quote]

Arf.

You had trouble enough with the Jockoes yourselves. Wales deserved to win but not by that margin, and you were at home. You'll have trouble with the Italians too, although you may have an easier time than we did if Castrogiovanni's out.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

For anyone who missed it, Wales did the Grand Slam!

 

[Rosco]

Great article on scrummaging by a former Irish international prop:

How do we turn a problem into a prop?

Sat, Mar 24, 2012
Following the scrum debacle at Twickenham, former Ireland and Leinster tighthead prop EMMETT BYRNE attempts to demystify the dark arts of the front row, explaining the roles of the loosehead and tighthead props, the mechanics of the scrum and looks at what Ireland could have done to survive in London
THE ROLE OF THE TIGHTHEAD PROP
IN BROAD terms, he must lock the scrum and represents the most important player because his position is the most vulnerable point in a scrum in terms of weight and leverage and therefore represents the weakest point where the opposition attack. On his feed he tries to stabilise the scrum and on opposition ball he works in conjunction with the rest of the pack to try and fracture the opposing scrum.
He won’t lead the attack; the loosehead will start it and he’ll follow. The natural weight of the scrum is on the loosehead’s side. At tighthead you’re playing against two players, the loosehead and the hooker. You have to deal with two people and more often than not they are underneath you which hands them a biomechanical advantage.
The revised scrum laws demand of a prop that his shoulders must be in line with, if not above, his hips. In the old days a tighthead was able to lower the height of the scrum by any means possible and this included dipping the shoulders well below hip height. The laws now facilitate the loosehead to get under the tighthead.
The loosehead’s head, neck and shoulder are under his chest. That’s difficult to defend against. The tighthead needs to understand the change of angles required to minimise the surface area the loosehead can work with. Obvious physics suggest that if he can get right in under his chest, he is going to do more damage than if you just give him a small area under your right shoulder.
By changing angles and distribution of weight you can actually minimise the surface area that you present to a loosehead. The other important job a tighthead must do is lower the height of the scrum. People are obsessed with pre-engagement height but it is not as important as post-engagement height. Pre-engagement optimal height is proportional to force production, trying to get too low will reduce this. You must also be relaxed so as not to engage antagonistic muscle groups which will slow you down. On engagement you exert maximal force, lower the height and are rigid like a statue while taking short steps maintaining optimal force. On the feed of the ball another shift in angle counters the opposition snap drive, this, however, requires accurate timing. There is more than one way to scrum as a tighthead and the best in the business can problem solve from one scrum to the next.
WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FRONTROW AFTER THE SCRUM ENGAGES
The loosehead cannot push forward unless he lifts first; this destabilises the tighthead. The latter must apply downward pressure. If the tighthead only applies forward pressure he’s going to be forced to stand up. He must apply forward and downward pressure simultaneously. This is where the new training regimes of the last seven of eight years in terms of props have changed, with great core strength a priority.
The core is a link between the upper and lower body and essential to applying downward pressure. If you lock the hips down then the shoulders follow, which is so crucial.
The understanding of the angles of the hip, knee and ankle will help when dealing with different body types and understanding where the optimal pushing position is for that given body type. Ideally you keep short steps in a scrum as they produce better leverage on going forward.
