Coutinho

[Ryan]

Ryan's having a great run here ... Coutinho with 2 assists today after Ryan says he's a player who contributes no goals and assists ...

Hmmm, I don't see how that disproves my point. Coutinho still doesn't create or score enough.

The first assist was sublime though, no argument. A proper assist. A pass as good as you'll see. The second one was made to look better with Sturridge's first touch.

I lost count of the amount of times Coutinho gave the ball away on Saturday. He was frustrating the shite out of me. Can someone (Binny?) pull some stats togtehor to show how many times he lost possession on the weekend?

And let me remind you we got beaten by Chelsea during the week cos he couldn't convert a one on one.

There seems to be a crusade on here these days to pigeon-hole people in one or the other camp. Brodgson, Sakho, Lucas, Allen, Coutinho... Must be the Modo effect or something.

I've said for a long time that Coutinho's frustration stems from the fact he could be one of the world's great players. But he's not cos he's not doing enough in the final third. It's not enough to play as a number 10 these days and only contribute half a dozen goals. If we want to win something, he needs to double or triple that number. So why can't we discuss that? Am I a Coutinho-hater because I'm criticising his output?

The level of discussion on here has boiled to fucking wrestling levels. It's either cheers or boo's. And it's nauseating.

 

[MaBigTip]

Hmmm, I don't see how that disproves my point. Coutinho still doesn't create or score enough.

The first assist was sublime though, no argument. A proper assist. A pass as good as you'll see. The second one was made to look better with Sturridge's first touch.

I lost count of the amount of times Coutinho gave the ball away on Saturday. He was frustrating the shite out of me. Can someone (Binny?) pull some stats togtehor to show how many times he lost possession on the weekend?

And let me remind you we got beaten by Chelsea during the week cos he couldn't convert a one on one.

There seems to be a crusade on here these days to pigeon-hole people in one or the other camp. Brodgson, Sakho, Lucas, Allen, Coutinho... Must be the Modo effect or something.

I've said for a long time that Coutinho's frustration stems from the fact he could be one of the world's great players. But he's not cos he's not doing enough in the final third. It's not enough to play as a number 10 these days and only contribute half a dozen goals. If we want to win something, he needs to double or triple that number. So why can't we discuss that? Am I a Coutinho-hater because I'm criticising his output?

The level of discussion on here has boiled to fucking wrestling levels. It's either cheers or boo's. And it's nauseating.

Its fucking nauseating that you can say that when you crow over David Silva who plays as a number 10 and similar positions to our Coutinho. Give him time.

Ryan meet Dreamy status.

http://us.soccerway.com/players/david-josue-jimenez-silva/3026/

 

[Ryan]

David Silva is one of the best players in the world. You and your cute table from 'us.soccerway' probably won't convince me, or anyone with a clue, otherwise.

Thanks though.

 

[rurikbird]

David Silva is one of the best players in the world. You and your cute table from 'us.soccerway' probably won't convince me, or anyone with a clue, otherwise.

Thanks though.

Courtesy of @King Binny

Big difference between the two of them right now, but I think Coutinho has every chance to catch up to or surpass Silva's numbers by the time he gets to his prime age.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Hmmm, I don't see how that disproves my point. Coutinho still doesn't create or score enough.

The first assist was sublime though, no argument. A proper assist. A pass as good as you'll see. The second one was made to look better with Sturridge's first touch.

I lost count of the amount of times Coutinho gave the ball away on Saturday. He was frustrating the shite out of me. Can someone (Binny?) pull some stats togtehor to show how many times he lost possession on the weekend?

And let me remind you we got beaten by Chelsea during the week cos he couldn't convert a one on one.

There seems to be a crusade on here these days to pigeon-hole people in one or the other camp. Brodgson, Sakho, Lucas, Allen, Coutinho... Must be the Modo effect or something.

I've said for a long time that Coutinho's frustration stems from the fact he could be one of the world's great players. But he's not cos he's not doing enough in the final third. It's not enough to play as a number 10 these days and only contribute half a dozen goals. If we want to win something, he needs to double or triple that number. So why can't we discuss that? Am I a Coutinho-hater because I'm criticising his output?

The level of discussion on here has boiled to fucking wrestling levels. It's either cheers or boo's. And it's nauseating.

I'd agree with your analysis re: both the assists.

He's 22, playing in one of the most competitive leagues in the world and for a team who's expectations are ridiculously high despite the fact ... well ... you know.

