Post Match EPL Fulham (A) 2-2 Sunday 4th January 15:15

[King Binny]

View: https://x.com/MiguelDelaney/status/2007873087476568263

View: https://x.com/PartedBeard/status/2007868244196221205

The warning Liverpool ignored to underline Arne Slot’s alarming issue

Fulham 2-2 Liverpool: After taking the lead in stoppage time through Cody Gakpo, the Reds ignored a recurring problem, gifting Harrison Reed the space to rifle a shot into the top corner and ensure the points were shared

www.independent.co.uk

Liverpool almost look like a team constantly playing catch-up with themselves, playing the last game, if not quite fighting the last battle.

That could be witnessed in the nature of Fulham’s equaliser.

When pressed on the space allowed to Reed, Slot explained that it was partly down to the team’s response to long throws and set-pieces. That has obviously been a distinctive problem in this campaign, to the point it actually brought change in Liverpool’s staff over the last week, with the departure of coach Aaron Briggs.

You could say that’s the club trying to get ahead of things, but they still look behind.

Expecting Fulham to launch the ball into the box, Liverpool instead offered up the space for Reed.

And sure, it was a sensationally perfect strike, that Slot himself said came from the sort of xG position that almost never brings success, and all this from a player who was celebrating only his fourth Fulham goal.

But, put bluntly, he’s still a Premier League professional. If you give them that kind of time and space, they can put the ball where they want to.

“Total inspiration from himself in that moment,” Silva said afterwards. “If somebody deserves this kind of moment, it is him.”

Liverpool allowed it. Slot acknowledged he would have wanted one of his players to be quicker coming out to him, but even that could be linked to this lack of edge, sharpness, intensity… whatever you want to call it.

It actually sounds all the worse given what Silva said when asked about that. He pointed out how, mere minutes before Reed’s goal, Fulham had rolled a similar situation out to Sander Berge.

Liverpool had due warning, but didn’t heed it.

 

[tomasjj]

View: https://x.com/lfcsavvy/status/2007893029496209781

the horseshoe of death
only we are the ones getting bored to death

 

[Halmeister]

That was actually pretty quick and expansive for us

 

[Farkmaster]

Every thing I want us to do more we used to do more. Everything I want us to be we used to be. The focus, the lethality at the end of games, the directness and aggression, the fitness, the pressing, the confidence, the never say die, the pace, the relentlessness exhausting the opposition. Everything that klopp hates most--everything we have been taught is wrong about football over years now--is what we are now.

 

[Irishanfield]

Oh come on. If he hadn't brought Gomez on everyone would be saying 'why not bring Gomez on for 2 mins - we were winning, no need to go for more, shore up the defence. And Gakpo had played 98 mins. I have no problem with the sub.

Maybe with the fact no-one went to him but the chance of him scoring from there - a player who's now only scored 4 times in his life - was 1000/1.

It is just our luck at the moment, 2 offside goals, 2 x woodwork and then that.

Offside is offside has nothing to do with luck and gakpo was offside for his header which hit the post. Think it was flagged offside anyway but if I'm wrong and it was allowed then it wouldnt have counted anyway if it went to var..

Just or luck my arse. We hit the post once and they hit the post once. Overall we were poor in the 1st half and apart from a 5-10 minute period before we scored were were pretty shit in the 2nd half.. Fulham were the better side after we scored
We then seemed to resort back into safety first slow possession football after getting back In the game.

 

[Irishanfield]

Slot has merely steadied the ship since our losing run, we nowhere good enough to challenge top 3 currently...arsenal are going to be looking forward to playing us Thursday, as we lack confidence, tempo and ability to hold onto leads. Hope Etitike is back quickly as Gakpo is a mediocre alternative

Ship definitely hasn't been steadied, foundations have been built on sand and will come crashing down sooner or later

 

[Irishanfield]

I thought we were fucking shite in the second half as well. Fulham took their foot off the gas until we scored because they knew we don't really create anything. As soon as they went for us they had us up the wall and unable to get out our own half. Fulham.

I can't understand how people are saying we were impressive in that 2nd half... We had a good 10ish minute spell leading up to the equaliser and after that we went shit again and Fulham were looking more dangerous than us which to be fair wasn't hard

So winning the league doesn’t warrant respect when so many others came close over and over but couldn’t get it done? Rightio.

Not slagging the manager off every 2 mins hardly means you don’t care about the club.

At this stage (and my view hasn’t changed this season so far) he deserves time to see if he can get us back to the top.

