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The 6 Nations

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[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=31054.msg802370#msg802370 date=1234281661]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=31054.msg802359#msg802359 date=1234281186]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802299#msg802299 date=1234275328]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=31054.msg802292#msg802292 date=1234274524]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=31054.msg802291#msg802291 date=1234274454]
I hate myself for saying this, but I'd love the English to do you Welsh gits.
[/quote]

Behave Doc!

Once they won the World Cup they were insufferable!
[/quote]

Were they not insufferable before they won the WC as well?
[/quote]

I'll admit there was a degree of jingoism flying around when we won it, but a LOT of that was a reaction to the sniping from the Aussies and you Celts, who would call us "insufferable" whatever happened.
[/quote]

Ha. Like the Welsh or Irish wouldn't be jingoistic and smug if they won the World Cup...

[/quote]

Exactement, mon gar. Not that we'll ever get the chance to find out. 8)
 
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802335#msg802335 date=1234278794]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802328#msg802328 date=1234277433]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802302#msg802302 date=1234275560]

Even in form Hook cannot control a test level game - he struggles at regional level. On form, Jones pisses all over Hook at controlling a game and playing level in general.
As for Hayes, he's technique is illegal in every scrum - if only referees would pick him up on it he would be penalised off the park.

Rafa4PM - I still think that Powell has a long way to go to to convince me he has the all-round game to permanently replace Jones at 8. We're lucky that in Jones (Dafydd on Sunday, Ryan normally) and Nugget we have two backrow players that up their workrate to compensate for Powell disinclination to compete at the breakdown. He's a great linebreaker and kick returner, but if you actually look at his game and not just when he's running with the ball in hand, he's got a long way to go. However, in Gatland and Edwards (and Young at Cardiff) we have the coaches who can help Andy improve this aspect of his game. If, and hopefully when, he makes these changes to his game (I admit that he's already better than he was last season) then I'll be more than happy to applaud him for it. He finally seems to have got his head sorted though which can only be good for Wales and Cardiff.

As for the PO'C / AWJ question I was just wondering who people thought would switch out of position, as there are differences between playing 4 & 5. Not doubting it would a phenomonal partnership should they click...

[/quote]

I think you're on your own in that opinion, but time will tell i guess.
[/quote]

I'm not though. On here maybe, but I'm not too concerned about that as this is primarily a soccer forum and ergo the people that post are primarily soccer fans.
[/quote]

TBH i wasn't referring to likes of fans like me and you with that comment, i was mainly going on what the likes of Gatland, JD, Young and many other leading figures in Welsh rugby have said. You might be proven right (allthough i highly doubt it), but to not recognize the added dimensions that Powells performances have given us in the back row since taking over R. Jones old spot is a little blinkered at best.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=31054.msg802373#msg802373 date=1234281910]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=31054.msg802370#msg802370 date=1234281661]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=31054.msg802359#msg802359 date=1234281186]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802299#msg802299 date=1234275328]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=31054.msg802292#msg802292 date=1234274524]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=31054.msg802291#msg802291 date=1234274454]
I hate myself for saying this, but I'd love the English to do you Welsh gits.
[/quote]

Behave Doc!

Once they won the World Cup they were insufferable!
[/quote]

Were they not insufferable before they won the WC as well?
[/quote]

I'll admit there was a degree of jingoism flying around when we won it, but a LOT of that was a reaction to the sniping from the Aussies and you Celts, who would call us "insufferable" whatever happened.
[/quote]

Ha. Like the Welsh or Irish wouldn't be jingoistic and smug if they won the World Cup...

[/quote]

Exactement, mon gar. Not that we'll ever get the chance to find out. 8)
[/quote]

You never know JJ you never Know :)
 
Andy Powell is ‘world-class,’ - Warren Gatland

WARREN GATLAND has hailed his new Wales No 8 Andy Powell as a “world-class†performer.

Blues back rower Powell will win his first cap at the age of 27 in Saturday’s Millennium Stadium showdown with world champions South Africa.