The loosehead’s role is to attack the tighthead on opposition ball and stabilise the scrum on their own ball. There is a significant difference in the role of both loosehead and tighthead. The tighthead is doing his job if he holds the scrum and keeps it stable. The loosehead is responsible for taking the opposition tighthead out of the game.
In a nutshell, a tighthead holds; a loosehead attacks. A loosehead leverages up and forward, tighthead leverages down, in and forward. A loosehead doesn’t need to worry about angles so much as just generating as much force as possible while ensuring he remains under his opposite number and his right hip remains tight to the hooker.
IDEAL BODY COMPOSITION FOR MODERN TIGHTHEAD
It has changed on the introduction of new laws regarding the hip and shoulder height in scrums. In the old days, they employed a right arm pull down, so to speak. Ideally, tightheads were heavy, broad men and they tried to “wrap up” a loosehead, as it was known; getting the elbow pointing downwards after you got a grip. The most important thing was not to let the loosehead open up your right shoulder.
Modern tighthead props in general aim for a point in between the hooker and the loosehead. They drive in, applying downward pressure and looking for a slight inward angle. They use their right arms to pull the loosehead out and then try and leverage themselves into the gap and at the same time separating the hooker and loosehead.
When attacking the centre of the scrum, ie the gap between loosehead and hooker, it is crucial that the tighthead gets his left shoulder under the opposition hooker. The type of build that facilitates this is a thickset man with narrow shoulders, this again reduces surface area; being very broad can be disadvantageous. It’s like an arrow penetrating. Body weight for stability purposes is also a factor. The average for a modern tighthead is between 115kg and 125kg.
THE ROLE OF THE BACK FIVE IN A SCRUM AND THE IMPORTANCE OF TIMING AND STABILITY
The timing of the hit is vital. However, in pressure situations players start to worry about their own jobs. Everybody must be 100 per cent committed at scrum time to the task in hand and not just paying lip service.
The term that Mike Cron, the All Black scrum coach uses to describe this, is “loafing”. He uses the tug of war analogy as a way of illustrating his point. If you had one man against one man they are going to give you 100 per cent because they are going to be exposed otherwise.
If you add people to the rope on either side, they start to delegate the responsibility because they can delegate the blame. In a scrum it is the exact same principle. It’s about timing, working and understanding stability, binds and spinal alignment. Strength without stability is worth nothing. You can’t launch a rocket from a canoe.
WHY A TIGHTHEAD PROP IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE TEAM WELLBEING
There is so much stacked against him technically that to find a guy who can cope is priceless. No matter how well drilled your scrum is, if you have a weak tighthead it will be under pressure. It filters all the way back throughout the team and there is a psychological fillip for the opposing eight.
The scrum is an ideal attacking weapon as it is the only time in a match when a team can orchestrate a one-on-one in terms of the respective backlines. When you have problems in the scrum not only are you at a psychological disadvantage, but also you’re going backwards and it curtails your attacking options: your backrow is taken out of the game and your backline is back-pedalling in defence or attack.
You are also vulnerable to the interpretation of the referee, running a high risk of giving away penalties. Because the tighthead side is the weakest in terms of the physical make-up of a scrum it is therefore the obvious area to attack.

