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Middle East Violence (content may offend)

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Gerry_A_Trick said:
Given how the US has actually acted in the region over the last half century, it's not surprising they say that. But go ahead, start another war, try get another regime change, that's worked so well in the past.
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Also I'd love your take on why Iran is intent on destroying Israel, if it all revolves around past sins of the western world.

Before the 1979 Islamic revolution, Israel and Iran were best mates and had outstanding relations, and Israel only exists from 1948, so it had no chance to inflict any damage to Iran, such that would amount to Iran having a just cause to hate it in return.

Could it be that Iran only wishes to destroy Israel since it is an evil regime? Nah man I must be hallucinating, there must be good reason for oppressing women, minorities, and denying elections.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
It was all understandable decades ago when we mostly only had the state propoganda to listen to.It's mad and sad, that when there is so much more info available, that people can still support this nonsense. I'm hopeful that the EU can continue to promote dialogue and peace, and not get drawn into this.
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It's messed up right? I look around and there are people of intelligence, capable of rational thought, with values and morals and knowledge of history, who still show cognitive dissonance on this subject.
 
TorresElNino9 said:
Also I'd love your take on why Iran is intent on destroying Israel, if it all revolves around past sins of the western world.

Before the 1979 Islamic revolution, Israel and Iran were best mates and had outstanding relations, and Israel only exists from 1948, so it had no chance to inflict any damage to Iran, such that would amount to Iran having a just cause to hate it in return.

Could it be that Iran only wishes to destroy Israel since it is an evil regime? Nah man I must be hallucinating, there must be good reason for oppressing women, minorities, and denying elections.
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You know how Israel has treated Palestinians for the past 75 years, right?
 
Mamma Mia said:
It's messed up right? I look around and there are people of intelligence, capable of rational thought, with values and morals and knowledge of history, who still show cognitive dissonance on this subject.
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I kind of understand what it must be like to be an Israeli, growing up with their side of the story across media sources and through education and so on, and adding to that, their history, it's understandable to get to that point. But, when given access to, and shown the other side of things, it's hard to see how we get to here.

History is just doomed to repeat itself, even if you know it.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
You know how Israel has treated Palestinians for the past 75 years, right?
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Ah yes well that seems like a constructive approach from the Iranians to better the world and to solve the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
Call for the destruction of Israel, the ruling of Islam over the rest of the world, dictatorship and oppression of political opposition, killing women that left their scarf at home, killing lgbtq folks, and funding terror worldwide.

We should be much more tolerant of all of that obviously😀
Wisdom flows through here, I've never seen anything like this.
Bunch of looney tunes.
 
TorresElNino9 said:
Ah yes well that seems like a constructive approach from the Iranians to better the world and to solve the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
Call for the destruction of Israel, the ruling of Islam over the rest of the world, dictatorship and oppression of political opposition, killing women that left their scarf at home, killing lgbtq folks, and funding terror worldwide.

We should be much more tolerant of all of that obviously😀
Wisdom flows through here, I've never seen anything like this.
Bunch of looney tunes.
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Every agrees that Iran is far from a model country, you don't need to convince anyone of that. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince, or are you just trying to deflect from criticism of Israel?
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
I kind of understand what it must be like to be an Israeli, growing up with their side of the story across media sources and through education and so on, and adding to that, their history, it's understandable to get to that point. But, when given access to, and shown the other side of things, it's hard to see how we get to here.

History is just doomed to repeat itself, even if you know it.
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Thing is I really thought people were better than that.

Seems some people are utterly ok and fine with another holocaust.
Majority are completely apathetic.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Every agrees that Iran is far from a model country, you don't need to convince anyone of that. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince, or are you just trying to deflect from criticism of Israel?
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I'm trying to articulate how mad it is to claim that there is some sort of symmetry between the past actions of western civilization towards the middle east/Muslim world, and the actions of the middle east/Muslim world right now towards western civilization.

Everyone were fucking bonkers in the past; might I remind you that Islam itself started out as a conquering entity, Muhammed himself was a conqueror and a killer (not to mention how fucking mad it is for a religion to be based off a real historical individual and not on a myth), and more importantly, that Islam conquered part of Europe well before Europe/Christianity had done anything to the Islamic world.

The only region that right now in this moment is still aspiring to rule and conquer, that has a backward cultural and moral norms, and that threatens other nations in destruction is the middle eastern/Muslim region.

To even attempt at creating symmetry, or to be apologetic towards that is to actively participate in evil, and in making the world a worse place.
Everyone moved on from past mistakes but them, and they should move on too if peace is to be reached.

This is obviously also relevant for Palestinians and Hamas with some subtle nuances, but I already understood there's no one to talk to on here.
 