Will he get us there? Fuck knows. Does he deserve the chance to without being called a cunt and to be bombed out of the club at every turn? Absofuckinglutely.

At this stage I expect him here at the start or next season but let’s see what the next 6 months bring.

Not everyone who wants him gone calls him a cunt..

He got the respect for winning the league and earned a little leeway with a shit show that happened this season. You have to also realise that for some of us we had issues with how we were playing last season especially from around feb/march so this isn't just based off this season but actually over the course of 12 months..
I dislike his boring slow possession based football with his clueless attacks. It's so bad that it's an actual chore to watch us.. I don't go into games thinking we will win or even create good chances

 

[Whaddapie]

My dad died on new years day. He's not missing anything with this team.

I marginally preferred watching this inevitable draw than writing his eulogy, but it was close.

Very sorry to hear this news, mate... Hope you and the family are doing as ok as possible. Hang in there. YNWA.

 

[Frogfish]

Still struggling to understand how Wirtz goal was onside, but hey ho

Tolerance is 5 cms (due to camera frame speed) :


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTGnVaIDHsr/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

In the first two seasons of VAR there were some very confusing offside decisions. The lines drawn to the defender and the attacker would be on top of each other.

There were many complaints that this was against the spirit of the offside law.

So from the start of the 2021-22 season all leagues added a tolerance level, or benefit of the doubt, of about 5cm to the old offside technology. It meant that if the two lines touched, the player would be given onside regardless of the on-field decision.

This was because of inaccuracies in the technology, like the correct moment the ball has been passed.

In effect a player could now be marginally offside on the technology, but onside when the tolerance level was applied.

 

[Frogfish]

Offside is offside has nothing to do with luck and gakpo was offside for his header which hit the post. Think it was flagged offside anyway but if I'm wrong and it was allowed then it wouldnt have counted anyway if it went to var..

Just or luck my arse. We hit the post once and they hit the post once. Overall we were poor in the 1st half and apart from a 5-10 minute period before we scored were were pretty shit in the 2nd half.. Fulham were the better side after we scored
We then seemed to resort back into safety first slow possession football after getting back In the game.

Offsides are often a matter of inches, that fraction of a second making a difference (not the 2m he was offside the second time) so yes, often that comes down to luck (contrast with Wilson's goal).

We hit the woodwork twice (bar & post) - as Slot himself said.

We were good for 20-25 mins from around 60 mins, energy, pressing, chances, but minimise it if it makes you feel better slagging off the team rather than acknowledging the good moments, that have been so few and far between this season.

We did indeed drop off - after Wirtz was subbed off. It was like flicking a light switch. Night and day. As much because we had no real CF anymore (Isak and Eki injured and Gakpo now at LW). Injuries clearly a major factor influencing player selection, strategy and performance.

Even though we shaded the xG (0.75 to 1.35) a draw was probably the right result overall. It's obviously not the rhetoric the usual crowd are baying, to be expected.

 

[tomasjj]

I was surprised last night. At the post game interview, Slot said something like he still had the same philosophy even if he didn’t have the players for it.

"I didn't change as a manager. I would love to play with eight attackers if that's possible defensively as well, but if those eight attackers don't defend enough it's hard to win a game of football," said Slot.

"My philosophy of football hasn't changed this year compared to all the seasons I was a manager before. But we have to do it with the players that are available."

What does this mean? Does he adopt to the players he has or does he stay true to his philosophy?

 

[Woland]

It's shorthand for 'it's not my fault'

 

[Irishanfield]

Offsides are often a matter of inches, that fraction of a second making a difference (not the 2m he was offside the second time) so yes, often that comes down to luck (contrast with Wilson's goal).

We hit the woodwork twice (bar & post) - as Slot himself said.

We were good for 20-25 mins from around 60 mins, energy, pressing, chances, but minimise it if it matters you feel better slagging off the team rather than acknowledging the good moments, that have been so few and far between this season.

We did indeed drop off - after Wirtz was subbed off. It was like flicking a light switch. Night and day. As much because we had no real CF anymore (Isak and Eki injured and Gakpo now at LW). Injuries clearly a major factor influencing player selection, strategy and performance.

Even though we shaded the xG (0.75 to 1.35) a draw was probably the right result overall. It's obviously not the rhetoric the usual crowd are baying, to be expected.

So you are saying we were good from when we scored the equaliser till about the 80th minute? What did we create in that time? Fulham looked the far more likely to score even though they didn't create much either bar the Ali save and hitting the bar chance but still looked more dangerous coming at us to us getting at them

Mac hit the crossbar with a header just before we equalised and gakpoo hit the post on the 1st half with a header he should probably have scored but was clearly offside so it wouldn't have counted if it wasn't already blown up for which I think it may have
Slot says alot of stuff though.. Like Fulham scored with their only chance.. Which was a lie.