Wales coach Gatland says he has fully merited selection on the back of his rampaging regional displays this season.

“Andy has produced some outstanding performances at No 8 and I don’t think enough has been made of those performances,†said the Kiwi. “If that was a foreign player, Jerry Collins or someone like that, everybody would be absolutely raving about those performances.

“A couple of the games he has had for the Blues in the European Cup have been world-class.

“He has been around for a while and is an experienced head despite his lack of international caps and he is most definitely in form.

“We will be looking to get the ball in his hands and see him run.â€

Grand Slam skipper Ryan Jones has been moved across to the blindside flank in order to accommodate Powell packing down at No 8.

“Ryan is adept on either side of the scrum, but to switch our captain does tell you a little bit about what we think of Andy,†said Gatland.


Since then he's gone onto be one of the stand out performers in all of the tests hes played in (MOTM in 1).................I think its quite clear why Ryan Jones better get used to playing at 6.
 
Bryndaloo - out of interest what do you see as the differences between 4 and 5 ?

And I agree with Hayes, he's a godawful scrummager and always has been. He's invaluable as a lifter though, he's quite durable and decent around park.
 
Hes won an awful lot of caps with Ireland + the B&I Lions + helping Munster dominate the HC, for someone who is apparently shite at doing his primary job.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802515#msg802515 date=1234296362]
Hes won an awful lot of caps with Ireland + the B&I Lions + helping Munster dominate the HC, for someone who is apparently shite at doing his primary job.
[/quote]

He never played a test for the Lions Rafa.

He's very good at everything but scrummaging, and his continued presence in the Irish team has as much to do with the lack of Irish props as it does his ability.

I've been watching us for years (and I've scrummaged for years) and if you watch Hayes he regularly get screwed in the scrum. His body position is always all over the place.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg802532#msg802532 date=1234297728]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802515#msg802515 date=1234296362]
Hes won an awful lot of caps with Ireland + the B&I Lions + helping Munster dominate the HC, for someone who is apparently shite at doing his primary job.
[/quote]

He never played a test for the Lions Rafa.

He's very good at everything but scrummaging, and his continued presence in the Irish team has as much to do with the lack of Irish props as it does his ability.

I've been watching us for years (and I've scrummaged for years) and if you watch Hayes he regularly get screwed in the scrum. His body position is always all over the place.
[/quote]

He still got seleceted though Rosco which is a feat in itself.

I wouldn't suggest for one moment that his main strength is in his scrummaging, but to say that he is "god awful" at it is a little over egging it IMO. If he was as bad as you are making out then he'd not of lasted so long as 1st choice for club or country (Munster could easily sign some foreign import).
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802542#msg802542 date=1234298665]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg802532#msg802532 date=1234297728]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802515#msg802515 date=1234296362]
Hes won an awful lot of caps with Ireland + the B&I Lions + helping Munster dominate the HC, for someone who is apparently shite at doing his primary job.
[/quote]

He never played a test for the Lions Rafa.

He's very good at everything but scrummaging, and his continued presence in the Irish team has as much to do with the lack of Irish props as it does his ability.

I've been watching us for years (and I've scrummaged for years) and if you watch Hayes he regularly get screwed in the scrum. His body position is always all over the place.
[/quote]

He still got seleceted though Rosco which is a feat in itself.

I wouldn't suggest for one moment that his main strength is in his scrummaging, but to say that he is "god awful" at it is a little over egging it IMO. If he was as bad as you are making out then he'd not of lasted so long as 1st choice for club or country (Munster could easily sign some foreign import).
[/quote]


He's improved his scrummaging a hell of a lot, though fairly recently. Knowing the tough scrummaging Argies were in our WC group, a lot of work went into this, and surprisingly, given Haye's stage of career, he seems to be holding his own much, much better these days.