 

[Rosco]

TWICKENHAM REVISITED
To me, England were focused on damaging the Irish scrum from the outset and Ireland didn’t expect that. They thought it would be a standard Test match with a couple of pressure scrums.
The English started with a double drive and got a penalty. Ireland needed to react aggressively in the very next one because by not doing so it encouraged England to chase all the scrums.
You have to use a lot of energy to do that damage in a scrum. If the opposition are fighting back then a team won’t bother expending that energy because they won’t get a value from it. However, England quickly realised it was worth their while to expend that energy.
As the game goes on the psychological advantage kicks in significantly. You can not go back to parity. By the time Tom Court came on Ireland were psychologically on the back foot already. Even a brilliant tighthead would have had his hands full.
Ireland didn’t react so they so they found themselves having to survive.
When in survival mode you have to be clever. You need the hooker, tighthead, number eight and scrumhalf to come together.
Referee Nigel Owens was standing on the far side watching Tom Court and not the feed.
Reddan could have gone for a crooked feed so that Best could push rather than hook. You talk to Tom Court and say ‘I need you to hold the scrum for one and a half seconds after the hit’.
You lose the scrum as an attacking weapon but it’s about survival.
If Owens watches the feed, then Court takes an advantageous bind. The referee mightn’t like it but he can’t see it. You feed the ball straight but it buys Court time to keep the scrum steady.
On England ball, Best and Healy needed to be very tight and attack under Dan Cole. When they get underneath him and Court comes across at a 10 to 15 degree angle all the weight of the scrum shifts onto the English tighthead side, creating a natural wheel. The only way that can be stopped is if Cole splits Healy and Best. As long as they stay together and understand that you’re okay.
Unfortunately for the penalty try in the second and third scrums Cole managed to split Healy and Best.
Emmett Byrne won nine caps for Ireland from 2001-2003, playing on both the loosehead and tighthead sides of the scrum at Test level. In May 2006 he became the 10th player to make 100 appearances for Leinster, starting 51 matches at tighthead and 25 at loosehead.
He was noted for his ability in the scrum, a player who could genuinely play both sides of the frontrow. Ireland’s annihilation in the scrum at Twickenham and the IRFU’s advertisement seeking a scrum coach at academy level make this set-piece very topical.
TIGHTHEAD OPTIONS: And two wildcards
RONAN LOUGHNEY
The 27-year-old Galway born prop can play both sides of the scrum. He has represented Ireland at Youths, U-19, U-21 and Ireland Wolfhounds. levels.
JAMIE HAGAN
The 24-year-old Leinster tighthead prop was educated at Gormanston College and was a member of the Ireland team that won an U-20 Six Nations Championship Grand Slam in 2007. He has played for Ireland Youths, U-18s, U-20s and Wolfhounds.
STEPHEN ARCHER
His rugby education began at CBC Cork and took in UCC, Cork Constitution and the Munster academy before making his senior debut .The 24-year-old has represented Ireland through the age-grades before winning a cap for the Wolfhounds.
ADAM MACKLIN
The 22-year-old captained Methody to an Ulster Senior Cup success from number eight but switched to tighthead when he joined the Ulster academy. He recovered from a cruciate knee ligament injury and has played for Ireland at underage level.
WILDCARDS
TADHG FURLONG
The 19-year-old from New Ross, who is in the Leinster academy, is very highly regarded. Would have played for Ireland in the Under-20 Six Nations but for injury. Should be back for Junior World Championship. Has played for Ireland at U-18 clubs, U-19 and U-20.
JOHN ANDRESS
The 28-year-old Belfast-born tighthead played 26 times for Harlequins over two seasons before joining the Exeter Chiefs last summer for a second spell there, having left Ulster for the Chiefs before moving to London.
© 2012 The Irish Times

 

[Jürgen4PM]

The provinces don't help out the national side much by having 10 non irish props.

 

[Rosco]

That's the main reason why the IRFU reduced the number of overseas players allowed for next season.

 

[Judge Jules]

Andress has signed for Worcester Warriors BTW.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Ah, well at least they're doing something about it i guess.

I don't know that Andress bloke, but i've been keeping tabs on Exeters games (Mitchell one of our props plays for them) and they've been smashing sides in the scrum all season.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Hartley handed eight-week ban for biting Ferris in England's win over Ireland




Dylan Hartley will be available for England's summer tour to South Africa after a disciplinary hearing suspended him for eight weeks.
Hartley was cited for biting the finger of flanker Stephen Ferris during the 30-9 RBS 6 Nations victory over Ireland on March 17.
The Six Nations hearing upheld the citing and issued a ban that will force him to miss the remainder of Northampton's season but enable him to play in the first Test against the Springboks on June 9.