You bang on about David Silva - and rightly so. Tell me, what was he doing at 22? Many goals? Nope. Many assists? Nope. Playing for a 'tier 1' footy club? Nope. So yes, everyone is well aware Coutinho has his issues - they're rather glaring - just like Rodgers, Sakho, Lucas (I'm surprised you mention him considering your 'cheer or boo' mentality with him) etc ... but people are also aware that he's still learning, still growing and on a good trajectory. The modern fan has no patience - and I won't use the term I used a few years back despite its accuracy - and it's frustrating to see people slam players when you can see the progress right in front of your eyes.

My comment was made because of your original comment - a simple 'boo' deriding one of our players' abilities. If you're looking for level of discussion, lead the way ole chap. You're top of the the line here - and you're well aware of it. But if you want to take little jabs at players etc, then don't get all up in arms when it's thrown back.

 

[mark1975]

Like I said in the other thread, at 22yrs old, he's well on course to becoming a top player. His link up play with Sterling is growing and growing, statistically he's almost up there - ie the point about Lallana scoring and assisting more - this season it's 4 assists to Coutinho and 2 to Lallana, last season it was 7 to Coutinho and 6 to Lallana, so it's not just wide of the mark, it's completely unfounded. If you don't need stats or "cute tables" to tell you something, don't make throwaway comments about one player contributing more goals and assists.

The whole dumbing down of Coutinho is baffling, well it is when it's being used as a means to big Lallana up. I'm a big fan of both, but I don't need stats to tell me which one is having more of an influence on the side at the moment.

 

[StevieM]

I don't think there's anything wrong in being frustrated with Coutinho - it's not necessarily a negative viewpoint - more of a view of where Coutinho needs to be better for us to be better.

He's about the age where he has to start consistently delivering and justifying being a regular starter.

He's been better of late - and that's a good thing.

 

[Fabio]

I still think ryans right

Coutinho has just added consistency to his game, however he is still wasteful. He doesn't dictate a game like he had the ability to.

Yes he has moments of astounding brilliance, but other times he's over hitting passes or dragging shots

Why is it so much to expect him to improve on these?

22 or not, he's shown he has the ability. He should make use of it more

 

[Fabio]

I don't want Coutinho to wind up like ever other brazilian AM in recent times. Washed up and back in Brazil by 30.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I don't want Coutinho to wind up like ever other brazilian AM in recent times. Washed up and back in Brazil by 30.

Kaka and Ronaldinho bought hit the heights early ... and were burnt out by the late 20s ... As he won't be a star (if ever) until his mid 20s, I don't think burn out is likely!

 

[Judge Jules]

I still think ryans right

Coutinho has just added consistency to his game, however he is still wasteful. He doesn't dictate a game like he had the ability to.

Yes he has moments of astounding brilliance, but other times he's over hitting passes or dragging shots

Why is it so much to expect him to improve on these?

22 or not, he's shown he has the ability. He should make use of it more

That highlighted bit is the crux of the thing for me. IMHO you dismiss that factor too easily. He *is* still learning the trade and IMHO making a sod of a good job of it. If he were Lallana's age and these comments still applied to him, that would be the time to start getting on his case.

 

[mark1975]

I dunno Mark - Lallana has scored more and created at least the same in much less playing time - unfortunately he got injured just as he was finding a sweet spit in consistency & end product.

Ryan also has been pretty consistent in saying that he's a wonderfully talented player.

There's room for both Lallana & Coutinho - but with Sturridge back and Sterling likely to revert to a deeper role - one of the 3 is going to lose out.

..... and that's before we consider that Gerrard may play a more forward role as well.

I don't dispute he's a wonderful player, but the stats don't back it up, he's scored marginally more goals and created marginally less, he's also "peak age", 5yrs on Coutinho. I've posted the stats twice now.

 

[Mystic]

I think it's very obvious that Coutinho is on an upwards curve, he's a better player than he was a year ago, that's easy to see, @Fabio, you say Coutinho had just added consistency to his game, last year wasn't that one of the main things we were saying he needs to add to his game? As has been mentioned repeatedly, Coutinho is a very young talent, he's an absolutely wonderful player for his age and he's clearly getting better, I can understand people wanting more from him, he's a tease in that regard because he looks like he can do anything on the pitch, but often frustrates, but just give him some time, by the time he's 24, I reckon he'll be mentioned alongside the likes of Silva, Fàbregas and Ozil (of old).

 

[MaBigTip]

Courtesy of @King Binny

Big difference between the two of them right now, but I think Coutinho has every chance to catch up to or surpass Silva's numbers by the time he gets to his prime age.

And what about comparing Coutinho's numbers to Silva's at 22. Cause then it's not even a question. Look at his actual end product. Not that far off. Coutinho is well on his way and should 100% be part of our starting XI. Its ridiculous to be frustrated with Coutinho when you see how much he's come on this year. He has had a consistent run of high level performances now. Its coming together.