Traditionally, he has been a liability in the scrum though- Irish scrums have always collapsed on Hayes' side, leading to innumerable penalties- probably because of his height. Having never been near the front row, though, I'll leave others to pick up on the cause of his deficiencies.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802444#msg802444 date=1234288211]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802335#msg802335 date=1234278794]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802328#msg802328 date=1234277433]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802302#msg802302 date=1234275560]

Even in form Hook cannot control a test level game - he struggles at regional level. On form, Jones pisses all over Hook at controlling a game and playing level in general.
As for Hayes, he's technique is illegal in every scrum - if only referees would pick him up on it he would be penalised off the park.

Rafa4PM - I still think that Powell has a long way to go to to convince me he has the all-round game to permanently replace Jones at 8. We're lucky that in Jones (Dafydd on Sunday, Ryan normally) and Nugget we have two backrow players that up their workrate to compensate for Powell disinclination to compete at the breakdown. He's a great linebreaker and kick returner, but if you actually look at his game and not just when he's running with the ball in hand, he's got a long way to go. However, in Gatland and Edwards (and Young at Cardiff) we have the coaches who can help Andy improve this aspect of his game. If, and hopefully when, he makes these changes to his game (I admit that he's already better than he was last season) then I'll be more than happy to applaud him for it. He finally seems to have got his head sorted though which can only be good for Wales and Cardiff.

As for the PO'C / AWJ question I was just wondering who people thought would switch out of position, as there are differences between playing 4 & 5. Not doubting it would a phenomonal partnership should they click...

[/quote]

I think you're on your own in that opinion, but time will tell i guess.
[/quote]

I'm not though. On here maybe, but I'm not too concerned about that as this is primarily a soccer forum and ergo the people that post are primarily soccer fans.
[/quote]

TBH i wasn't referring to likes of fans like me and you with that comment, i was mainly going on what the likes of Gatland, JD, Young and many other leading figures in Welsh rugby have said. You might be proven right (allthough i highly doubt it), but to not recognize the added dimensions that Powells performances have given us in the back row since taking over R. Jones old spot is a little blinkered at best.
[/quote]

Where have I not recognised the added dimensions Powell has brought? It is in the part where I said he's a good line breaker and kick returner - something Wales had been missing. All I've ever said is that he needs to work on his breakdown commitment, something which on the other Rugby thread I gave you a video example of during the SA game which cost Wales 3 points.
I also said in other threads that his improved body position going into contact has helped enormously. We've agreed to disagree on this before as I'd prefer a back row of Nugget, R Jones and J Thomas (the latter as he *vastly* inproves the perfomance of our lineout) with Powell being an impact player coming off the bench.
As for Hayes, he binds on the arm *every time*. This is illegal. If you re-read my posts I never actually said that he was a poor scrummager (although he's not brilliant) I merely commented on his illegal technique - something which never gets picked by referees.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg802489#msg802489 date=1234294390]
Bryndaloo - out of interest what do you see as the differences between 4 and 5 ?

And I agree with Hayes, he's a godawful scrummager and always has been. He's invaluable as a lifter though, he's quite durable and decent around park.
[/quote]

In simple terms here's how I understand it and have always seen it:

the front line jumper (4) tends to be the big burly chap who is the "enforcer", if you like. His lineout jumping is pretty much straight up and down, with his role to be a strong scrummager (usually behind the loose head to give support to the weakest area of the scrum), strong tackler and "tight" player. Think Craig Quinnell.

the middle line jumper must be more athletic because his lineout role will be to move up and down the line. He will often arc his back to take the ball "behind him" in the lineout. With this athleticism comes the requirement to get around the pitch a little more fluently but he won't have as much bulk. Think John Eales.
 
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802692#msg802692 date=1234342070]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802444#msg802444 date=1234288211]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802335#msg802335 date=1234278794]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg802328#msg802328 date=1234277433]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802302#msg802302 date=1234275560]

Even in form Hook cannot control a test level game - he struggles at regional level. On form, Jones pisses all over Hook at controlling a game and playing level in general.
As for Hayes, he's technique is illegal in every scrum - if only referees would pick him up on it he would be penalised off the park.