TorresElNino9 said:
The only region that right now in this moment is still aspiring to rule and conquer, that has a backward cultural and moral norms, and that threatens other nations in destruction is the middle eastern/Muslim region.
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Are you from real? Only one country is actually ruling and conquering other people., another maybe aspiring to do so, but isn't. You're too far gone I fear.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
I kind of understand what it must be like to be an Israeli, growing up with their side of the story across media sources and through education and so on, and adding to that, their history, it's understandable to get to that point. But, when given access to, and shown the other side of things, it's hard to see how we get to here.
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I'm sorry, but I think you (and others) have repeatedly demonstrated that you do not and this post is a good example of why.

It's not really a case of growing up and understanding the situation through media sources and the education system - that's how you experience it and you're trying to use that as a reference point for others. Israel is a small country, political / situational awareness starts young and the army experience is pervasive in society. So whilst the media plays a part (it does in every society), sure, Israelis have direct lived experience that also informs them.

Israel is a melting pot with many different views and it's certainly not the case that there is no access to "the other side". There is a huge Arab presence in Israeli society (irrespective of status, i.e. Palestinian vs Israeli Arab), there are (or at least were) initiatives to interact with Palestinians (we were taken as part of school) and generally speaking, people just view and act on things differently - my aunt, for example, has been a staunch left wing campaigner since the 70s taking on Palestinian causes many times (she's travels to Gaza border a lot these days protesting against the war).
 
keniget said:
I'm sorry, but I think you (and others) have repeatedly demonstrated that you do not and this post is a good example of why.

It's not really a case of growing up and understanding the situation through media sources and the education system - that's how you experience it and you're trying to use that as a reference point for others. Israel is a small country, political / situational awareness starts young and the army experience is pervasive in society. So whilst the media plays a part (it does in every society), sure, Israelis have direct lived experience that also informs them.

Israel is a melting pot with many different views and it's certainly not the case that there is no access to "the other side". There is a huge Arab presence in Israeli society (irrespective of status, i.e. Palestinian vs Israeli Arab), there are (or at least were) initiatives to interact with Palestinians (we were taken as part of school) and generally speaking, people just view and act on things differently - my aunt, for example, has been a staunch left wing campaigner since the 70s taking on Palestinian causes many times (she's travels to Gaza border a lot these days protesting against the war).
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Sorry, yes, of course it's not all, it never can be. Nothing is black and white. But, Netanyahu has been in power for much of the last 20 years, and repeatedly voted in, so I think we can safely safe that a majority support him?

I was more talking about growing up with a biased view of history, almost everyone has that, everyone grows up with their own country and groups and allies being the good guys, and others being the bad guys, it's not unique.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Sorry, yes, of course it's not all, it never can be. Nothing is black and white. But, Netanyahu has been in power for much of the last 20 years, and repeatedly voted in, so I think we can safely safe that a majority support him?

I was more talking about growing up with a biased view of history, almost everyone has that, everyone grows up with their own country and groups and allies being the good guys, and others being the bad guys, it's not unique.
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More naunce is required here.

The Netanyahu of 20 odd years ago is not the Netanyahu of today.

The Netanyahu of today is hated by many along with family, his wife, in particular, who regularly gets hit pieces in the media (speaking of). It's not unlike the Brexit situation here or the Maga / Trump shit that American's have to deal with. It's deeply divided the country and there is a substantial percentage of the population that want him (and his wife) in jail or worse. Unfortunately, the lack of good opposition candidates (should sound familiar) and other factors have kept him in power.
 
keniget said:
More naunce is required here.

The Netanyahu of 20 odd years ago is not the Netanyahu of today.

The Netanyahu of today is hated by many along with family, his wife, in particular, who regularly gets hit pieces in the media (speaking of). It's not unlike the Brexit situation here or the Maga / Trump shit that American's have to deal with. It's deeply divided the country and there is a substantial percentage of the population that want him (and his wife) in jail or worse. Unfortunately, the lack of good opposition candidates (should sound familiar) and other factors have kept him in power.
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The Netanyahu of 20 years ago, lied point blank about Iraq having WMDs, and was a large part of the reason that war kicked off. I don't think he was particularly great, but admittedly he's worse now.
 
Just had the misfortune of listening to Hegseth statement.
Just gushing over Trump for majority of it.
A tiny bit about how great murica is.
Then more Trump is so strong and powerful and amazing.
 
Labour can fuck off. Same shit took us into Iraq. Fiscal black hole but war is sound. Fucking cunt.
 
LarryHagman said:
Iran hasn't got any WMDs. Israel knows that, US knows that.

If Starmer shows one iota of support for this, please don't ever forget.
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It'll be forgotten next week cos there'll be some other fucking catastrophic event that happens and we all forget and move on.
 
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