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Anti Kneejerk Thread

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Dreambeliever

Dreambeliever

Will he believe again?
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Let’s summarise the pre season and the first quarter of the season to discuss where we think we are and where we will finish without the kneejerk rubbish.

After losing essentially our entire CM and main striker the world was caving in.
Our transfer activity was deemed a joke where we weren’t going to sign anyone only for us to go and pull a few rabbits out of few hat.
We didn’t reinforce some key areas or at least not with the calibre of what we wanted (Endo).
We started with a draw against Chelsea and everyone was saying this was a season of transition to Klopp 2.0 and to expect little.
Then we went a bit of a run where City, Newcastle, Utd and Chelsea particularly all faltered.
Suddenly we were in the title race and had signed the next Gerrard.
Low and behold, we miss a truck load of chances and salvage a 1-1 draw with Luton and we are back to the doom and gloom.
Nunez is a donkey, Salah is finish and should be sold, Mac isn’t good enough for DM and Klopp mismanaged the game.

So where do people think we will end up this season and what constitutes success?

For me CL qualification is a must. The manner of how we play is important too. I want to see us building towards a potential strong run at City next year when after back to back trebles they may lose some desire.
A cup would be great for the trophy cabinet and confidence and belief in the players. However cups are hard to win, especially European ones regardless of the tier as you can come up against teams on the rise or who come into form just as you hit a wobble. The fact the English league is such a physical battle and a slog every week only adds to the difficulty of conquering any European competition.
So for me I think this season will be a success and we’ll find ourselves with the below
League 2nd
League cup lose the final
Fa cup won’t make the semis
Europa Loss the quarter
 
People are always trying to figure out where this team is at, and it's largely because they want to see whether it's a team that could really rise to the peaks we've seen so recently. If this team wasn't being compared with those ludicrous required standards, I think we'd be happy with where we are, and far less restless. Far more flawed teams than this one even won titles in the olden oil free days.

The other part is some of these players have an expiry date they are nearing, and while the younger players have room to grow, it's only a couple years left, as well as with klopp, at the heart of all of this. There's just a lot of impatience everywhere except for our ownership.

I think we are doing well to be where we are. I think our attack is significantly more deep and multifaceted than it used to be, but I don't think it's anywhere near where it was.

I also think we've improved at cm massively, but we don't have a first team in midfield that really makes much sense to me. Further, I still think the jury is out on the whole Trent thing. Our midfield looks imbalanced front to back, and from left to right. Yes, our players still haven't been together that long, but it isn't that. Our players are far more technical but the whole midfield are worse defensively and worse at pressing.

Gravenberch really catches the eye, szobo can really run and loves to turn, but teams can play through and around them, and combined with the attack, we are more wearing teams down than we are striking fear into them, and we don't control games from beginning to end at all. Our counterattacking is back, especially with Nunez,but where before we had two incredibly fast speed merchants, now we have one, and he isn't an accomplished finisher. He continues to generate two diametrically opposed highlight videos on a weekly basis.

I also think our defense is the shallowest area in terms of depth, and id like to see a cb nail down playing with vvd. Hopefully konate as his ceiling is highest.

I think we're so much closer than we were, and not so far off a much more composed side, but I don't have much confidence we will be ruthless or urgent in getting there.

The side at least is a team again and worthy of support not just off what they did in the past. I think the league could be a complete bloodbath, even more than it looks at the moment. Securing 4th would actually represent some sort of success this year. If things go right a little, of course we can win a cup. The league though? Things would have to go very right and we'd need city hobbled with some injuries.
 
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I think the turnaround from where we were in summer is astonishing. Might be argued we were lucky to get the fees we did for Hendo and Fabs, but a few months ago it was all doom and gloom here.
The specialist DM thing is still an issue - I like Endo but can’t escape the feeling he may not be quite good enough, although I really want him to succeed. He’s not going to do that without more minutes.
The second thing for me is the heavy reliance on four CB’s with poor injury records, albeit VVD’s issue is more what he lost from a long-term injury, rather than being in and out of the side.
But after the way we turned things around in midfield, even when we all thought we were having a shit transfer window, I’m confident these issues can and will be addressed, and the final draft of Klopp 2.0 looks exciting.
Up front, I find myself feeling sorry on a weekly basis for the 2 lads that don’t start, because all of them are good enough to deserve that. And that’s a good place to be.
I hope this post was long enough for you all. 😉
 
There is a chance of someone other than City winning it this season. They have already lost two, they aren't running away with it (yet).

We aren't taking our chances to take advantage and get ahead though.

In terms of success this season, if we don't qualify for the Champions League that is a failure. That is the most important thing, and that is an acceptable season. Winning a trophy on top of that would be a bonus, and would make it a good season.
 
The next period is crucial.

We can’t drop points to City when we play them - by that I mean, we can’t lose - a draw is fine.

We can’t lose too many games - but there is some wiggle room.
 
Richey said:
There is a chance of someone other than City winning it this season. They have already lost two, they aren't running away with it (yet).

We aren't taking our chances to take advantage and get ahead though.

In terms of success this season, if we don't qualify for the Champions League that is a failure. That is the most important thing, and that is an acceptable season. Winning a trophy on top of that would be a bonus, and would make it a good season.
Click to expand...
When we are favourites for the EL and LC that's too low a bar. Top 2, EL and LC is the minimum as I see it.
 
Frogfish said:
When we are favourites for the EL and LC that's too low a bar. Top 2, EL and LC is the minimum as I see it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that cup competitions can be a minimum requirement. Anything can happen in cups. I would be disappointed if we didn't give them a decent go.
 
Top 4 was the minimum aim before the season, but with how seamlessly our new signings have slotted in I would say that now a top 3 finish has to be the target.
 