Our shit attack is down to his tactics. It's a nice excuse to blame not having ekitike or isak which if we were creating chances in other games say like Leeds or any of our basically last 15 gsmes then that excuse would hold water but it was just the exact same

A draw was the right result. We no where did enough to win in an attacking sense.
I have to constantly say this but I have never said anything personal about slot. I have based my stance solely on preformances and I was starting to ask questions on my discord group back in February last year so it never was some knee jerk reaction that I took and now feel I have stick at..
I simply just hate his style football.. It's bland safety first slow hold the ball football that lacks creativity. It just flopped once we were worked out how to play against.
I watch football to be entertained and watching us now is more of a chore than enjoyment but yeah I'll always still watch hoping that this game will be better but it never is.
If the football wasn't so bad then yeah I would have been willing to support the manager but we are so shockingly bad attacking wise 6 months into the season that it's obvious that it's not going to change

 

[Beamrider]

So, the explanation being given for Wirtz's goal being allowed is that they allow a tolerance of a few mm when doing the tests - essentially based on the TV frame, he was offside but the tolerance level allows the goal anyway.
So, why did the graphic from the semi-automated offside show that he was onside?
Not suggesting conspiracies or anything, but that was an iffy decision, and we'd have gone mental if it had been against us and had cost us points.

 

[Momo]

So, the explanation being given for Wirtz's goal being allowed is that they allow a tolerance of a few mm when doing the tests - essentially based on the TV frame, he was offside but the tolerance level allows the goal anyway.
So, why did the graphic from the semi-automated offside show that he was onside?
Not suggesting conspiracies or anything, but that was an iffy decision, and we'd have gone mental if it had been against us and had cost us points.

The graphic had Wirtz’s foot off the ground. The still when Bradley played the ball shows Wirtz’s foot planted. Something fishy went on.

 

[Frogfish]

Ah ya! Conspiracy theories abound. It's all in the tolerance and which frame was chosen to present. The PL doesn't use the fastest cameras (compared to say Tennis). Nothing to see here.

I also agree with Wenger - a few cms or even inches shouldn't matter. We need to change the offside rule to daylight between them.

 

[mark1975]

I was surprised last night. At the post game interview, Slot said something like he still had the same philosophy even if he didn’t have the players for it.

"I didn't change as a manager. I would love to play with eight attackers if that's possible defensively as well, but if those eight attackers don't defend enough it's hard to win a game of football," said Slot.

"My philosophy of football hasn't changed this year compared to all the seasons I was a manager before. But we have to do it with the players that are available."

What does this mean? Does he adopt to the players he has or does he stay true to his philosophy?

I think he's using injuries as an excuse, I don't think he's saying he's unhappy with the squad, but fuck knows.

 

[Hansern]

We should definitely NOT listen to Wenger and his horrible ideas on how to improve football. All that old piss stained French cunt comes up with is something that will make football much worse.

 

[Momo]

We should definitely NOT listen to Wenger and his horrible ideas on how to improve football. All that old piss stained French cunt comes up with is something that will make football much worse.

It’s gonna be a disaster if that comes in. Most sides will drop even deeper.

 

[jexykrodic]

Given our last 10 games vs Fulham are W4 D4 L2 this is the least surprising result.

Even under our illustrious superhero manager we had trouble with this fixture.

 

[Irishanfield]

I think he's using injuries as an excuse, I don't think he's saying he's unhappy with the squad, but fuck knows.

The simple fact is we shouldnt be taking about whether it was offside or injuries as we didn't create near enough goal scoring chances and especially in the 2nd half after we equalised with us on top.. Possession is great and all that but pointless if you do nothing with it..
This was Fulham ffs, like Leeds and other crapy sides we've struggled with

 

[Hansern]

The slow, ponderous walking style of football have seen us be much better defensively, but its awful to watch and when you're not creating enough big chances you ride the fine margins for results, like yesterday. Thats the 3rd time we drop points from a set piece in injury time. Just not good enough.

Reed's shot was 0,04 xG btw. Still can't believe it went in. He hasn't scored a goal since 2023 but scores a worldie against us after being on the pitch for 1 minute. As said yesterday. Its that kind of season.