Rafa4PM - I still think that Powell has a long way to go to to convince me he has the all-round game to permanently replace Jones at 8. We're lucky that in Jones (Dafydd on Sunday, Ryan normally) and Nugget we have two backrow players that up their workrate to compensate for Powell disinclination to compete at the breakdown. He's a great linebreaker and kick returner, but if you actually look at his game and not just when he's running with the ball in hand, he's got a long way to go. However, in Gatland and Edwards (and Young at Cardiff) we have the coaches who can help Andy improve this aspect of his game. If, and hopefully when, he makes these changes to his game (I admit that he's already better than he was last season) then I'll be more than happy to applaud him for it. He finally seems to have got his head sorted though which can only be good for Wales and Cardiff.

As for the PO'C / AWJ question I was just wondering who people thought would switch out of position, as there are differences between playing 4 & 5. Not doubting it would a phenomonal partnership should they click...

[/quote]

I think you're on your own in that opinion, but time will tell i guess.
[/quote]

I'm not though. On here maybe, but I'm not too concerned about that as this is primarily a soccer forum and ergo the people that post are primarily soccer fans.
[/quote]

TBH i wasn't referring to likes of fans like me and you with that comment, i was mainly going on what the likes of Gatland, JD, Young and many other leading figures in Welsh rugby have said. You might be proven right (allthough i highly doubt it), but to not recognize the added dimensions that Powells performances have given us in the back row since taking over R. Jones old spot is a little blinkered at best.
[/quote]

Where have I not recognised the added dimensions Powell has brought? It is in the part where I said he's a good line breaker and kick returner - something Wales had been missing. All I've ever said is that he needs to work on his breakdown commitment, something which on the other Rugby thread I gave you a video example of during the SA game which cost Wales 3 points.
I also said in other threads that his improved body position going into contact has helped enormously. We've agreed to disagree on this before as I'd prefer a back row of Nugget, R Jones and J Thomas (the latter as he *vastly* inproves the perfomance of our lineout) with Powell being an impact player coming off the bench.
As for Hayes, he binds on the arm *every time*. This is illegal. If you re-read my posts I never actually said that he was a poor scrummager (although he's not brilliant) I merely commented on his illegal technique - something which never gets picked by referees.
[/quote]

Fair enough i just can't quite grasp that as you admit that he brings an added dimension to our back row and that he has improved in the areas that "you" think he is weak in, that you'd then want to revert to a starting back row that was clearly lacking in certain areas. I can see where you're coming from with regards to J Thomas adding more to the line out, but TBH we were still not winning anything like the amount of consistent ball in this area when he was in the pack, so i personally think that we lose more than we gain if we did choose to bench Powell. Once again though we'll have to agree to disagree.

With regards to Hayes i've always thought that when it comes to scrummaging (and back row play for that matter) to a certain extent its all about what you can get away with. Their are a number of players who are deemed to be amongst the best in the world (not that i am saying Hayes is) who have constantly broken the rules game in game out.

Out of interest have you heard about this new prospect in the front row who's playing for the Scarlets?

Craig Cross
Position: Prop
DOB: 12/08/1987
Height: 195cm
Weight: 139Kg

A lot of people who's opinions i respect are saying that he'll be challenging A Jones very soon.
 
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=31054.msg802706#msg802706 date=1234344526]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg802489#msg802489 date=1234294390]
Bryndaloo - out of interest what do you see as the differences between 4 and 5 ?

And I agree with Hayes, he's a godawful scrummager and always has been. He's invaluable as a lifter though, he's quite durable and decent around park.
[/quote]

In simple terms here's how I understand it and have always seen it:

the front line jumper (4) tends to be the big burly chap who is the "enforcer", if you like. His lineout jumping is pretty much straight up and down, with his role to be a strong scrummager (usually behind the loose head to give support to the weakest area of the scrum), strong tackler and "tight" player. Think Craig Quinnell.

the middle line jumper must be more athletic because his lineout role will be to move up and down the line. He will often arc his back to take the ball "behind him" in the lineout. With this athleticism comes the requirement to get around the pitch a little more fluently but he won't have as much bulk. Think John Eales.