Dreambeliever said:
Let’s summarise the pre season and the first quarter of the season to discuss where we think we are and where we will finish without the kneejerk rubbish.

After losing essentially our entire CM and main striker the world was caving in.
Our transfer activity was deemed a joke where we weren’t going to sign anyone only for us to go and pull a few rabbits out of few hat.
We didn’t reinforce some key areas or at least not with the calibre of what we wanted (Endo).
We started with a draw against Chelsea and everyone was saying this was a season of transition to Klopp 2.0 and to expect little.
Then we went a bit of a run where City, Newcastle, Utd and Chelsea particularly all faltered.
Suddenly we were in the title race and had signed the next Gerrard.
Low and behold, we miss a truck load of chances and salvage a 1-1 draw with Luton and we are back to the doom and gloom.
Nunez is a donkey, Salah is finish and should be sold, Mac isn’t good enough for DM and Klopp mismanaged the game.

So where do people think we will end up this season and what constitutes success?

For me CL qualification is a must. The manner of how we play is important too. I want to see us building towards a potential strong run at City next year when after back to back trebles they may lose some desire.
A cup would be great for the trophy cabinet and confidence and belief in the players. However cups are hard to win, especially European ones regardless of the tier as you can come up against teams on the rise or who come into form just as you hit a wobble. The fact the English league is such a physical battle and a slog every week only adds to the difficulty of conquering any European competition.
So for me I think this season will be a success and we’ll find ourselves with the below
League 2nd
League cup lose the final
Fa cup won’t make the semis
Europa Loss the quarter
Click to expand...


For me @Dreambeliever What would have been a successful season and a step forward would have been buying Bellingham, and SzoboszlaiIt would have shown ambition and intent and something really specail to billed on in midfield...
Adecent run or better in the Europa League,FA, and League Cups and a top 4-6 finish.
For me that would have put us in a great position for next season...

Would have been happy with that

Dreambeliever said:
So where do people think we will end up this season and what constitutes success?
Click to expand...
Adecent run or better in the Europa League,FA, and League Cups and a top 4-6 finish.doing way better in the transfer market
 
I really think we are in with a shot of the league. But it requires some city slips and to beat them and Arsenal at least once. Top 4 - 100% we will get. And maybe a CUP.

Right now, we are about 10 games away from a CL spot by winning the EL.
 
We are further ahead then I thought we would be, especially with the midfield, but we're not ready to challenge the likes of City for a title. We may get one more attempt to do so under Klopp with VVD and Salah, so this year is about laying down the foundations.

We lack a top-class six who can both use the ball well and wrestle control of games against battling opponents. We need Nunez to start putting away more chances and then figure out what we are going to do with Trent.

There will be other needs longer term, but after watching us this year I'd gladly back Klopp spending big on a class DM at the expense of other positions and having a proper go for the league next year. Quansah stepping up has been a welcome surprise and has alliviated some the concerns at CB.
 
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There is a decent article about the impact of Mac Allister as a 6, and that he's not getting the credit he deserves.

F-ZmbvgX0AAlv2I
 
Donavan Ried said:
For me @Wet WetDreambeliever What would have been a successful season and a step forward would have been buying Bellingham, and SzoboszlaiIt would have shown ambition and intent and something really specail to billed on in midfield...
Adecent run or better in the Europa League,FA, and League Cups and a top 4-6 finish.
For me that would have put us in a great position for next season...

Would have been happy with that


Adecent run or better in the Europa League,FA, and League Cups and a top 4-6 finish.doing way better in the transfer market
Click to expand...
Not getting Jude at £20m is one thing but not getting Jude at £100m plus dad and agent fees is another. We needed a proper 6, and not to have got a competent 6 can be the only big complaint of the summer.
I am not going to say we will win the league, and I am not saying our play is 100% convincing but I do believe we can keep touch with City. So for me a good season would be finishing 6-8 points behind the winners of the league, the Europa Cup, and a domestic cup,
 
Hansern said:
There is a decent article about the impact of Mac Allister as a 6, and that he's not getting the credit he deserves.

F-ZmbvgX0AAlv2I
Click to expand...
And that's just blown the whole "Mac can't play #6" rhetoric, out of the water. Substitute Andre's name for Mac's in that chart and some here would have been all over it with buy buy buy.

I must admit though that it shocks me too.
 
Frogfish said:
And that's just blown the whole "Mac can't play #6" rhetoric, out of the water. Substitute Andre's name for Mac's in that chart and some here would have been all over it with buy buy buy.

I must admit though that it shocks me too.
Click to expand...
It would be good to see stats for how often each was by passed or dribbled past and how many times they gave the ball away in their own third.
 
Squiggles said:
We are further ahead then I thought we would be, especially with the midfield, but we're not ready to challenge the likes of City for a title. We may get one more attempt to do so under Klopp with VVD and Salah, so this year is about laying down the foundations.

We lack a top-class six who can both use the ball well and wrestle control of games against battling opponents. We need Nunez to start putting away more chances and then figure out what we are going to do with Trent.

There will be other needs longer term, but after watching us this year I'd gladly back Klopp spending big on a class DM at the expense of other positions and having a proper go for the league next year. Quansah stepping up has been a welcome surprise and has alliviated some the concerns at CB.
Click to expand...
You would know if Klopp brings in Andre this January, that he is definitely preparing for a full scale assault next season for the title and CL. In that case this season will be good with CL qualification and with one or two trophies in the cabinet. If he adds one more player either in defense or upfront just know he is taking no prisoners next season.
Chasing City for the title this season, when he is rebuilding his midfield will be a bonus and not likely to have been in Klopp's initial plans. I think it will be a welcome thing but hoping that it will not disrupt his plans for next season. I expect him to start demanding more from his players as we go on.
 
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