 

[Hansern]

I'm guessing Coutinhos stats look pretty good compared to Silva aged 22.

He's developing and will continue to frustrate at times.
But he's also added other aspects to his game

He's said he's working extra hours on his finishing. That will come with time.
We certainly expect a lot from a 22 year old kid.
He's been brilliant for a few months now.

 

[Fabio]

I know I'm being harsh on him, but the lads got the ability to be a great.

He should be being pushed to continually develop as much as he could be

Never settle

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Coutinho is a really strange choice of player to be giving out about, when we have the likes of Borini, Lambert and Balotelli still in the squad.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Its also a bit unfair to criticise him for his assist stats when he's been playing with strike force that couldn't finish off a medium sized dinner.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

The lad just created 2 assists and we won the game.

And of so many other worse players to talk about, we talk about Coutinho. And this coming from a poster who used to adore Luis Garcia, probably one of the most frustrating player to watch ever to grace the club.

Is there any other player or person in the club we haven't created a thread or threads to critique yet ?

How about the tea lady ??

 

[Fabio]

Coutinho is a really strange choice of player to be giving out about, when we have the likes of Borini, Lambert and Balotelli still in the squad.

Completely understand where you come from

But they're lost causes and we've probably seen the best of them. All if them shouldn't be here by the start of next season

Coutinho I want here until he retires, but that doesn't mean I want him to continue at the level he's at.

I criticise because I expect/want better, because he CAN be so much better

 

[FoxForceFive]

The lad just created 2 assists and we won the game.

And of so many other worse players to talk about, we talk about Coutinho. And this coming from a poster who used to adore Luis Garcia, probably one of the most frustrating player to watch ever to grace the club.

Is there any other player or person in the club we haven't created a thread or threads to critique yet ?

How about the tea lady ??

If the tea lady was fit, so watching her saunter over to you was a real treat for the eyes, & made the world's nicest cup of tea, with amazing biscuits, but almost every time she brought it to you she spilt it all over the floor just a yard away, then it'd be worth talking about.

 

[SummerOnions]

If the tea lady was fit, so watching her saunter over to you was a real treat for the eyes, & made the world's nicest cup of tea, with amazing biscuits, but almost every time she brought it to you she spilt it all over the floor just a yard away, then it'd be worth talking about.

Always slightly to the left of where you're standing

 

[tony]

Ffs isn't it obvious he's a player undergoing development. He seems to really have upgraded his body strength and is putting a shift in pressing wise since the utd game. As for assists he hasn't exactly had much to aim at this season, Stirling aside. He'll be good for us and fuck off to la liga in three years no doubt.

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

He's becoming consistently epic.

Cringe.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

If the tea lady was fit, so watching her saunter over to you was a real treat for the eyes, & made the world's nicest cup of tea, with amazing biscuits, but almost every time she brought it to you she spilt it all over the floor just a yard away, then it'd be worth talking about.

No no, you would walk over, be a patient gent and help her, while your mates snigger and poke fun at her. Wouldn't you ?

 

[keniget]

What's the basis for comparing Coutinho to Silva anyways?

If I was going to compare him to a well known Spanish technician, I'd probably go for Iniesta. And it's always been suggested that Iniesta doesn't score enough given his talent.

But really Coutinho is Coutinho. He needs to improve (his shooting / finishing has largely been awful for example) but for me he's one of the most exciting (and fun to watch) players we've had on our books in many a year and frustrating isn't really the first word I'd choose to describe him.

 

[Skullflower]

coutinho is a fucking beast

 

[Skullflower]

he'll learn to score and assist more over the next year or so.

 

[StevieM]

I'm not quite sure what's happening in this thread.

I don't see the issue with pointing out where a young player needs to improve in order to reach the highest levels.

That's kind of what constructive criticism is.

I also don't see what the problem is with identifying a young player with a high upper talent range and being frustrated when he's not delivering to the standards he can reach.

He's 22 - he should be establishing himself as an integral part of the team.

He arguably is - but he can be better.

Compare him to Oscar at Chelsea if you want a fairer comparison than Silva.

Coutinho could be better than Oscar.

Overall he isn't, at the minute.

 

[HC]

I imagine he'd look better in a better team.

Oscar and willian etc have some fantastic players surrounding them . Coutinho is head and shoulders above markovic, henderson, Lucas et al.

His ability to ghost past 2/3 players is phenomenal. He is still a bit wasteful but Suarez has mostly proven that you can flick that switch on over your Summer holiday..