[/quote]

That's what I presumed you were getting at, which is why my initial response was that O'Connell could jump at two.

And I agree with you're take on it, I see the roles as largely being the same.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803173#msg803173 date=1234391443]
139kg ?

Is he a new prospect for the front row or a front row on his own ?
[/quote]

Ha.

I've seen him a couple of times and he's f**king huge Rosco.
 
It's *only* actually a bit less than 22 stone.

Although now that I think of it's not that ot of the ordinary, I once played with a 21 stone tighthead. He was rubbish.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803275#msg803275 date=1234395870]
It's *only* actually a bit less than 22 stone.

Although now that I think of it's not that ot of the ordinary, I once played with a 21 stone tighthead. He was rubbish.
[/quote]
Was it you Ross?
 
Nearly 22 stone i think.

I haven't seen enough of him yet, but it seems that the Scarlets will be playing him a fair bit more as this season goes on, so hopefully i'll get a good look at him.
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=31054.msg803276#msg803276 date=1234395915]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803275#msg803275 date=1234395870]
It's *only* actually a bit less than 22 stone.

Although now that I think of it's not that ot of the ordinary, I once played with a 21 stone tighthead. He was rubbish.
[/quote]
Was it you Ross?
[/quote]

I was a hooker, and never got close to 22 stone.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=31054.msg803278#msg803278 date=1234395985]
Nearly 22 stone i think.

I haven't seen enough of him yet, but it seems that the Scarlets will be playing him a fair bit more as this season goes on, so hopefully i'll get a good look at him.
[/quote]

well you could hardly miss him
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803275#msg803275 date=1234395870]
It's *only* actually a bit less than 22 stone.

Although now that I think of it's not that ot of the ordinary, I once played with a 21 stone tighthead. He was rubbish.
[/quote]

Well i can't comment on how good he is (or isn't) But this lad has been talked up a fair bit for quite a while and at 6.5 and 22 stone I'm eager to take a look.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803279#msg803279 date=1234396045]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=31054.msg803276#msg803276 date=1234395915]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=31054.msg803275#msg803275 date=1234395870]
It's *only* actually a bit less than 22 stone.

Although now that I think of it's not that ot of the ordinary, I once played with a 21 stone tighthead. He was rubbish.
[/quote]
Was it you Ross?
[/quote]

I was a hooker, and never got close to 22 stone.
[/quote]
I have a sneaking feeling that 22 stone hookers would not do very well......
 
Here's the Wales team 20mins early for y'all...

Wales: Lee Byrne; Leigh Halfpenny, Tom Shanklin, Jamie Roberts, Shane Williams; Stephen Jones, Michael Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, Ian Gough, Alun-Wyn Jones, Ryan Jones (captain), Martyn Williams, Andy Powell
Replacements: Huw Bennett, John Yapp, Luke Charteris, Dafydd Jones, Dwayne Peel, James Hook, Andrew Bishop
 
Further news:

Powell is a doubt and along with Shane Williams will face a fitness test tomorrow.
If Powell were to miss out then Ryan Jones would move to 8 with Dafydd Jones taking his place at 6.
Should Williams miss out then Mark Jones would come in as a straight swap.
 
Hopefully they both pass the their fitness tests.

F**k me are we ever going to see Henson actually fit and ready to play for Wales again?
 
Hopefully they don't. ;)

At one stage we thought Henson might be coming to play for Mike Ruddock at Worcester. When even that fell through I began to wonder if he'll ever be back on a consistent basis.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=31054.msg803583#msg803583 date=1234462691]
Hopefully they don't. ;)

At one stage we thought Henson might be coming to play for Mike Ruddock at Worcester. When even that fell through I began to wonder if he'll ever be back on a consistent basis.
[/quote]

I was supremely confident of a comfortable win last Sunday night, now as we are approaching match day and news of a few potential injuries I'm beginning to get a little nervous.

Henson is in danger of wasting a god given talent unless he can get himself sorted out promptly.
 
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