Incident: The moment England hooker Dylan Hartley bit Stephen Ferris
The offence was found to have contravened IRB Law 10.4 (m) 'acts contrary to good sportsmanship'.
The independent Six Nations committee examined the evidence and listened to Hartley, his legal representative, Northampton director of rugby Jim Mallinder, England forwards coach Graham Rowntree and Ferris via a video link.
It was decided that the offence merited a low entry point in the IRB's table of sanctions and allowed mitigation of four weeks.
The 26-year-old can resume playing from May 14 and will only play for Saints again this season if they reach the Aviva Premiership final 12 days later.
Hartley expressed his disappointment at the length of his suspension.
'I am disappointed by the result and I will wait for the written judgment as to how the panel came to their conclusion,' he said.
'I now have to put it behind me and focus on supporting Saints in training and off the field.'
Rowntree said: 'It's unfortunate for Dylan and Northampton, especially as he was in good form during the Six Nations and he has developed as a player and a leader. However, we are looking forward to him being available for the tour to South Africa.'
The written judgment should be publish by Friday.
Biting carries a low-end entry point of a 12-week suspension, while the mid-range punishment is 18 weeks and there is a ban of 24-plus weeks at the top end.
The maximum sanction is a four-year punishment. It had been speculated that Hartley could be facing a lengthy spell on the sidelines having served a 26-week ban for gouging in 2007.
Hartley, who was born in New Zealand but qualified for red rose duty through his English-born mother, was cited for making contact with the eye areas of Wasps players Jonny O'Connor, James Haskell and Joe Worsley during a Premiership fixture.

In the thick of it: Hartley in action for England against Ireland
Hartley pleaded not guilty on all three counts, but a Rugby Football Union disciplinary panel found him guilty in relation to the offences against Haskell and O'Connor, but he was cleared on the Worsley charge.
It is understood that given the length of time that has passed since the gouging incidents, it was felt the four-week reduction was appropriate.
The incident with Ferris occurred during the 28th minute of England's comfortable win at Twickenham, which saw them secure second place in the Six Nations table after an encouraging campaign under interim coach Stuart Lancaster.
Television footage did not capture the bite, but Ferris and some of his team-mates complained to Welsh referee Nigel Owens in the immediate aftermath.

Owens said he had not seen anything but told captains Chris Robshaw and Rory Best: 'I have an accusation of biting, a clear mark on the finger.


'I did not see something. If I do it will be dealt with severely, which would be a red card.
'It could be dealt with afterwards. If it is seen it will be dealt with. I did not see it.
'Have a word. Nothing like that takes place in this game. I can only deal with what I see. Have a word please.
'I have had a look. Unless I can see it, it's been dealt with, okay?'
Owens then spoke to Ferris while the Ulster forward received treatment, saying: 'I have done all I can. It has been noted. If I don't see it I can't do nothing about it. It has been spoken about and dealt with.'
The charge of an act 'contrary to good sportsmanship' against Hartley was brought by the Italian citing commissioner Alberto Recaldini after reviewing footage.
But Recaldini incorrectly documented that the incident took place in the 23rd minute, when it fact it occurred in the 28th minute.
It is understood that Recaldini has acknowledged the mistake in his report.
The chances of Hartley's legal team successfully using the mistake as a loophole to have the case dismissed reduced significantly following an incident on England's tour to Australia in 2010.
On that occasion lock Dave Attwood was cited for incidents of alleged stamping in a game against the Australian Barbarians, but he was cleared without a hearing as the citing commissioner was Australian, and therefore deemed to not be independent.
A clause is now in place under the International Rugby Board's regulation 17 that allows the chairman of a disciplinary committee to note an inaccuracy of that nature, but to still proceed to dealing with the alleged act of foul play.

 

[Judge Jules]

Kenny4, there's talk in the local paper in Worcester that Cardiff Blues want Phil Davies as Director of Rugby. Any comments?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

It's been confirmed that they'll be looking for a DOR, but i've heard nothing as to who it is mate.

 

[Judge Jules]

Blues' interest in Phil Davies confirmed in today's paper. He seems interested too, because the report says Worcester have given him permission to talk to them.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

What sort of job has he done with your lads mate?

 

[Judge Jules]

A good one. He's forwards coach, and nobody's really got on top of the Worcester pack all season. Richard Hill's now looking at a backs coach apparently, so if Phil D goes it'll be a nuisance having to replace him just when the coaching team was about to be completed, but there you are.