 

[darkstarexodus]

So, the explanation being given for Wirtz's goal being allowed is that they allow a tolerance of a few mm when doing the tests - essentially based on the TV frame, he was offside but the tolerance level allows the goal anyway.
So, why did the graphic from the semi-automated offside show that he was onside?
Not suggesting conspiracies or anything, but that was an iffy decision, and we'd have gone mental if it had been against us and had cost us points.

And since the call on the pitch was offside, being within the margin of tolerance should have seen it waved off.

 

[Hansern]

And since the call on the pitch was offside, being within the margin of tolerance should have seen it waved off.

From Dale Johnson's VAR review.

Wirtz looked offside. And he was - just. So why was his goal allowed to stand after a VAR review?

In the first two seasons of VAR there were some very confusing offside decisions. The lines drawn to the defender and the attacker would be on top of each other.

There were many complaints that this was against the spirit of the offside law.

So from the start of the 2021-22 season all leagues added a tolerance level, or benefit of the doubt, of about 5cm to the old offside technology. It meant that if the two lines touched, the player would be given onside regardless of the on-field decision.

This was because of inaccuracies in the technology, like the correct moment the ball has been passed.

In effect a player could now be marginally offside on the technology, but onside when the tolerance level was applied.

At the time, referees' body Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) estimated it could lead to an additional 20 goals a season.

The advent of semi-automated offside technology (SAOT) changed all that. Other leagues, including the top flights in Germany, Spain and Italy, have gone back to offside by the millimetre.

But when the Premier League introduced SAOT it wanted to continue with the tolerance level, to give some leeway to the attacker. That is because there are still questions about treating this new technology as flawless.

It is also why you will get situations like Wirtz, who appears to be just offside, but SAOT will give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Halmeister]

We allow teams to still be in games though going into the last few minutes. We give them hope and we don't create chances to put them away. Every now and then, a set piece or a worldie is going to go in. We bring it on ourselves.

 

[tombrown]

And since the call on the pitch was offside, being within the margin of tolerance should have seen it waved off.

According to the BBC, the original rule (pre semi automated) was:

So from the start of the 2021-22 season all leagues added a tolerance level, or benefit of the doubt, of about 5cm to the old offside technology. It meant that if the two lines touched, the player would be given onside regardless of the on-field decision.

When they introduced SAOT the FA decided to stay with the same tolerance & interpretation.

Why did Florian Wirtz's 'offside' equaliser for Liverpool at Fulham stand?

Florian Wirtz thought his goal for Liverpool in the 2-2 draw at Fulham was offside - so how did technology allow it to stand?

www.bbc.com

EDIT: And then @Hansern posted the same article as I was typing that ...

 

[tombrown]

Anyway, God knows why we are arguing that - it is a (very small) part pay back for that Spurs decision

 

[Dreambeliever]

Respect is earned. Going on the piss for 2 months after winning the league isn't it. Alienating and freezing out players isn't respect. You can be a cunt and win a league you know?

Manager gets slagged off when he deserves to be slagged off. Every single manager has gotten than for as long as football has existed. Don't be getting precious about it now.

He deserves time? Hes had time and he's changed nothing. He's not attempted to change anything. We've gone from freefall to a slightly slower descent. Thank christ everyone else in the league this year fancies being fucking dopes as well.

I didn't realise Slot was a poster and could see we were calling him a cunt. If he's that thin skinned that he can't take criticism then he's in the wrong field.

He probably will be here at the start of next season (mores the pity), but thats not some indicator that he's going to turn it round

That’s just plainly wrong. He’s changed heaps.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I can't understand how people are saying we were impressive in that 2nd half... We had a good 10ish minute spell leading up to the equaliser and after that we went shit again and Fulham were looking more dangerous than us which to be fair wasn't hard

Not everyone who wants him gone calls him a cunt..

He got the respect for winning the league and earned a little leeway with a shit show that happened this season. You have to also realise that for some of us we had issues with how we were playing last season especially from around feb/march so this isn't just based off this season but actually over the course of 12 months..
I dislike his boring slow possession based football with his clueless attacks. It's so bad that it's an actual chore to watch us.. I don't go into games thinking we will win or even create good chances

Having issue with our style of football is fine. A lot of what gets posted here lately is fucking shite and I had come to expect more from a bunch of middle aged men. This place is like reddit at times. It’s very bizarre.

 

[Beamrider]

What they've basically said is that when they did the test, Wirtz was offside "within tolerance", but they then put up a graphic which shows that he's onside.
Which is nuts (and dishonest).
It invites the suggestion that they have fudged the system to give the decision they wanted to give.
And while we're at it, Wirtz's socks were pulled up in the graphic, so they couldn't even get that right! 🤣